It is official.

My neighbor, Jeff Locke, just recently got traded to the Pirates from the Braves, he is in the minor league system in Lynchburg Virginia. I feel bad for him, although the Pirates will bring to the bigs alot faster than the Braves. I just hope he is ready. But I agree with you, the Pirates are a black hole.

Sadly, I think you have this one pegged. I've been a Pirates fan since the mid-60's, when I found a Jose Pagan baseball card walking down the street one day -- my first baseball card.

I have no inside knowledge of the organization, but as a fan, it certainly does appear that ownership either has no commitment to winning, or is incompetent. Either way, it is not a great endorsement.

You hear the old "small market" excuse thrown around, but there are enough small market teams that make a concerted effort at winning to suggest this is an excuse. It does seem that ownership does not hold winning as their top priority.

quote:

Originally posted by southpaw_dad:

I have no inside knowledge of the organization, but as a fan, it certainly does appear that ownership either has no commitment to winning, or is incompetent. Either way, it is not a great endorsement.

You hear the old "small market" excuse thrown around, but there are enough small market teams that make a concerted effort at winning to suggest this is an excuse. It does seem that ownership does not hold winning as their top priority.

The owners are not incompetent.....The Pirates are a profitable Business. Even with the 17 years of losing....Still, thanks to MLB's revenue sharing system, the Bucs make a big profit.

The owners, the Nutting Family, are business people and not baseball people. Last January board member and former managing general partner of the Pirates, Kevin McClatchy, sold his few remaining shares to principal owner Bob Nutting.

McClatchy, who ran the Pirates during most of its streak of 16 straight losing seasons, also gave up his board post. McClatchy never had the financial wherewithall to do any better than what he did. He led a group of investors who were satisfied with the financial return as is.

The Pirates have been notorious cheapskates. But Nutting seems to be trying to change that as last year the franchise broke ground on a $5 million baseball academy in the Dominican Republic (which is now open) and kicked in $2 million towards renovations on its spring training complex in Bradenton, Fla.

I do not claim to see any turn around in the near future, yet I am pleased to see some of our homegrown talents on the way...

quote:

Originally posted by piaa_ump:
The owners, the Nutting Family, are business people and not baseball people.

A quick story...

Last year, one of the longtime Pirates scouts had a son playing in an NCAA regional. Of course all scouts are at regionals and this scouts son, was playing at a regional not in this scouts territory. Another scout, one for the Red Sox, also had a son playing on the same team in the regional, and like the Pirates scout, outside his territory.

The Red Sox allowed the two scouts to switch territories for the regional so that the scout could watch his son play and still do his job. The Pirates did not allow the scouts to switch territories and he did not get to see his son, a senior, play.

We talk about the dynamics of organizations and clubhouse chemistry all the time. The same is true of business cultures. Some foster winning through embracing their employees, and some continue to wallow around like gut shot elephants and treat their employees quite differently.

As business people, you have to wonder which camp the Nuttings fall into, good, or less than that.

I have always been thankful that over the years that the Pirates have been willing to trade so many good players to the Cubs.

quote:

Originally posted by Bighit15:
It is official. The Pittsburgh Pirates are the most pathetic excuse for a Professional Sports Org in the modern era. Today they clinched their 17th losing season.

Uh sorry... I have to take exception to that.

The Detroit Lions have had the "most pathetic excuse for a Professional Sports Org" moniker wrapped up a looooong time ago.

Corky

I too have been grateful that the Pirates have sent so many players to Cubs.....us Cardinal fans love it!

Good one dad43!

We are still smarting from the Brock for Broglio trade in the 60's too.

Smiles

quote:

Originally posted by dad43:
Corky

I too have been grateful that the Pirates have sent so many players to Cubs.....us Cardinal fans love it!

LOL.

Sorry, there's more to it than won-loss record. Who could possibly match the Raiders for most pathetic?

Unfortunately, at least the Pittsburgh folks can now feel how us Braves fans felt ALL those long years prior to the 90's!!!!!!! Eternity!!!!!!

We gladly hand over the baton.

Hey - dont forget my Metsies!

Not quite as bad as the Pirates - but dollar for dollar - about as bad as you can possibly get.

At least the Pirates dont spend a fortune for players who - literally - do not play.

It would seem that money spent alone guarantees nothing but money spent.

"Incompetency is priceless."
- Yogi Berra

Small market is bunk as the same small market brought home the Super Bowl trophy last year. All markets shrink when you produce a loser ...

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Small market is bunk as the same small market brought home the Super Bowl trophy last year. All markets shrink when you produce a loser ...

Football has a salary cap. It makes all teams competitive. But small market is still not an excuse. A small market baseball team may not be in the hunt every year like the big spenders. But there's no excuse for not developing players and contending from time to time.

Somebody forget to tell the Detroit Lions ... Bad organizations make bad decisions and end up with bad products, big or small.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Football has a salary cap. It makes all teams competitive. But small market is still not an excuse. A small market baseball team may not be in the hunt every year like the big spenders. But there's no excuse for not developing players and contending from time to time.

I agree. Besides that, smaller market teams who don't win get the first crack at the best prospects. Whether you use that to your advantage to trade or keep them, you don't have to spend a lot to develop players, but you have an obligation to your fans to place a decent product on the field, just ask the Marlins, probably spend less than most over the years, yet they won 2 championships.

Sometimes it's better for a player to get drafted by a smaller market team, they get better chances, but if they become solid players, they are stuck until free agency until they can control their own destiny.

In the end, professional sports operate like any other business; there are some firms that understand that they will reap the best long-term returns by striving to deliver the best customer experience possible, and building a loyal (spending) customer base; then there are those who simply look at the numbers one year at a time, and focus on hitting an acceptable profit margin for that year, losing site of the big picture.