Is parent coaching/teaching the norm for exceptional HS success?

I would suggest that the impression you get here may be skewed by the fact that a lot of the posters are the same guys who coached their own sons.

I do think it's kind of natural that if dad had some baseball ability and dad accumulated knowledge of the game, then son might have both genetic advantages and advantages in learning the game.

But off our youth travel team, there were 4 kids who ended up with D-1 deals whose fathers never coached them, at least not beyond playing catch in the back yard.

So while having the knowledgeable dad might be an advantage, there are certainly other ways to get there.

I might also add that for every kid I've seen who benefited from his dad's involvement, I've probably seen 3 whose prospects were harmed by it. So it can work in either direction.

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So while having the knowledgeable dad might be an advantage, there are certainly other ways to get there.

I might also add that for every kid I've seen who benefited from his dad's involvement, I've probably seen 3 whose prospects were harmed by it. So it can work in either direction.

I agree with both statements. I might add that an involved MOTHER can be just as effective as an involved dad.

I believe that talent trumps everything, and that kids are born with the top of the pack talent. You can have a catch or throw batting practice until the cows come home but if the kid does not have natural talent he will not be at the top of the list.
And I absolutely believe that coaching your own kid on any rec or travel team has nothing to do with the kid being a player. I don't even see a relationship between the two. Are you saying that if your son was coached by anyone else he would not be as good as he is with you coaching him. Bulls... What does coaching have to do with natural ability. Most fathers are not knowledgable enough to teach his kid the finer points of getting better. I would leave that to a professional instructor.
I never coached my son on any of his travel teams. I never played organized baseball in my life. Yet my son has always been one of the top players in his age group in our region. He now plays on a regional team that competes nationally. All I did was donate my genes ( isn't he lucky) and work with him the best I could. He has gotten better each year do to the work he does every winter at a local baseball academy.
Alot of parents want to take credit for there childs successes. Why not let the kid's take the credit they earn and us parents can stay in the background and provide any support they need or want.

Thanks for not leaving us Moms out Fungo!

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Originally posted by BBfam:
Thanks for not leaving us Moms out Fungo!

Yes, thanks Fungo.

My husband coached my son until 10 and that was it. He was the one who taught him about pitching and hitting and to love the game. He spent more time with him at ballparks than the field, which I feel was instrumental in his development, explaining what the pitcher was throwing and why, etc. In other words more about the game then anything else. By 11,12 there wasn't anything he didn't know or understand. When to throw on what count, what pitch to look for as a hitter, etc. My husband just didn't think he was a good coach. He gives himself credit for nothing.

Then son was on his own, never a paid pitching lesson, his ability and game knowledge took him where he wanted to go.

I do strongly beleive that talent is very important, but so is understanding and executing the game. Not all players can do that, no matter who coaches them.

Dad's can have a lot of knowledge but that doesn't make them good coaches. Some feel they can't let go and somehow have to be involved in the game with their sons. I have seen many examples of what Midlo speaks of. In our area we had a top pitcher for many years who dominated, his father coaching him all the way through HS.I beleive his father groomed him to be a professional ballplayer.The team stunk. I am not sure ho good of a pitching coach he actually was. By the time draft day rolled around in HS he was not drafted ended up going to a small D1 college and recently drafted in later rounds. I have also seen a former MLB do the same with his son (not a pitcher). He groomed him to be a pro ball player and was his coach through HS. The team was fair in weak competition. I see it all the time done down here. I see a lot of pitcher overuse injuries in that scenerio also. Lots. That's what happens when your dad is the coach, you play alot.
If you have the knowledge you can give him the basics and then let him fly on his own in HS and on summer travel teams.

There are exceptions of course.

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Alot of parents want to take credit for there childs successes. Why not let the kid's take the credit they earn and us parents can stay in the background and provide any support they need or want.

At a travel basketball game today someone mentioned a kid I used to coach is one of the top ranked high school freshmen in the country. The person asked if I felt good about having input to his basketball career. I told the person I'm very proud I didn't screw up some serious talent.

The best thing I did for my kids athletically was marry superior athletic genetics. My wife was a better athlete than I was in high school.

Did I hit my kids a lot of grounders, throw a lot of BP and play catch with them when they were younger? Yes. But as they got older they got the work in anyway. As much as I believe I know baseball/softball and basketball, the most important thing I helped with is building the passion when my kids were younger.

Any Major League player's parents post here? I am not saying Minor league, college, HS players are not serious players. But players at Minor league level or lower can be created through practice, practice, and more practices. You don't need whole lot of talents to play at those levels. Parnets don't have the bragging right until their son become a Major Leaguer.

It's way too early to take credit when your son only good at HS level. In my opinion, those Major League All-Stars are all Aliens or they sold their soul to the "angel" , they all have unbelievable talents that are not coachable.

This might be the reason that we don't have any Major League parents take credit and post their story here.

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But players at Minor league level or lower can be created through practice, practice, and more practices. You don't need whole lot of talents to play at those levels. Parnets don't have the bragging right until their son become a Major Leaguer.

Are you serious!!!!! It doesn't take a lot of talent to become a minor league baseball player? Do you understand what small percentage of high school and college baseball players are afforded the opportunity to play pro ball even in the minors? Now I'm going to duck so I don't get hit by any debris being thrown in your direction.

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Originally posted by coachbwww:
Any Major League player's parents post here? I am not saying Minor league, college, HS players are not serious players. But players at Minor league level or lower can be created through practice, practice, and more practices. You don't need whole lot of talents to play at those levels. Parnets don't have the bragging right until their son become a Major Leaguer.

It's way too early to take credit when your son only good at HS level. In my opinion, those Major League All-Stars are all Aliens or they sold their soul to the "angel" , they all have unbelievable talents that are not coachable.

This might be the reason that we don't have any Major League parents take credit and post their story here.

We have MLB parents here, they don't post often.

As far as your statement, I will consider the source from one who coaches 11 year olds and critiques them.

Yes, you can get really good through practice, practice, practice, good enough to get to milb. Then you have to practice, practice, practice to get to MLB, no matter what talent god gave you. In fact, lots of the god given talent guys DON'T make it, because they feel they don't have to practice, practice, practice.

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players at Minor league level or lower can be created through practice, practice, and more practices.

Not much happening in Kansas this time of year?? This is a great example of how misleading the information can get on the HSBBW.

Coach3w, You can take your little league team and practice, practice and practice them ----- when every single one of them is drafted into professional baseball I will retract my criticism of that ridiculous remark!! You can stir all you want but it’s impossible to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t. Nope ---- I would not like to be one of your players when they fail to get drafted, make the high school roster, or are not good enough to play college baseball.

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Parnets don't have the bragging right until their son become a Major Leaguer.

Where you coming from?? A parent has as much "right" to brag about their 11 year old son dribbling a 60 mph “fastball” past a chubby little pitcher for what is generously called an “infield hit” as a MLB parent does when their son strikes out Barry Bonds. JUST being a parent gives you the "right" to brag on your child. I still brag on the time my three year old son hit a yellow plastic "comebacker" to me and bloodied my nose. He's 24 now and plays pro ball but that first underhand pitch I made when he was three will always make me proud.
Fungo
PS#1: About 1% (1 in 94) draft eligible players are selected in the pro draft. And there is only 1 college slot for every 10 high school players.

PS#2: Since there is nothing to do this time of year I thought you might enjoy an article from years ago --- First printed in Sports Illustrated Issue date: April 2, 2001 and later archived on the HSBBW.

Two fathers stand watching their kids. "Well, the wife and I have finally come to a decision," says the one with the Reebok headband.

"Yeah?" says the one in the Nike cap.

"Amber's gonna concentrate 100 percent on tennis from now on. Her coach says she's gotta pick one sport right now, or she'll get left behind the other girls."

"She looks like she's got good quickness," says the cap.

"Her kinesiologist says she's quicker than Venus at this age," says the headband, beaming.

"We've decided the same thing about Ike and golf," says the cap. "If he's going to stay ahead of the other kids, he's got to specialize now."

"His hand-eye looks good," says the headband.

"His physiologist says his muscle fibers twitch faster than Tiger's!"

"Golf's fine, I guess," says the headband, "but our financial planner says for girls, tennis is it. With Venus and Serena pushing the global marketing envelope, our yearly income should be seven figures!"

"You mean her income."

"Right. Her income."

"Ike's psychologist has told us he's gifted in lots of sports besides golf, but there's no time," says the cap. "You don't want to be spinning your wheels."

"Course not!" says the headband. "You don't want to be shut outta the best camps -- "

"And the best leagues -- "

"And the national teams."

"I mean, yeah," says the cap, "it looks like my wife will have to quit her job just to drive Ike to all his golf tournaments. But there's no Tiger without Earl, right?"

"Tell me about it!" says the headband. "I'm working three jobs just to pay for all this stuff -- Amber's pilates are killin' me! -- but it's all about the kids, man."

"I hear that. Like, Ike's media tutor won't be cheap, but it'll free up his afternoons for his bunker workshops."

"Hey, you're gonna have expenses," says the headband. "We ripped out the bedrooms upstairs and put in an indoor tennis cage, but whaddya gonna do? The little girl across the street has a live-in hitting partner!"

"God! That's just plain overparenting!"

"Criminal!"

"The wife and I feel that if we put in the hours and the money now, Ike will be good enough to go straight to the PGA Tour out of high school and not waste time going to college. Not that college is a bad thing."

"Nah, not really bad," says the headband. "But Amber's career strategist thinks she can do Wimbledon by 14. That's what's important. Did you see the MLS kid whose parents let him miss a game the other day because of his prom?"

"Sounds like somebody's got their priorities mixed up," says the cap. "I mean, I'm sure Ike will be a little disappointed he'll have to leave home and move in with the Leadbetters soon, but some decisions a father has to make for his son."

"I know, I know," says the headband. "I'm a little bummed that Amber won't get to play lacrosse or basketball or, even, I don't know, piano, but how can she do that and put in the 13 hours a day that will give us the level we need?"

"She needs."

"She needs, right."

"Hey, I only wish my dad had done this for me," says the cap.

"Hell, yeah!" says the headband. "I know this dad who's renting a house on a lake this summer. Says he and the family are just gonna fish and skip stones!"

"What a waste of time!"

"I mean, what are you gonna do with your kid for two weeks on a lake? I wouldn't know what to say to Amber for two weeks!"

"Most summers from now on, Ike will be playing the mini Asian tours, to build up his tolerance for travel and foreign foods. He'll need it when he gets his Gulfstream IV."

There's a pause.

"Which one's yours, anyway?" says the cap.

"The little one in the pink diaper near the incubator," says the headband.

"Beautiful. Mine's in the blue. With the nurse and the bottle."

"Got creatine?"

"Hey, it's never too early to start, am I right?"

Before you waste all that time and money, here's a little trick I learned from another coach; you look at the size of the neck. It's a sign of inner strength, I have a big neck and I'm really good at... Well I used to be awesome at... I think I could have been good at something if I'd just had some talent!

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Originally posted by coachbwww:
Any Major League player's parents post here? I am not saying Minor league, college, HS players are not serious players. But players at Minor league level or lower can be created through practice, practice, and more practices. You don't need whole lot of talents to play at those levels. Parnets don't have the bragging right until their son become a Major Leaguer.

It's way too early to take credit when your son only good at HS level. In my opinion, those Major League All-Stars are all Aliens or they sold their soul to the "angel" , they all have unbelievable talents that are not coachable.

This might be the reason that we don't have any Major League parents take credit and post their story here.

Coach,
Enjoyed your post.

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Originally posted by njbb:
Coach,
Enjoyed your post.

Does a body good to chuckle now and then.
Does he sound a lot another poster who came and went under different names and "different" ideas?
I think it's just some "regular" guy who likes to stir the pot for jollies.

Fungo,
I always loved that piece.

coachbwww

it is better to be silent and let people think your not to bright, than to post something stupid and relieve all doubt.


we aren't in kansas anymore toto.

Fungo..First time I've seen that. Loved it..Thanks

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Originally posted by Brian Shanberg:
A recent thread on this forum and my own observations of my son's team got me thinking.

Are there any exceptional HS baseball players that were NOT parent coached or trained while the player was in his youth? (Assume the most significant parent involvement was between ages 8 and 16.)

I think baseball is a very technical sport and that it takes much practice and experience to get good at. I figure if the players are not specializing at a young age, they run the risk of getting behind.
Football can also be a very technical sport, but I've seen numerous examples where a kid with great natural talent can walk on the football field for the first time and have great success. I had kids on my HS football team that had no father presence and no experience, yet their speed and quickness lead them to great success.

But, in baseball? Does it happen frequently? I know there are exceptions, but I'm really wondering about the typical HS baseball team and the star players on that team. Can you link those star players back to a parent that spent time with the child teaching him the game, while they were in their youth? Or are the star players just gifted athletes that learn it merely from playing it each Spring?

]\

I don't think a player needs to have a parent as coach to do well in baseball.
It does help to have a parent support their child's interest.
I also don't think most star players merely play it each spring. Most also play in the summer

Hey hey hey,..easy on the Kansas bashing would ya?
There's plenty going on here in this fine prairie state, ...just indoors in the basketball gyms because of all the freak**^^#@ snow

Coach,....you're getting thrown under the bus, and I'm not sure how to help pull you out & I might get labotomized for tryin'.

You asked:

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Any Major League player's parents post here?

The answer is YES.

Ya had to know that the below was going to rile up just about the entire parent population on the planet,.....right?

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Parnets don't have the bragging right until their son become a Major Leaguer.

I disagree with your opinion(s) on so many levels, not really sure where to begin, so I wont. I will edit myself and allow you your opinion.
And I'll go even one further:
I'm going to throw you a life vest:
( claim temporary insanity,...blame it on our frigid weather, cabin fever, and lack of air that is warmer than -18. It might work, and all will be forgiven. Well, maybe not all, but perhaps some. )

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I might add that an involved MOTHER can be just as effective as an involved dad.

FUNGO,...you might just very well be my own personal hero!

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Getting back on track,
BrianShanberg, good thought provoking thread!
I think God given talent is a pure blessing and those born with it who back it up with an incredible work ethic and great coaching, are the ones who have the best shot at making/breaking records.....throw in a Little Lady Luck and you get magic!
With all of that said, I have witnessed the " underdog " make it all the way, and that to me is also magic in and of itself.

From a personal standpoint I deserve my own labotomey. I never let my oldest son play football until the 9th grade. ( I'll slap myself for that one, than you very much!)
He got to highschool in Hawaii his freshman year and decided to try and play. He found himself going up against 350 lb. experienced Samoan players who tossed him around like he was the Flying Nunn.

First game, first play,...he goes the wrong way and ** splat **.
He looked like a bug that flew head on into my windsheild.
13 stitches to the chin and a concussion- PRETTY!
( He was carried off the field muttering something about zebras. )

He was at a disadvantage. The kid had no game savey, no playing experience, several pre-season weeks of coaching, and that was it. He paid the Piper for it many times over.
Wish I had started him playing when he was 8!
My bad,...bug big time!

Press forward:
We moved to Kansas and he made the starting
Varsity ( 6A ) team.
( not too many 350 lb. Samoans over here )
Worked his rumpus off like a mad dog.
Had to,.....was sick of getting it handed to him on a platter!

Made All League, lead in tackles, and had college scholarships waiting for him his senior year.

Sometimes we get lucky ( whew ) and things work out, but why make it an uphill battle the entire way?
My son wanted to play when he was younger and I held him back. That was a mistake.
My hat goes off to the kids who go out to play baseball or any sport for the first time at the highschool+ level.

They've got gumption!