It Still Happens

I don't know any cases like that with regards to baseball, football, basketball. But it isn't too uncommon in sports like golf (considered THE job due to the free golf for many HS teachers), cross country, etc...

My sister teaches HS math at a school that is a powerhouse in sports within its region and state. She tells me they really struggle to fill all of their coaching positions.

I think if the interest is genuine and the teacher is committed to understanding and then teaching the game, why not? Better than the alternative of no coach. The pay stinks and many parents today aren't exactly a walk in the park. I'm not surprised at all and I'd prefer to evaluate the coach based on his/her leadership and performance.

A lot... but then again Charlie Weiss never played and he has been pretty successful.

My son's HS S****r coach never played either. He doesn't command the necessary respect for that reason.

I've also seen plenty of very good ex-baseball players that make lousy coaches. So there is much more to coaching than having played at a high level.

In our area the only requirement to be a coach is to teach at the school. The programs that win championships have a teacher who likes baseball or has a basic understanding of the game as the head coach and is smart enough to see the value in surrounding himself with ex MLB or at the very least ex college players as assistant coaches. Even the teams with superior talent rarely overcome the programs with a knowlegable coaching staff in championship play .

One of the most successful HS baseball coaches in Albuquerque never played the game in HS himself. Granted he gets the cream of the crop in talent because of where he coaches, but he also deserves a ton of credit for surrounding himself with knowledgeable, experienced assistants, and he's learned himself how the game is best taught and played at a very high level. He's sent a lot of players on to the next level, and more than a few to the pros. He's also a math teacher.

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in talking with him I find out he is the varsity s o k k e r coach at his HS--I asked him where he played his college s****r--the answer --" Play? I never played the game at any level" DUH --------- that is kind of scary---I wonder how many HS coaches never played the game they coach

Many people go into professions with little or no prior experience....

BD19

That's true. But they are inevitably trained in the positiion and to advance they need additional training, certification etc. My impression is that most H.S select their respective coaches based soley are their availabilty and not necessarily their experience or expertise in the sport

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My impression is that most H.S select their respective coaches based soley are their availabilty and not necessarily their experience or expertise in the sport

Do you think thats more a reflection of the poor administration of HS athletic departments or the reluctance of the "good" coaches willing to put up with the low pay, long hours and the inevitable angry parents?

That's great question JB.

I can't answer for dswann, but around here availability is just a prerequisite to submit an application. In addition to making yourself available, state certification is a requirement for all NM coaches (even volunteer assistants), and teaching credentials are the norm.

The search committees that I have been part of ended up with a handful of qualified candidates with both teaching expertise and head coaching experience. The panels were least interested in a candidate's playing experience, but much more so in whether or not the coach could maintain a consistent presence on campus, how they planned to structure the program, and a lot on how they dealt with adversity & discipline. Like most here, I feel it's way beyond important for a HS coach to have close perspective on student athletes in the classroom. Most teachers can find that perspective easier than someone who may only be there on campus part time.

The factor that ultimately separated the appointees from the qualified pack was their presentation of program plans and insight into their administrative abilities, including fundraising ideas.

Things may be different here than in other places around the country, but there is still a lot of value placed on being a HS coach in New Mexico. Unfortunately, that value does not come in the form of a decent salary. In the end, you have to decide what it is you want your kids learning at school. Baseball is just part of the curriculum.

Augie Garrido recently said something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing here) "I don't love baseball, the game is too cruel for me to love, but I really love teaching kids." A great teacher like Garrido doesn't come along very often, but if more good men made themselves available as teachers we might have more good baseball coaches in our schools, and maybe a lot less to worry about.

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Do you think thats more a reflection of the poor administration of HS athletic departments or the reluctance of the "good" coaches willing to put up with the low pay, long hours and the inevitable angry parents?

Both. In our area a public school needs to hire a head coach from within the teaching ranks. I am certain that they hire the best possible canidate. Is the stipend per hour expended miniscule for coaching during the school year. Yes.

Can a coach with a little iniative make it up in lessons during the season and camps during the summer. Definetly. A local coach offers 2 camps during the summer. Each camp is limited to 100 kids. They are filled. At $300.00 per camper X 100 campers = $30,000 X 2 camps = $60,000. He'll hire a few kids from the varsity to help run it buy some pizza and walk with $50,000 for 2 weeks of "work".

And may god continue to bless him. It's probably a break even proposition when you factor in all those emails during the sesaon.

Not all situations are the same but I do know that in our area it is getting harder and harder to fill head coaching positions and assistant postions in every sport.

I don't think it's any one thing (money, e-mails, time away from family, stupid rulings from state associations, budget cuts, maintenance crews that can be difficult to work with, chemistry teachers that hate atheletes and decide to stick it to your best lefty, scheduling that is out of whack, admin that might not communicate very well, etc etc).... I don't think it's one thing; but it is a cumulative thing where a lot of guys (and gals) just look at like, "hey, I coached a few years and that's enough. After they quit, if they don't really hunger to get back in you won't see them get back in. They don't give up their teaching gig so now you are looking at the public to fill that spot. It's hard to find someone who has the flexible schedule to pull that off.

Oh, I do the clinic thing: this year I charged 10 bucks for 2 Sundays. They got a 5 dollar t-shirt, some gatorade and cheap prizes. After I treated my HS helpers to some appetizers at Applebees I totaled it up and this years clinic cost me $14.

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Originally posted by spizzlepop:
That's great question JB.

I can't answer for dswann, but around here availability is just a prerequisite to submit an application. In addition to making yourself available, state certification is a requirement for all NM coaches (even volunteer assistants), and teaching credentials are the norm.

The search committees that I have been part of ended up with a handful of qualified candidates with both teaching expertise and head coaching experience. The panels were least interested in a candidate's playing experience, but much more so in whether or not the coach could maintain a consistent presence on campus, how they planned to structure the program, and a lot on how they dealt with adversity & discipline. Like most here, I feel it's way beyond important for a HS coach to have close perspective on student athletes in the classroom. Most teachers can find that perspective easier than someone who may only be there on campus part time.

The factor that ultimately separated the appointees from the qualified pack was their presentation of program plans and insight into their administrative abilities, including fundraising ideas.

Things may be different here than in other places around the country, but there is still a lot of value placed on being a HS coach in New Mexico. Unfortunately, that value does not come in the form of a decent salary. In the end, you have to decide what it is you want your kids learning at school. Baseball is just part of the curriculum.

Augie Garrido recently said something to the effect of (and I'm paraphrasing here)"I don't love baseball, the game is too cruel for me to love, but I really love teaching kids." A teacher like Garrido doesn't come along very often, but if more good men made themselves available as teachers we might have more good baseball coaches in our schools, and maybe a lot less to worry about.

State certified, panels of review, presentation of a program plan.... Now your just braggin. Seriously this should be the blue print for HS sports.

Good post Spiz.

I also like the paragraph about Augie. There are those that coach and manage but few actually teach the game.

Why is there a perception that a coach has to be a former player to do the job? Same thing with the perception that players make good instructors.

That's probably a question for all you owners and athletic directors out there. I would submit that players in general are not good instructors. But good instructors have played

Its kind of interesting when you think about the economics of it all.

If parents would take half of what they spend on summer ball, travel expenses, camps, private lessons and showcases and put that half instead into their local HS program...at least where I live...there'd be a lot nicer fields and a lot better pay for HS coaches. All for the same total cost!

Of course, then we might just demand more control of that too.

Double-edged sword. Never mind.

In my experience schools that hire teacher coaches are looking for a jack of all trades. They want a guy who can fill many roles so they don't have to go out and hire others or hope others can do what one person can.

For example a school wants

1. Good teacher
2. Good role model for students in classroom / hall
3. Good role model for players on field / gym
4. Motivator in classroom / hall / field / gym
5. Someone who can maintain discipline in classroom / hall / field / gym
6. Someone who can communicate with parents about students / players
7. Bus driver (both schools I've been at make the coaches drive the bus - I've had my CDL for 14 years)
8. Good coach
.....
1758 Someone who played the game

I consider myself a baseball guy and that is the focus of my resume (outside of my academic / job achievements) but I also list my football qualifications. In my interviews I make it plain that I'm a baseball guy and would rather not do football but would if they wanted me to.

Both schools that have hired me so I could coach football.

At my last school when I first arrived there we had two guys on staff who really impressed me with their knowledge and ability to teach football. It was starting my second year with them that I found out neither had played the game at any level. The head coach told me they were both basketball guys (both coached that sport too) but got the job so they could fill out the staff. Head coach said they worked really hard at learning the game and they did. They were very knowledgable about the game. I can't say that for everyone though because I know a volleyball coach who gave out a 6th "man" award at the banquet for his team (for those of you who may not know volleyball has 6 starters - it should have been a 7th "man" award for a girls team).

The quality of the high school coaches will be affected by the scope of search allowed by the high school. Our state allows anyone holding a teacher's certificate to be a head coach regardless of profession. A majority of our high school's varsity coaches do not teach at the high school. Many are teaching in the district.

Despite the state rules, some school districts require varsity coaches to teach at the high school. This can be very limiting in terms of coaching experience. How many teachers our age played s****r and lacrosse in high school? They weren't popular sports at many high schools, if sports at all.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
In my experience schools that hire teacher coaches are looking for a jack of all trades. They want a guy who can fill many roles so they don't have to go out and hire others or hope others can do what one person can.

For example a school wants

1. Good teacher
2. Good role model for students in classroom / hall
3. Good role model for players on field / gym
4. Motivator in classroom / hall / field / gym
5. Someone who can maintain discipline in classroom / hall / field / gym
6. Someone who can communicate with parents about students / players
7. Bus driver (both schools I've been at make the coaches drive the bus - I've had my CDL for 14 years)
8. Good coach
.....
1758 Someone who played the game
.

Coach 2709 would totally agree with 1-6.

Maybe it's a coincidence the assitant coaches of my original post on this topic are ex MLB & college players. I don't know. Personally I like the idea that a coach has had a little experience in the game he's offering instruction in. I am puzzeled on how a HS coach with no experience playing, would be able to implement a conditioning program for both position players and pitchers without some background in baseball and be successful. This past year my sons head coach hired a friend to be the conditioning coach. Qualifications; ex-navy seal 20 years removed. The conditioning for seals is fabulous. Running 2 miles in your cleats the day before a game or running sprints while carrying your buddy the day before a start would probably raise a few eyebrows. If you never really played the game how do you know when your pitchers done? Is 50 pitches, 75, 120.

As witnessed in my area the teams with the ex-players as coaches dominate. Maybe this experience as a player (even as limited as HS) has helped them in scouting and exploiting an opposing teams weaknesses in the field or the inevitable holes in a players swing. Maybe they understand the nuances of a conditioning program that would address both the position player and pitcher needs. And take the time to develop pitchers so they can compete all season and stay healthy. Since they have played and have been exposed to countless hours of instruction from numerous coaches, is there the smallest of possibilities that this would translate to enhanced instuction to the individual player, compared with the canidate who does not know the difference between a catchers glove and a 1st basemans mitt. Would you rather have the coach who understands the importance of when to push and when to console a player because he's experienced the same situation on countless occasions or do you rely on the canidates only qualification is that he drives a bus to make the right call


I understand your not going to be able to have a coaching staff comprised of ex MLB or college players for most schools. But Spizz's post with a list of minimum requirements for coach in N.M is something that should be standard operating procedure for a HS. Additionally simple guidelines on appropriate conditioning programs for both position players and pitchers would be a plus for the newcomers to coaching. As well a basic understanding of what a HS pitcher is safely able to do and the importance of developing a pitching staff would go a long way for starters. Selfeshly I do not want my son to be a casualty of a aspiring coaches learning curve

Does anybody know if Augie Garrido can drive a bus

My own area is fortunate when it comes to baseball coaches and opportunities. We have beautiful fields and facilities with indoor hitting facilities at all public HS. I can't think of a coach in this area that didn't at least play college ball at some level. There's one coach who played professionally - maybe someone else as well that's just not coming to mind.

I had a conversation a couple weeks ago with a young summer ball coach (former college player) who shared with me the amazement over the lack of knowledge of some of the teenage HS players. He said some of them had never heard of some techniques, seen the drills, or have the knowledge that he felt he took for granted with his own HS instruction. In small and economically challenged areas it can be very difficult to find a qualified coach. Oftentimes a dad who is well meaning has to step up to the plate. Are some dads qualified to do this - yes. Are most? Don't think so for many reasons.

There are coaches at the HS level dipping into their own pockets to field expenses for their teams while making little or no salary for their time and efforts. At many programs, baseball is the step child so to speak. Again, we're lucky where I live that it's a different scenario in most ways... kids here are blessed IMO.

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Selfeshly I do not want my son to be a casualty of a aspiring coaches learning curve

dswann - I don't see that as being selfish but being a good parent. It would be troubling to go into a situation knowing the coach has almost no experience in a sport. The biggest thing for the success of the program is the coach realize he has a lot to learn and then starts learning it. I believe he can be honest with his players without losing the natural respect of the position. The coach has to be open to listening to his players.

If I ever had to coach a sport I had no experience in the first thing I would do is start finding people at the college level at that sport and seeing what I could learn from them, watch their practices and study up on as much material as I could. Then I would sit down with a few seniors that I felt I could trust and have them help me control any small fires that might spring up. With all that said I would still be a few years from being competent in said sport.

This all crumbles if the coach won't be realistic with his abilities and knowledge or if some parents see it as an opportunity to "help" out.

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I am puzzeled on how a HS coach with no experience playing, would be able to implement a conditioning program for both position players and pitchers without some background in baseball and be successful.

As for this it is a very legitimate worry but the only answer I have is give them a chance to learn because I think it can happen. But it also goes back to your other concern about your son (or anybody's son) being the casualty of the learning curve.

Also, lafmom isn't lying when she talks about how awesome her area is. I have had the good luck to see, talk and compete against a lot of schools in her area during my time in KY. Very knowledgable coaches, great teachers of the game, great talent and the facilities are wonderful. I'm getting jealous just typing this.

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This past year my sons head coach hired a friend to be the conditioning coach. Qualifications; ex-navy seal 20 years removed. The conditioning for seals is fabulous. Running 2 miles in your cleats the day before a game or running sprints while carrying your buddy the day before a start would probably raise a few eyebrows. If you never really played the game how do you know when your pitchers done? Is 50 pitches, 75, 120.

To start, I am not a huge fan of "sport-specific conditioning" in the first place. Not at the high school level. Develop complete athletes; not one-sport robots.

Second, how do all these wonderful parent-experts who never played the game know when "your pitcher is done?" They don't, but they sure think they do.

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Selfeshly I do not want my son to be a casualty of a aspiring coaches learning curve

So when is a young coach supposed to learn anyway?

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Second, how do all these wonderful parent-experts who never played the game know when "your pitcher is done?"
They don't, but they sure think they do.

You don't have to have played the game to know when your pitcher is done. My husband knew when son was done at 8 and knows now at 23, even listening over the internet.

There is nothing wrong with your sons having young coaches. Some young coaches just entering into that profession will leave the instruction to others. The problem begins when they begin changing things when they shouldn't and that can happen at any time with any coach.

My son had a very young coach when he was 13, just out of pro ball, it was not by choice but a coach he was assigned to by the league. He was very good with the young players. He didn't instruct as much as he taught them how to play the game. He also had a coach in his late 60's when he was young. He also didn't instruct but taught him how to play the game, he also was very good with the young players and the kids loved him. Instruction was left to others who knew more about pitching instruction than they did. He learned a lot from both of them, actually he has learned a lot from each and every one of his coaches, good and bad.

My pitcher carries a bit of each coach he has been with over the years, and that makes him who he is. Don't live in a bubble, you are going to come across some coaches who are better than others, you and your player need to learn how to deal with that.

BD 19

During the respective season I am a fan of sport specific/position specific training. After the season, work on the other aspects. The example provided of the seal training was implemented a week before the season. With the expected results. Would it have been better to introduce this program in Sept. rather than March, yes... The coach was looking to get the kids in shape. but a week before the season IMO was A. Not enough time to get in shape. B. Not enough time to recover from the twisted knees and strained backs.

Probably over the years of watching them play. A understanding that you probably should not be throw 100 plus pitches in a pre season game. Recovery time is good. In general educating yourself on what the potential landmines were and how to avoid them.

Coach 2709 last post said it best, education.

The title coach IMO is a huge responsibilty, for an individual to get involved with little practical experience is a major hurdle. In water polo they have a rating system for coaches. How does a young coach learn, through small steps, earning additional responsibility as he has proven himself through LL & TB. You need to take a test to get a drivers license, pass a hunters safety course to get a hunting license, continuing education classes are required in many professions on a yearly basis. I believe that a standard certification of HS coaches is long over due.

To me a good coach is one that knows his limitations