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It's about the numbers

BOFBOF10,000+ posts
I was thinking about the recruiting cycle and with the close of the early signing period this week and it reminded me of last year and one of the dichotomies of baseball recruiting. Numbers and feelings.

For college a coach recruiting is about numbers; for parents and players it is about feelings.

For a college coach it is about velo, pop time, bat speed, 60 time, height, weight, GPA, SAT. Additional numbers he is working with are 35, 25, 11.7, how many get drafted, number of returnees, open positions, number of players on his recruiting board. Like it or not, to a coach your son is a number. If your son’s performance numbers fit what he is looking for then he becomes another number for him, 1-10. 1 being good, and 10 being not so good. Now if you get through all of this, if he really wants you he will give you a big number and if not a smaller number. And for all this to work all of the numbers have to add up for him. Not an easy task.

To a player and a parent it is about liking the coach, the assistant coach, the school, the environment. Will he get along with his teammates, how far will he be from home, how is the weather, how well does the program do, what are the living conditions, what position will I play? All feelings.

I guess my point is that for those who are still in the thick of the recruiting process and those a little bit farther away – remember your son is a number. For a parent this is a REALLY hard thing to accept. I am sure every parent who has been through the recruiting process has thought, “why the heck does Coach so and so not want my little Johnny on his team, he is a wonderful kid. (I know I did…..more than once)

I guess my point is to not get your feelings hurt when Coach XYZ decides to go in another direction. Particularly for the 2012’s who are still looking, don’t be hurt, it is part of the process. Keep working hard, and you will find a spot for you or your son, there is a lot of time left.

Good Luck!


PS: There are a lot of us here pulling for you and your son. This is a really great "community" and remember that no question is stupid, particularly when it comes to recruiting.
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BB13BB13100+ posts
Yes, very good post. I think the hardest part is that the communication is strong at times and then, in some instances, Coaches will just stop e-mailing. If I were a college coach, I would like to think that I would be a bit more sensitive. I think kids deserve an e-mail letting them know where they stand. In my opinion, that would help to bridge the gap between being "a number" and a kid checking his e-mail every 15 minutes. Thankfully, kids are pretty resiliant.
J HJ H5,000+ posts
BB13- To play Devil's Advocate, look at the other side of the coin for a second. In late September I was with a coach of a school in the Big East...not a major annual Omaha contender but certainly good caliber baseball. I sat in a car with him for about a half hour and counted no less than 11 emails received on his Blackberry. Every email was from a coach or a player, with all of the numbers BOF listed out above readily available for the coach.

The mass information that coaches are given are extreme, especially with the numerous forms of instant communication that exist today. This particular coach I am speaking of has a young child, a pregnant wife and is studying part-time in a Master's degree program at the university he works at. It seems as if he spent all his time caring for the high school player's feelings, he wouldn't possibly have time for anything else.

Recruiting is often times the first harsh strike of reality for kids...I know it was for me.

BOF- I'd like to preliminarily nominate this post as a Golden Thread. I don't know how much my opinion holds water in that respect but everything you expressed is spot on. Thank you for sharing that with everyone here.
BB13BB13100+ posts
That's good perspective, JH. I do think, however, that a recruiter is "actively" e-mailing about 25-30 kids, or so, during their Junior year. For those kids, I think they deserve a bit more if they fall off the radar. I understand that coaches are receiving hundreds of e-mails but, to me, there is a duty to those that they have communicated with beyond a "thanks for your interest in our program". After seeing a number of kids disappointed by Coaches suddenly ignoring them, I think I would try to respond to those 25 or 30 recruits.
J HJ H5,000+ posts
BB13- I agree with you to an extent. However when it's all said and done college baseball is still a business and the coaches have many responsibilities. The recruiting process is different for everyone in every situation, and thus obvious (and often disconcerting) variables and obstacles are presented.
Last edited by J H
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
The farther your player moves up the ladder, the more you will realize that this is a business and personal feelings often seem to be placed on the back burner.

I think there is a reason why coaches do not contact players, but to understand the reason you have to understand how it works. I do beleive that the door remains open in case the coaches number 1,2,3 etc doesn't commit. That's why it is all about numbers.

That's why it is SO important not to have your son check his email 20 times a day, day after day but to actively continue to seek out all possibilities. Sit down with them before the process begins to explain how you think things work, adding in that most coaches do not have intentions of intentionally ignoring them, that's just how it is.

Keep in mind that you are in HS baseball frame of mind but they are in college baseball business frame of mind. That usually helps to take those bitter feelings away (and yes we have all had those feelings).

Plenty of folks here have come on to tell us that a coach that had shown interest in their player but cooled down, suddenly contacted him again. It happens!

Coaches have alternate plans, therefore so should the recruit. Smile

Good advice BOF, hope all is well!
Last edited by TPM
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
BOF: Great post...

It's not just about the numbers 35, 25, 11.7 and (I think) 25%, which us engineering geeks would think of as 'position' but it's also a function of time.

As the college coach starts receiving answers, a few "No's" suddenly change the equation. An unexpected or discounted "Yes" changes the equation in the other direction.

Former Coach Anderson at Nebraska said it best, "We have to like you, you have to like us and the timing has to work for both of us". The timing part is the total wildcard which can drive a recruit (and parent) crazy.
ShelbyShelby1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
The farther your player moves up the ladder, the more you will realize that this is a business and personal feelings often seem to be placed on the back burner.

I think there is a reason why coaches do not contact players, but to understand the reason you have to understand how it works. I do beleive that the door remains open in case the coaches number 1,2,3 etc doesn't commit. That's why it is all about numbers.

That's why it is SO important not to have your son check his email 20 times a day, day after day but to actively continue to seek out all possibilities. Sit down with them before the process begins to explain how you think things work, adding in that most coaches do not have intentions of intentionally ignoring them, that's just how it is.

Keep in mind that you are in HS baseball frame of mind but they are in college baseball business frame of mind. That usually helps to take those bitter feelings away (and yes we have all had those feelings).

Plenty of folks here have come on to tell us that a coach that had shown interest in their player but cooled down, suddenly contacted him again. It happens!

Coaches have alternate plans, therefore so should the recruit. Smile

Good advice BOF, hope all is well!


TPM: Forgive my ignorance... But, couldn't that same thought process work against the favor of a Coach? For instance, say the kid checking his once regular emails of interest from a Coach, say it's actually "thee" school the kid really wants to go to & play for. And after awhile, he "assumes" he must be toast & no longer a factor for the Coach, as a prospect. So, in his efforts to continue searching for a fit, another school recruits & gets him to sign a LOI. Meanwhile, the original Coach that had been actively communicating with the kid, his #1, 2 & 3 fall through. So, it's too late for the Coach & too late for the kid, having the opportunity to have gone to the school of his 1st choice. Where as a little continued email communication, the kid may of held out a little longer.
Ryanrod23Ryanrod231,000+ posts
HOF post BOF...Makes a whole lot of sense..Nothing personal and it's just business...What we learned is to never turn down any opportunity unless you already signed on the dotted line.

We appreciate a coach for letting a potential recruit know that they don't have room for him in their roster. We appreciate a coach even better who shows unwavering interest and goes above and beyond what is expected of him to express not only interest for the player but also reaches out to us parents and includes us in the equation. These coaches are few and far between.

However, it does not end with coach liking the player and player/family liking the coach...you still have to make the grade (NUMBERS) and get admitted to the university and once admitted, crunch the NUMBERS to hopefully pay for it.
Last edited by Ryanrod23
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Shelby:
TPM: Forgive my ignorance... But, couldn't that same thought process work against the favor of a Coach? For instance, say the kid checking his once regular emails of interest from a Coach, say it's actually "thee" school the kid really wants to go to & play for. And after awhile, he "assumes" he must be toast & no longer a factor for the Coach, as a prospect. So, in his efforts to continue searching for a fit, another school recruits & gets him to sign a LOI. Meanwhile, the original Coach that had been actively communicating with the kid, his #1, 2 & 3 fall through. So, it's too late for the Coach & too late for the kid, having the opportunity to have gone to the school of his 1st choice. Where as a little continued email communication, the kid may of held out a little longer.


Everyone is different and everyone perceives things differently. If a recruit becomes upset because THE coach from THE school (he has gotten excited about) isn't treating him the way he or his parents feel he should be, then perhaps the recruit needs to seek out other possibilities that make him feel better and more comfortable.

As an example, the dream school of sons, kind of ignored him, then contacted him, then ignored him, then called and extended a scholarhip offer along with an official visit. He politely turned them down, he was already being recruited by other coaches he felt better about. He didn't take it personal. Maybe someone else would have jumped on it, but by that time in the process he had a good idea of what to expect.
JMO
Last edited by TPM
N njbb1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Shelby:
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
The farther your player moves up the ladder, the more you will realize that this is a business and personal feelings often seem to be placed on the back burner.

I think there is a reason why coaches do not contact players, but to understand the reason you have to understand how it works. I do beleive that the door remains open in case the coaches number 1,2,3 etc doesn't commit. That's why it is all about numbers.

That's why it is SO important not to have your son check his email 20 times a day, day after day but to actively continue to seek out all possibilities. Sit down with them before the process begins to explain how you think things work, adding in that most coaches do not have intentions of intentionally ignoring them, that's just how it is.

Keep in mind that you are in HS baseball frame of mind but they are in college baseball business frame of mind. That usually helps to take those bitter feelings away (and yes we have all had those feelings).

Plenty of folks here have come on to tell us that a coach that had shown interest in their player but cooled down, suddenly contacted him again. It happens!

Coaches have alternate plans, therefore so should the recruit. Smile

Good advice BOF, hope all is well!


TPM: Forgive my ignorance... But, couldn't that same thought process work against the favor of a Coach? For instance, say the kid checking his once regular emails of interest from a Coach, say it's actually "thee" school the kid really wants to go to & play for. And after awhile, he "assumes" he must be toast & no longer a factor for the Coach, as a prospect. So, in his efforts to continue searching for a fit, another school recruits & gets him to sign a LOI. Meanwhile, the original Coach that had been actively communicating with the kid, his #1, 2 & 3 fall through. So, it's too late for the Coach & too late for the kid, having the opportunity to have gone to the school of his 1st choice. Where as a little continued email communication, the kid may of held out a little longer.


I think the players are at a disadvantage because there are many more players than schools. After you get passed the top tier players there is a large group of players that coaches could select from. So he is not worried about the # 4th pick cause he may have 10 #4 picks.
W warningtrack100+ posts
Timing - this so important. You can want to go to school xyz real bad. You can be a great player, have the grades and the coach loves you. BUT, if he has that position covered with a current player the "timing" is not right.

In my sons case the coach was looking for a certain type player. He happened to be a "fit" for that coach. The "timing" was right....it not always is.
RB Rockford Baseball Mom100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by warningtrack:
Timing - this so important. You can want to go to school xyz real bad. You can be a great player, have the grades and the coach loves you. BUT, if he has that position covered with a current player the "timing" is not right.

In my sons case the coach was looking for a certain type player. He happened to be a "fit" for that coach. The "timing" was right....it not always is.


Recruiting coordinator and head coach at a D-I in our state told us precisely this in the parent/player meeting at their showcase. "Just because you aren't the best fit for what we need for our program doesn't mean you couldn't play at a similar school, or for us in any other given year. It just means that your skills and our specific needs don't happen to match this year." He also went on to say that is why it's so important to keep those relationships . . . the coaches all know each other and they do want good competition, so if they know of a good player they can't use, they will mention that kid to another coach who may have that particular need.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
Obviously the coach's responsibility is to his team. If he had to call every recruit he talked to let him know where he stood at a particular time he would lose many recruits. "Sorry I haven't corresponded in a while but you are now the 4th SS on my list" Boom, that recruit goes to his next choice. If the next week that same SS is up to # 1 because he lost #1-3 then the coach loses him also.

It is in the coach's best interest to tell recruits only what the coach feels is best for him. Just like it is for a recruit to do what is best for himself. For most recruits the schools are in the better position so we all better get used to it and not let our feelings get in the way of this recruiting business.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
a few things here---always remember that college base3ball is a business----when you interview for a job do all companies contact after the interview to inform you that you did not get the position?--in my world very few do---same with the collge baseball scene and why does a college coach have to be sensitive to a players feelings? that is fairyland thinking--- ihavew one thru the recruiting process with two sons and a stepson and the fact is that it is a very cold and harshprocess---it is what is and do not expect it to change just for you
BOFBOF10,000+ posts
I did not figure this out until late in the process, and once I did I stopped getting my feelings hurt when a program that was talking to my son suddenly stopped. TPM hits the nail when she said this is the first time parents and players go from a High School frame of mind to a College business frame of mind. Also njbb pointed out there are more capable players than there are slots. It really hit home this fall looking at the various programs, and who they signed, and how those signings affect the freshmen players that my son played with last year. Right now all they are thinking about is who is above them and how can they earn a spot, and I am sure they are not even considering “Johnny AFLAC” who just signed with their program who plays their position.

As TPM pointed out the numbers game just keeps getting more intense as you move through and up into pro ball. There will only be 9 on the field for each college team this February, with 26 sitting on the bench wanting to be one of those 9. I am hoping that my son will be one of the 9, but I won’t get my feelings hurt if he is not. I have already booked two trips to see the team play, I will be cheering for all of the kids regardless.

Again all of you who are in the middle of your search, remember it’s just a numbers game and not to get your feelings hurt. Make sure you are working enough options and have a plan A,B,C and it will work out.
R RedSoxFan21500+ posts
Pretty much all true but it only makes you appreciate the true gentleman coaches out there who get their impact on a young person and takes the time, even via a form email, to alert players who expressed high interest yet didn't make it to the point of a first set of NLI invites. Its a courtesy that has become lost too often in our society, and by virtue of some of the posts here, we are all sadly getting used to it.

As to other comments I think the truest one for all those less than top tier recruits is to understand that it is still very early in the process for most of them. They may still 'get the call' as time marches into the spring and for most of them they do not need to make a decision until May 1. This still gives time for coaches to call or players to get themselves exposed.

They should remain focused on what school fits them best for education and social development, and then winnow it down by virtue of baseball opportunity.

Get a few Admissions acceptances in your pocket, then relight contacts with the baseball coaches at programs, particularly D3s, where you still have a shot.

If baseball is your top driver, (careful, it could all end in one injury), there are plenty of schools looking for moderately good players to develop.
S SpeedsDad10+ posts
This topic is ironic seeing as over the next few days my son will be calling the Coaches who have recruited him and offered him roster spots to tell them he has chosen another school. He is dreading these calls because he feels he has developed relationships with these Coaches and that he is letting them down. From this website i realized this was a business but still having never been through this process I was amazed how good your boy "feeling wanted" actually was.
But I don't understand not returning emails, especially because this is a "business". Even if it is a semi form response I believe the better practice would be to at least acknowledge the kids who have shown interest in your program. I have seen many posts here that stress how small the baseball coaches community is, the player and parent community is pretty small too. A brief pleasant "thanks but no thanks" response wouldn't require a great deal of effort but would save a kid hours, days maybe weeks of anxiously waiting for a response that is never coming. I own my own business and ignoring potential customers is not good business.
L like2rake1,000+ posts
I agree Speeds ~ College baseball may be a business, but it is decidedly a small business when put into perspective. Sure a coach may get what seems in his world/viewpoint to be a lot of emails/calls/data from players, but certainly the volume hitting his in-box pales in comparison to what virtually any mid-tier manager who works in a large matrixed corporation receives every day.

It is a manageable volume of communication for those who care to make the effort.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
njbb,
It can be compared to dating with many claiming once they get to school the honeymoon is over. Wink

Must be me and my expectations, maybe after you have been through ot your perspective changes, but I wouldn't expect that a coach that has been sending emails to my son and maybe 25+ others for awhile to send him one saying they are no longer interested. I don't consider emails to be serious in nature other than the get to know you factor. If that is all that has taken place, I feel they would owe son nothing. But I would expect and demand that my player make the (few) calls that he has to.

I would, expect, that if my player had been on a visit and coaches had come to see him play, and strongly indicated a possible spot, a phone call should be in order, but I don't think that most coaches let it go that far to begin with, do they?
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
a few things here---always remember that college base3ball is a business----when you interview for a job do all companies contact after the interview to inform you that you did not get the position?--in my world very few do---same with the collge baseball scene and why does a college coach have to be sensitive to a players feelings? that is fairyland thinking--- ihavew one thru the recruiting process with two sons and a stepson and the fact is that it is a very cold and harshprocess---it is what is and do not expect it to change just for you


We don't agree often but you are correct.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
a few things here---always remember that college baseball is a business----when you interview for a job do all companies contact after the interview to inform you that you did not get the position?--in my world very few do---same with the collge baseball scene and why does a college coach have to be sensitive to a players feelings? that is fairyland thinking--- ihavew one thru the recruiting process with two sons and a stepson and the fact is that it is a very cold and harshprocess---it is what is and do not expect it to change just for you


We don't agree often but you are correct.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
...with everyone, excellent post BOF! Having gone through the highs and lows last year with my son (and sharing some PM's with you regarding our kid's journey), and trying to understand why University ABC and XYZ was no longer interested? It's definitely a numbers game, and while sometimes your original "Dream School" doesn't come calling, it ends up working out for the best in the long run. You know what? The numbers game doesn't stop once your son signs and walks on campus as a student-athlete. There are always new recruits coming in trying to take his job. Case in point, my son is a freshman in college. He just rapped up his first fall playing college baseball this afternoon, and I find myself reading about the incoming recruiting class for the 2013 season...yep, "It's about the numbers" alright!

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