Is it worth the time to play for a HS team that is horrible?

By the way Sam, I forgot to say that there is some benefit to even bad HS ball because they are at least practicing everyday.  Your son will be able to throw, hit and work out with his friends every day during the week, which will make him better. 

Questions you might ask:  Are you being realistic in your assessment of your daughter's skill level?  What are her goals and are they truly her goals?  Are looking for a pay to play team or are you truly looking for a team and coach that develops and challenges her skill  level?

We first ran across a young kid in (5th Ward) Houston that played on the worst team in Houston.  Maybe the worst team in all of Texas.  He has since become a multimillionaire and currently plays for The LA Dodgers.  Carl Crawford would have been a football or basketball player now, had he not played for his terrible high school baseball team.

PG, exactly the point.  There was a LHP in Bum, Jr.'s hometown (a year behind him).  His team I think won two or three games in two years.  He himself had a horrible win-loss record because he had no defense and no run support.  His senior year he struck out 20 guys in a game and was one out from tying Bum, Jr.'s state record!  There were scouts at every game who didn't give a dang about the score, the terrible team or the pitcher's win/loss record or ERA.  He was offered a full ride to a D1 and ended up drafted fairly high out of h.s. and went pro where he's doing well.

 

Scouts aren't stupid, baseball people talk.  If there's talent they'll sniff it out.

 

I think the OP's son should play for his HS team and love every minute of it. Many prior posts have pointed to very good reasons for it. Standards and goals will need to be reassessed and adjusted, but there are so many redeeming qualities about a truly talented player supporting his HS teammates. I think of a 'Golden Thread' about a pitcher who is obviously talented, but having a very difficult outing with the defense behind him. There are scouts in the stands. He never showed anybody up or reacted negatively. He showed tremendous support for his teammates and competed, let them know that he was going to work hard and only wanted that from them. His positive attitude and leadership stood out like a sore thumb. Character is one of the 6th tools and this might be a great opportunity for a kid to take advantage of. Someone brought up the example of becoming a role model for the younger kids in the community. This is the kind of stuff that cannot be bought. If he's going to attend this HS, he SHOULD play for them.

Very few, if any of us are able to work in an ideal environment. Personalities are difficult, some economies are tough, customers are demanding, etc., etc., etc. We have to be able to find positives and work towards a goal that makes a situation or our surroundings better. That starts at the high school age, if not earlier.

Sit down and list every positive and negative imaginable and discuss it with your son. I bet the positive list is longer and far more rewarding. Then ask your son if he wants to trade 30 years with you and have no HS baseball memories. I wouldn't. Good luck to you both.

One more good reason to play that has not been mentioned.  Girls love high school baseball players!   (just adding a little levity to this topic)

So there is a chance for some who don't play in the showcases and travel program? 

Absolutely, 548!  In fact, Bum, Jr. met his h.s. sweetheart after she broke up with another player on his h.s. team.  (Not to worry, he and the other boy are great friends.)  I met her the first time at a h.s. game--she was friend of another girl he was dating whom I first met at a h.s. game.  Being the stud on the h.s. team pays dividends!  (And the girls aren't watching the score.  ) 

....it's not like any scouts or anyone else in the baseball world even notices this school....40 minutes down the road, we have two high schools that are top in the state...playing there will get you some name recognition (not an option for us to send him there...different county)....not so much at our school.  

Sam - welcome.  This comment and others makes me think your son might consider spending his time doing something other than baseball.  The reason you play baseball is to play baseball - not to be practicing in the batting cages or getting instructions from some ex-pro pitcher.  You don't play because of who might be watching.  You play because you like to play.  You get better by playing the game.  If you are the shortstop on a losing team, you learn how to handle bad-hops and how to make diving stops in the hole when they are teeing off on your lousy pitchers.  If you are the pitcher on a losing team, those live hitters are much better practice than throwing pens in front of a paid professional who may be stroking your ego to keep the dollars flowing.  Kids who love baseball want to play - not practice.  If practice is so hyper-important, then he can practice in addition to playing on the high school team.

 

Your analogy between picking between a losing summer team and a winning one is non-analogous here.  In the summer, the kid/family picks the team.  In high school you are stuck with the high school team you have - there is no picking.  If you are suggesting picking between practice and playing, then in my mind there is no alternative for a ball "player."  Playing is the only pick.  There is no such thing as a ball showcaser or ball practicer if your goal and passion is for the game of playing baseball.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting discussion. My sons school has a very strong program & lots of resources. Several in his 9th grade class transferred in due to program not to mention it's also a top academic school. On the flip side; one of my sons friends transferred to a nearby school with a horrible program. Kid was struggling in the classroom & doubtful he would have made team here; they were glad to get him. Although schools are similar in size they have to recruit within their school to fill JV & Varsity rosters. Kid has turned it around academically & will probably get significant playing time on JV as a freshman. It's going to be a horrible team but worked out well for him. Program has always been bad but they did have a guy come through that went on & played a few seasons of Major League Baseball (no, not just in the minors); my son takes lessons from the guy. This goes to show talent can still shine bad program or not.

 

That was an excellent post ClevelandDad.

 

In my 50 years of life I've learned a few things.  To be a very good baseball player you have to experience the game many, many, many times.  The more reps you get the better you will be.  That alone should lead your son towards his HS team.

 

With my son, his team is also historically weak.  They are usually well below .500. But he will change that.  It will take 2 or 3 years, but there will be a difference.  He works hard in practice and he will teach the others to do the same.  He will be a leader on that team as it is his nature.  Do I think that he'll lead them to a state championship?  No.  That's not very likely at all.  But by the time he graduates they will be a better team.  

Samiam,

My 2016 and I were in a similar situation but with a twist. He 's a freakin' laxer. Now before you shut my account down this is what happened. As a 7th grader he was asked to play lax for his middle school. He was on the post LL travel circuit and but the spring was open so he thought, "why not". He went to the MS baseball coach and ask if he would allow him to miss 2 out of 5 practices a week so he could go to the 2 lax practices. There were never any game conflicts. He would make up by going to his travel team practices for they met twice a week anyway. No way was the response. And that was a really bad team. He was the only player who played travel. Ok so its only MS so he opted for lax. Liked the contact and the guys. Next year he makes JV lax (we aren't a spectacularly athletic school either). OK so now we are in 9th grade. He makes varsity and starts over 1/2 the games. Again we aren't great but we aren't horrible. Baseball is. They have no off season work. 2016 hits 48 weeks a year and played pretty competitive travel but stayed in Mid Atlantic, no PG yet but that is coming up in 2014. So this past summer we know the s is about to hit the fan for our travel coach is riding 2016 pretty hard about playing lax in the 9th grade. At VMI I asked Coach Eik what would happen if he did not play HS ball but played summer & fall travel. His response was succinct and very helpful. "We love athletes. I prefer players who played multiple sports BUT he must play at least one year of HS ball. Not because we will see him but because we need to know he did."He went on to say that whether the team was bad or not was not an issue for him.

My son is better friends with his lax teammates but he loves baseball and has a better shot there than in lacrosse. He has played on bad teams in LL and had a great experience. We played our last fall ball game Monday night and damn near froze. Our team played almost as bad as one can play. He did his job, had fun and got asked to tryout for our Legion team which is really good. Good things can happen even on bad teams. So to wind up my last post before being banned for having an affair with lacrosse, 2016 decided to drop JV basketball & lacrosse and to play for what has been a very bad hs baseball team for years. His call. I will miss lax although he will continue to play on free weekends. He knows his path and will have no regrets. And he will be speaking to me when it's all over.

runit, Lacrosse is fine but if you mention that sport with the checkered round ball you'll be 86'd quicker than Miley Cyrus in a tongue measuring contest.

My son must play for the same coach as JH.  He doesn't know the game, pits players against each other, is verbally abusive and none of his former players can stand him.  But like JH they love the game, they love playing for each other and they took a team he labeled preseason as one without the usual talent to the best record in school history.  My son has learned plenty of lessons.  His goal is to be a coach someday because he wants to insure other kids have a positive role model.  The players came together despite the coach not because of him.  High School baseball has many lessons to teach that you will not replicate at any other level.  My son would do whatever it took just to play and his attitude would be to make the team better.  Take you situation and make the best of it if you love the game.

Great post.  One that I wish I would have read and understood about 5 yrs ago.

Play!  We have an average coach and an average team – but we LOVE HS baseball!

 

Two of the coolest things:

 

It’s free.

 

I don’t have to drive 500 miles and stay in a hotel to watch a ball game.

I love free!

I'll say this much.  If you ask my son, what he'll remember most - HS or travel or legion - he'll definitely tell you HS. 

Why?  Bear with me.  Son makes the varsity squad his sophomore year - that year a new coach was hired.  The previous year the team was horrible.  Poor coaching.  Talented players, but most had poor attitudes due to the coaching.  Finished the seaon 5-14 with 2 of those wins by forfeit.  During the next 3 seasons the baseball team made the playoffs twice.  His senior year was great - the team finished in a 3 way tie for first place in the district and won the district championship.  Went on to be Regional Runner Ups and a spot in the state tournament.  Farthest any baseball team from the school had gone.  The real reason he'll remember HS over travel is with his HS team trailing by one run in the district championship game, he hit the clutch double with 2 outs in the bottom of the 7th to drive in the tying run.  It really doesn't get any better than that.

 

So had he not played HS basball due to a "horrible" team the previous year, he would have missed one of the grandest moments in his life.  So in answer to the OP, yes, it is worth it.   Your son could be the one to make a difference.  You just don't know.

FoxDad, you bring up a great point.  Looking back on Bum, Jr.'s h.s. career I can barely remember the details of any of the travel games, but the high school games!  I remember both no-hitters he tossed, his 21-strikeout game, his state player of the year award, his only homerun, the parents, the players, and his 8-inning performance in 100-degree heat where he left with a 2-2 tie.. only to lose with a relief pitcher.. and if we would have won we'd be in the final 4 at Safeco Field in Seattle.  Heartbreak.  And Glory.  And School Honor.

 

Travel ball is for exposure and development.  High school is for what counts.

With apologies to all who have posted, I'm not gonna read all of them...and go straight to the OP's question.

 

Not only yes, but he!! yes you should play for your HS team.  Period.

 

(Ok, I admit it, I read CD's post...spot on CD!)  

justbaseball-AMEN

 Bum - I think you hit the nail on the head.  I can visually remember my son's senior year as they worked their way through the season and headed for the playoffs.  There was just something magical about that team.  The heartbreak of watching them lose in the state quarterfinal when they were two outs away from heading to the final four.

 

Travel ball - not so much except the trip to Cooperstown many years before.

It's funny. As much as I almost wish the HS baseball experience is what JP will remember most -- for the reasons Bum so eloquently articulates -- it won't be.

 

I think that just like a lot of young ball players these days, he prefers the tougher competition that travel ball has always brought.

 

After competing everywhere from Colorado Springs to Cooperstown as a boy ... and now East Cobb to Jupiter as a young man ... he truly defines himself as a ball player by these experiences -- not high school.

 

HS baseball is good -- and by all means, I believe ALL young ball players should play for their HS team, no matter how good or bad it is. 

 

But for better or worse, I suspect many young men are like JP: They view HS baseball as warmup to the real thing -- which happens in the summer.

 

 

 

I think you're right JP, and it irks me a bit because now I am a HS baseball coach.  I did the travel scene extensively from 8-17 years old and it helped me get seen for college. Looking back, I definitely remember HS more fondly because that was my true "team" and friends-memories I'll never forget.  Travel was always tougher competition, but it was a bit more means to an end thing-strictly getting looks.

 

I realize my career now as put me in the position to being irked by the notion of HS ball being "just a preseason" for some guys.  To us, the coaching staff, our HS season is not a preseason.  It is everything we do and prepare for, for helping our young men.  Our job is not to get our players seen by colleges, our job is to get our program to win a state championship and help mold these kids into the best ball players that we can.  

 

Every year I hear whispers by some guys about how they can't wait for travel.  It takes alot for me not to flip out. I definitely understand it-I was there too.  Traveling to huge tournaments, playing in incredible venues in front of scouts...it's once in a lifetime stuff.

 

But if a player is going to play HS baseball, they should be putting everything they have into it. Not just warming up to be ready for travel. Which is really a whole different topic and thread....

Just want to chime in with a LOUD AMEN to what Bum said. High School Ball is what counts!!!

James:

 

I didn't mean to imply that just because it's likely my son will look back on travel and summer ball more fondly ... that he doesn't give his ALL in HS. He absolutely DOES -- and I don't think he's unique.

 

It's not an either-or equation. These young men can give everything the have to both, cant they?

 

And in fact, for many, HS is where they can be viewed as huge studs -- and that's cool.

 

All I'm saying is that THEY know (and they're right -- evidenced by your comment that it's not your job to get them seen by colleges) that if they WANT to get to the next level, they'd better be studs against the stronger competition in the summer.

 

And THAT'S what motivates them the most -- at least my son.

 

Anyway ... I pray HS baseball never goes away ... and that people like you continue to help these young men.

Wait until son is out of high school.  Many of us with sons who have moved on can recite the honors of ex-parte high school baseball.  I know Bum, Jr. can.  Junior National Showcase.  World Showcase.  Seattle Mariner Cup and competing at Safeco Field.  Pitching at Minute Maid Park.  Throwing his team's first no-hitter in front of thousands of fans in the Northwoods league.  The wonder of minor-league baseball.

 

I would trade it all for the first day I took him to h.s. practice as a freshman.

 

Maybe you will never understand this sentiment, JP.  But if you ever do, it will mean your son has arrived.

 

 

Originally Posted by jp24:

…I think that just like a lot of young ball players these days, he prefers the tougher competition that travel ball has always brought….

 

With all due respect, I think you’re the one who’s preferences are showing.

The problem with high school baseball is it is not long enough.  

Not sure about other states, but in Virginia (VHSL) the regular season is limited to 20 games max.  It is what it is.

I think you are not being fair to JP. What my 2016 likes about his travel team is that everyone lays it out on every play. No walking, no bitching, no jerking around during the game because they are all focused on the same thing. They don't win every weekend but they play really hard. HS not so much, but then our HS really isn't able to cut as we are lucky to have 35 come out for V & JV. But I think it is apples & oranges and if you are a PLAYER you do your job regardless of what the team is doing. You stay a lot happier that way. I think if my son was playing for some of the coaches who have posted on here the differences would not be as obvious.

My kid plays for a very marginal HS team, with a marginal HS coach.  There is no way in the world he would forgo playing in HS.  It is about so much more than just baseball. He puts everything into the season, takes every loss personally.  Going into his SR year he knows he will carry a heavy burden on the mound in the District games....and he can't wait.  While there is not a lot of scouting in HS unless your that pre-draft stud, which in our area there are only a couple and not every year, it was a HS game where he was brought into a cross town rivalry game unexpectedly to pitch.  Just happened the other team had a first round draft potential and there were about 30 scouts there....son shut the team down and our team won....first time we had beat them in I can't tell you how many years.  A lot of good things happened for him at after that outing...don't think he, or the rest of his teammates, will ever forget

that game.  His team fights hard every game, they all care.  It does not matter if they are a sub 500 team or go undefeated, they all love it the atmoshphere and there is no way you could convince them otherwise.

Stats, why do you say that?

 

Why can't the kid of Poster 1 prefer his high school experience and the kid of Poster 2 prefer his travel ball experience?

 

I mean, we are not talking facts here, we are talking feelings and emotions. I know I am not in a position to say someone else's feelings and emotions are wrong or invalid because they don't line up with mine.

Stats, with all due respect, you're projecting, my friend. NOTHING could be further from the truth. But I can see where dads who let THEIR preferences override their sons' would think that. Sorry it went that way for you. At least you get it now.

going back to the original guy who I think said it was a horrible situation and seeing stuff about a team being below 500 or only 35 kids come out for jv and varsity...that is not horrible.  Horrible might be only 2 kids come out to practice above the 8th grade and you have to beg 7 other kids to play who can'T play. The infield dirt may be covered in grass and you think things look a little off so you measure the bases at 84 feet.  Because the 7 kids dont care enough to show up you end up playing about 5 games and cannot play in any tournament.  Now my kid will be out there to make the most of whatever we can piece together but to say he has not arrived because he enjoys summer and fall ball better than this mess is not right.

JP-I got you. I agree that kids should be able to put their all into both.  I didn't think you were implying that your son doesn't.  Sorry for any confusion.  We're on the same page...and thanks for the kind words.

Why compare HS and travel ball?  Both are great!  Is it really important as to which one someone thinks is better?  Truth is the vast majority of the top level players play both! And they enjoy both!  IMO HS baseball is extra special in many ways.  Winning is always important, but there are so many other things that make HS baseball a "must" experience for most everyone.  Something wrong when one of the best players walks the halls of his school and doesn't play for the school.  But to each his own! Can't speak for everyone without being in their shoes.

I don't understand why a different talent level determines which is more important ball. My son approached every game regardless of high school or travel the same way. He was just on base more in high school. Ten players from his junior year team went on to college ball. The twenty years previous to his soph year the program stunk. He's still friends with some of his high school teammates. He's still friends with some of his travel teammates.

 

Is a kid going to get to college ball and claim playing in the Cape Cod League is more relevant than college ball because he wants to go pro? I don't think so. Players play because they love the game. How far they go is because they love the game not high school versus travel.

I've been in the HS baseball circle for over ten years and I've never heard of a program continuing when the numbers are that low.  That's when you cancel and regroup for next year.  I think that's well beyond what any of us are talking about here.  Hats off to your kid.

Originally Posted by runitout:

I think you are not being fair to JP. What my 2016 likes about his travel team is that everyone lays it out on every play. No walking, no bitching, no jerking around during the game because they are all focused on the same thing.

 

Be thee careful when you make broad statements like those.

 

They don't win every weekend but they play really hard. HS not so much, but then our HS really isn't able to cut as we are lucky to have 35 come out for V & JV. But I think it is apples & oranges and if you are a PLAYER you do your job regardless of what the team is doing. You stay a lot happier that way. I think if my son was playing for some of the coaches who have posted on here the differences would not be as obvious.

 

I’m honestly sorry your son’s HS program is so poor the coaches are able to get the boys to play hard. I wish you could see our team, the HS teams we play, and I daresay most HS team across the country though, because I believe you’d see something very different than what you’re used to.

 

I’m guessing what you’re really doing is confusing how competitive a team is with the level of skills of its players and coaches. Some of the most competitive games I’ve ever seen have been with two lousy teams playing each other. What makes it competitive, is that the two teams are pretty equal.