Is it assumed that a player going to a Juco will be there for 2 years, or is the goal simply to get appealing offers first year? I imagine it depends some on the coach, but is it generally frowned upon to be a one and done? How does a player approach asking a coach this question?
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IMO, it depends entirely on the coach. Some coaches build their program on a reputation of moving guys along as quickly as possible. Some expect you to stay 2 years. But even within the ASAP guys, there are coaches who will encourage you to stay for the second year if they think "better" offers will be coming. (They value transfers to D1 over D2/D3 because they think it's better for their recruiting efforts.)
I think if you transfer after the 1st year, without graduating, you will sit out a year.
RoadRunner posted:I think if you transfer after the 1st year, without graduating, you will sit out a year.
That is not the case.
adbono posted:RoadRunner posted:I think if you transfer after the 1st year, without graduating, you will sit out a year.
That is not the case.
Players who transfer to an NCAA institution from a junior college after one year do not have to sit out a year at the 4-year program.
Prepster posted:adbono posted:RoadRunner posted:I think if you transfer after the 1st year, without graduating, you will sit out a year.
That is not the case.
Players who transfer to an NCAA institution from a junior college after one year do not have to sit out a year at the 4-year program.
Thank you for correcting my ignorance. So is there any circumstance where a JUCO transfers and has to sit out?
But there are eligibility requirements (# of semester units completed, GPA, etc.) and other things like getting proper clearance to talk to other schools that often come into play.
RoadRunner posted:Prepster posted:adbono posted:RoadRunner posted:I think if you transfer after the 1st year, without graduating, you will sit out a year.
That is not the case.
Players who transfer to an NCAA institution from a junior college after one year do not have to sit out a year at the 4-year program.
Thank you for correcting my ignorance. So is there any circumstance where a JUCO transfers and has to sit out?
I think you may be referring to an NCAA academic non-qualifier. If the student never registered with the NCAA Eligibility Center, or registered but didn't meet the minimum requirements to be a "qualifier", then they would typically have to graduate from the juco before being eligible at NCAA D1.
2019;
Question: why did you select this JC program? Was it the Coach, a "stepping stone", a winning team, a learning opportunity, the education or maybe the player is not ready for Division 1 team.
Place yourself in the Coaches shoes. He expects players to remain loyal for 2 years as he builds his program. He and his coaches expended many hours teaching a preparing his players for their next step. Be prepared for a disappointment, if the Coach learns that your son is for one year "rental".
Bob
In order to transfer JuCo to a four year after one year the player has to be NCAA eligible out of high school.
Consultant posted:2019;
Question: why did you select this JC program? Was it the Coach, a "stepping stone", a winning team, a learning opportunity, the education or maybe the player is not ready for Division 1 team.
Place yourself in the Coaches shoes. He expects players to remain loyal for 2 years as he builds his program. He and his coaches expended many hours teaching a preparing his players for their next step. Be prepared for a disappointment, if the Coach learns that your son is for one year "rental".
Bob
With more and more high schools offering concurrent classes, the JUCO's better get used to having a player for a year. My son will have 21-30 hours of college credit when he graduates high school. My daughter is 13 and as of right now she will be able to take 42 hours in high school if she wants. That number will probably be close to 60 by the time she graduates.
d-mac posted:Consultant posted:2019;
Question: why did you select this JC program? Was it the Coach, a "stepping stone", a winning team, a learning opportunity, the education or maybe the player is not ready for Division 1 team.
Place yourself in the Coaches shoes. He expects players to remain loyal for 2 years as he builds his program. He and his coaches expended many hours teaching a preparing his players for their next step. Be prepared for a disappointment, if the Coach learns that your son is for one year "rental".
Bob
With more and more high schools offering concurrent classes, the JUCO's better get used to having a player for a year. My son will have 21-30 hours of college credit when he graduates high school. My daughter is 13 and as of right now she will be able to take 42 hours in high school if she wants. That number will probably be close to 60 by the time she graduates.
To your point, if a kid goes to a high academic HS and accumulates a lot of college credits along the way it limits the number of JUCO schools that are a good fit academically. You have to do your homework. All JUCOs are not created equal. Some are much better academically than others. You can find academic rankings for JUCOs if you look hard enough.
My 2018 went into a 4-year as a sophomore. He explored good baseball JUCOs, but couldn't find anyone who would accommodate his academics.
I had never thought about that....my daughter had enough college credit coming out of HS that I'm not sure she would have been able to go to a JUCO....not sure what classes she could have taken that she didn't already have. If a HS baseball player is in that same situation, would there be a possibility that a JUCO just wouldn't work?
RJM posted:In order to transfer JuCo to a four year after one year the player has to be NCAA eligible out of high school.
Thank you, RJM. I know I have seen several D1 rosters, having JUCO players with bios that said they had to sit out per NCAA transfer rules. Now I know why. I really thought all of them had to sit, unless they spent 2 years or the equivalent. Thanks all for clearing it up🙂
"Place yourself in the Coaches shoes. He expects players to remain loyal for 2 years as he builds his program. He and his coaches expended many hours teaching a preparing his players for their next step. Be prepared for a disappointment, if the Coach learns that your son is for one year "rental"."
I disagree, you need to do what is best for yourself. Coaches know what they're getting into, especially at a JUCO. If the goal is to move on to a 4yr school or get drafted, and the opportunity is available, why wait another year? With all the freshman that end up leaving the program after the first semester (grades, discipline, homesick, playing time, injury, etc) I'd be looking to find a D1 program for the spring semester if possible.
@Consultant Put yourself in the shoes of the player. If he performs poorly is he guaranteed a spot, much less playing time the following year? Is all the time put into the program on his end not valuable? Giving some of his best physical years, not to mention entrusting their dream of pro baseball to that coach. Would a 4 year player also be frowned upon for going into the draft after 3? Or were they not loyal to the coach and program? After all, they're simply looking to take the next step up at the expense of the 4 years team. Reading this website more and more it seems like an everyman for themselves culture in d1 ball. Perhaps college, at least baseball, is much more "real world" then some might assume.
PABaseball posted:"Place yourself in the Coaches shoes. He expects players to remain loyal for 2 years as he builds his program. He and his coaches expended many hours teaching a preparing his players for their next step. Be prepared for a disappointment, if the Coach learns that your son is for one year "rental"."
I disagree, you need to do what is best for yourself. Coaches know what they're getting into, especially at a JUCO. If the goal is to move on to a 4yr school or get drafted, and the opportunity is available, why wait another year? With all the freshman that end up leaving the program after the first semester (grades, discipline, homesick, playing time, injury, etc) I'd be looking to find a D1 program for the spring semester if possible.
You can disagree all you want but Bob is telling you how it is, and he is right. What you (and 2019OF) don't seem to understand is that once your son commits to a JUCO program, from that point going forward, the person that has the best chance of advancing him to a 4 year school is his JUCO HC. So you better not piss him off early on by showing up with a "me mentality." If a kid has a career year as a freshman and a D1 comes calling (which happens but not very often) the first person that D1 will contact is the JUCO HC - not the player. If that were to happen you need the JUCO HC to say good things - or the deal can die on the vine. If someone is contacting D1 schools trying to facilitate a transfer after one year (player, parent, etc,) you better believe that it will get back to the JUCO HC. And when it does its church for that player. You need to stay in a cooperative mode with your HC if you are a JUCO player as he is the person that can help you (or hurt you) the most. Its a big mistake to underestimate the influence of your JUCO HC.
Yeah, you can rationalize all you want that the player SHOULD have leverage and SHOULD do what's best for himself and how the college SHOULD be a stepping stone to next level but none of that is the typical reality of day-to-day college baseball once the player lands on campus, JC or 4 yr. The HC has the leverage and you better be all about the team. AND you better perform. If, and only if, that all works out well, then the HC can help you along to your next step.
I just spoke to a very upset mom yesterday. College freshman son was recruited to a 4 yr, told he would have a roster spot, told that the HC protects his freshmen, was just cut after a slew of transfers came in and even after the coach cut him, HC was still pushing leverage buttons, telling the player he wanted him to go to XYZ JC and do the dual-enrollment thing. HC has nothing to lose. This is a good player that has very little leverage at this point. Transferring elsewhere comes at significant cost and turmoil.
Oh, and BTW, the kid that plays his position at the JC, should this player decide to go ahead with the dual enrollment... about to experience the same.
Back to the OP question, there are special circumstances where there may be something agreed on in advance or the player just absolutely goes off as a frosh where it is clear that he should be moving on. There are also some JC's where the HC is OK with players moving on after one year if the opportunity presents itself. But those are the exception.
"What you (and 2019OF) don't seem to understand is that once your son commits to a JUCO program, from that point going forward, the person that has the best chance of advancing him to a 4 year school is his JUCO HC. So you better not piss him off early on by showing up with a "me mentality."
I do understand, I'm not suggesting burning the coach or having a poor attitude. Go there, be all about the team, assume you are going to be there for two full years. But don't decline offers and interest from schools of your caliber out of loyalty to a coach. The goal is to get to a 4yr school and to get players to 4yr schools. Any coach who doesn't want you taking offers after year one is selfish and is not somebody worth being loyal to. Unless they think you can do better and can hold out for better offers. But if an ACC school called in December and said 2 scholarship players left already, we saw some of your fall games and want to offer you $$$ - you'd have a hard time convincing me not to go.
PABaseball posted:"What you (and 2019OF) don't seem to understand is that once your son commits to a JUCO program, from that point going forward, the person that has the best chance of advancing him to a 4 year school is his JUCO HC. So you better not piss him off early on by showing up with a "me mentality."
I do understand, I'm not suggesting burning the coach or having a poor attitude. Go there, be all about the team, assume you are going to be there for two full years. But don't decline offers and interest from schools of your caliber out of loyalty to a coach. The goal is to get to a 4yr school and to get players to 4yr schools. Any coach who doesn't want you taking offers after year one is selfish and is not somebody worth being loyal to. Unless they think you can do better and can hold out for better offers. But if an ACC school called in December and said 2 scholarship players left already, we saw some of your fall games and want to offer you $$$ - you'd have a hard time convincing me not to go.
No freshman is getting recruited from a JUCO to a D1 in December based on his performance in the fall. Not gonna happen.
I have also seen a lot of guys transferring jucos after a year
D.C. Baseball posted:I have also seen a lot of guys transferring jucos after a year
Do you mean from one JC to another? If so, absolutely. But, I think the vast majority of this type of movement is because the player isn't getting the PT he thought he would and is getting some signals that is likely to be the case again the second year. Or, player was "encouraged" to redshirt/greyshirt freshman year and starts to get the picture of where that really leaves him going forward with this program. These instances definitely happen but I don't think that is the nature of the OP's question.
My son was a one and done at a D1 JUCO, but only because his coach left. The D1 he signed with for his soph season said they wouldn't have touched him if his coach was still there, but because he left it was open season. He actually had 5 offers. Another D1 coach offered him a scholarship during the season for his soph year and the head coach was not happy. This was in 2011, I assume things are still the same.
One reason that more players don't move on from JC after one year, is that the D-1, D-II, etc. coaches do not want to create any potential issues with the JC coach. Relationships are critical in that business, and if a D-1 swoops in and takes a kid after one year, it can cause relationship issues. A lot of these schools rely on these JC's to develop feeder kids for their program, and they need to be careful not to endanger future feeders to their program.
2019:
Is your son a SS, a pitcher, a catcher? Did he have a strong summer season and HS season? How was he selected by the JC Coach? Was he invited to the Area Code tryouts?
Pro scouts obtain information from College coaches, personal and physical.
Bob
The biggest difference between the real world seems to be in the real world when it is obvious a business is done with you, you can decide to move on. In college they just kick you to the curb but don't let you move on. It really is a sh!tty system.
old_school posted:The biggest difference between the real world seems to be in the real world when it is obvious a business is done with you, you can decide to move on. In college they just kick you to the curb but don't let you move on. It really is a sh!tty system.
There is the option to not participate.
I have found that most JUCO's fit into one of two categories for baseball/softball. They are either a 2 year school and have that expectation of their players or they are a feeder system for major D1's and MLB. If they are the first then they think the player should stay two years no matter what. If they are a feeder system, they go for the best players who did not get into major D1 or those who were not happy with draft standing and get them even if it is for 1 year. Their claim to fame is that they can get players to major D1's or MLB. They win a lot but normally are not the best developers. They just recruit the best players and have a proven track record that they can move kids up the ladder. Just know the downfall of these programs is they normally have a lot of players and if you are not the big dog your view from the bench is not a pretty one. They play a lot of game and get a lot of exposure but the next year they are recruiting a new class of studs. I tell kids and parents all the time when they talk JUCO that there are two groups and make sure you fit into the right group. If you are wanting to use it as a stepping stone then you better pick the right one and if you are not the stud you better pick the right one.
Also, take a look at the NJCAA. There are 3 "classifications", just like 4 yr schools: D1, DII, DIII...JC's can be a good transition for some kids.
Look at rosters for DI's your son is primarily interested in to see who came from where...
