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Is the ball still live on foul tip with less than 2 strikes

DM dave maherMember
there is runner on 1st 1 and 1 count the runner breaks for 2nd on attempted steal the catcher catches foul tip does not throw to 2nd ask ump if runner should return to 1st he says no catcher should have dropped the ball knowing that the count was 1 and 1 ????? Thought that only applied if there was 2 strikes on batter and it was strike out throw out situation. the age group is u-13 thx Dave
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Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by dave maher:
there is runner on 1st 1 and 1 count the runner breaks for 2nd on attempted steal the catcher catches foul tip does not throw to 2nd ask ump if runner should return to 1st he says no catcher should have dropped the ball knowing that the count was 1 and 1 ????? Thought that only applied if there was 2 strikes on batter and it was strike out throw out situation. the age group is u-13 thx Dave


A foul tip is a strike like a swinging strike, not a foul ball. The ball is live, regardless of the count.
B baseballinbloodMember
I have another question regarding this type of scenario. I've had the situation where the runner on first was stealing second base. The pitch was a foul tip. I called it and there was no throw to second base. The offensive coach told his runner on second to return to first since it was a foul tip. The runner made it back to first, without a throw.
I let the play continue with the runner back on first. After the inning I talked to the coach and explained the foul tip rule. This was a 13 and under team playing high school rules.
Did I do the right thing or what should I have called (This has happened more than once)
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
Good Call on the play.........BUT and this is just an adjustment....as a trainer of umpires, I do not want umpires verbally saying anything on a foul tip.......

Signal the tip....... slide your right hand over your left hand....

Signal the strike.........Hammer the strike.....

Remember a foul tip is a live ball...runners can steal...do not say anything that may sound like "Foul" as it could kill any subsequent action.........
Last edited by piaa_ump
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by baseballinblood:
I called the tip verbally and signaled it with my hands. Then I indicated it was a strike.

Thanks to all for your input. I thought I made the right call but wasn't 100% sure.


Good call, bad mechanic. As piaa pointed out, no verbal should be used on a foul tip. Treat like any other swinging strike with the addition of the foul tip signal prior to your strike signal.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
I thought there was a thread dealing with my question I'm about to ask but this is the only one I could find that was similar.

Foul tip but it doesn't go into the mitt. Our catcher catches it with his elbow. It would have been strike three and third out. Our catcher came out holding the ball up but the ump saw he caught it with his elbow and declared foul ball. Obviously it was the right call and some our players thought as long as it doesn't hit the ground then it's a catch. I told them that it wasn't.

Okay my question (finally) isn't there some rule in regards to this that if it goes into the mitt and then pops out and is caught cleanly (no body / ground contact) then it's a legal catch. Is there something to that or am I making stuff up?

Thanks
M mrumpiresir10+ posts
A foul tip must go directly from the bat to the glove or catchers hand. If the ball goes directly to the mitt and pops out but is caught before it hits the ground it is a foul tip, live ball. If the ball goes directly from the bat and hits the catcher in the chest protector, it is a foul ball at that point and cannot be caught for a foul tip.
S schwammi100+ posts
I saw this once in my son's JV game. R1 attempts to steal 2nd base. Pitch was a caught foul tip. Catcher throws to 2nd base and beats the runner by 15 ft, except runner stops. Everyone is yelling "foul tip", so runner walks back to 1st base. 2B looks confused, but throws back to the pitcher without ever tagging the runner. The whole thing took about 30 seconds and not very many people realized what had just happened (the ball was live the whole time).

The twist is that R1 attempted to steal 2nd base again on the next pitch. This time they threw him out by 10 feet. I used to joke with my son that "Jimmy" was the only guy to ever get thrown out stealing twice in a single at bat!!!
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I thought there was a thread dealing with my question I'm about to ask but this is the only one I could find that was similar.

Foul tip but it doesn't go into the mitt. Our catcher catches it with his elbow. It would have been strike three and third out. Our catcher came out holding the ball up but the ump saw he caught it with his elbow and declared foul ball. Obviously it was the right call and some our players thought as long as it doesn't hit the ground then it's a catch. I told them that it wasn't.

Okay my question (finally) isn't there some rule in regards to this that if it goes into the mitt and then pops out and is caught cleanly (no body / ground contact) then it's a legal catch. Is there something to that or am I making stuff up?

Thanks


Saw a play tonight that was very similar to the one above but I'm thinking the umps may have made a boo boo.

Bottom of the 7th with two out and two strikes. Pitch is delivered, batter swings and there is a foul tip. The ball off the mitt, hit the chest protector and is finally caught / cradled by both hands. Plate ump said it was an out and the field ump booked it off the field. We were on defense and the other team didn't protest it. All of us coaches looked at each other pretty much expecting a foul ball to be called and another pitch to be delivered. But we ended up coming out and shaking hands.

It's definately a HTBT situation but I'm thinking this ball didn't fall under the into the mitt requirement. So my question is - if it didn't go into the mitt but just glances off then should it have been a foul ball as soon as it hit the chest protector?
D dash_riprock1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
I thought there was a thread dealing with my question I'm about to ask but this is the only one I could find that was similar.

Foul tip but it doesn't go into the mitt. Our catcher catches it with his elbow. It would have been strike three and third out. Our catcher came out holding the ball up but the ump saw he caught it with his elbow and declared foul ball. Obviously it was the right call and some our players thought as long as it doesn't hit the ground then it's a catch. I told them that it wasn't.

Okay my question (finally) isn't there some rule in regards to this that if it goes into the mitt and then pops out and is caught cleanly (no body / ground contact) then it's a legal catch. Is there something to that or am I making stuff up?

Thanks


Saw a play tonight that was very similar to the one above but I'm thinking the umps may have made a boo boo.

Bottom of the 7th with two out and two strikes. Pitch is delivered, batter swings and there is a foul tip. The ball off the mitt, hit the chest protector and is finally caught / cradled by both hands. Plate ump said it was an out and the field ump booked it off the field. We were on defense and the other team didn't protest it. All of us coaches looked at each other pretty much expecting a foul ball to be called and another pitch to be delivered. But we ended up coming out and shaking hands.

It's definately a HTBT situation but I'm thinking this ball didn't fall under the into the mitt requirement. So my question is - if it didn't go into the mitt but just glances off then should it have been a foul ball as soon as it hit the chest protector?

They got it right. As long as the ball goes directly from the bat to the catcher's hands (mitt) and is subsequently caught, it is a foul tip. FED actually allows the ball to be caught by a fielder other than the catcher, although I've never seen that one.
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Thanks Dash and let me ask something else to get more clarification because either I didn't explain it well enough or not understand the rule.

Last night the ball went off the top of the mitt and then onto the chest protector. My understanding of the rule is that it had to go into the mitt first (like the pocket) and then pop out, be juggled and then caught by someone (never seen that one myself either).

So my question is - does it have to just contact the mitt or does it have to go into the mitt and then pop out?

Oh yeah - an update

The steak my buddy owed me was pretty good I must say. The combonation of how he fixed it and the sweet taste of being right made for a good meal.

Thanks again for all you guys do on the field, training field and on here. I love knowing the rules because it gives you such a huge upper hand in strategy if the other team doesn't know the rules.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by coach2709:
Last night the ball went off the top of the mitt and then onto the chest protector. My understanding of the rule is that it had to go into the mitt first (like the pocket) and then pop out, be juggled and then caught by someone (never seen that one myself either).

So my question is - does it have to just contact the mitt or does it have to go into the mitt and then pop out?




The rule states the ball has to go TO, not IN.
F 3FingeredGlove1,000+ posts
The OBR rules are a little more expansive than the FED book.

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

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