Jaw dropper...then a reality check

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I found it not only concerning that some of the strongest men in our country reach these low personal depths, but also a realization that it can happen to anyone, at any time.

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we should still understand that those may be the same traits that lead to the sad finish of our strongest citizens lives.

Sometimes great people suffer from depression and thoughts of suicide. As a society we must understand that strong people,sometimes cover up a lot of their emotions.Be diligent to talk to your kids and really listen.I find it very sad that these young men/or women are taking their lives.My prayers go out to their families, and to all our troops families. It scares me as to what these young people are going through for us, will they be able to return to normal lives,without the constant horror of things they might have seen. God bless our troops

What a boring life I live. I'm sitting here watching C-Span and the debate over the stimulus package and of course there is no mention of any of that money being directed towards our soldiers. I understand this money is to revive our economy, but I cannot think of a group of people who need help more than these young and brave soldiers coming back from some of the most horrific scenes they will ever experience. Both sides of the aisle need to come together and start treating these men and women for what they are, HEROES. They should be able to get the help they need regardless of cost. That's the least we can do for them.

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Danny - Nice post.

Military Investigates West Point Suicides

This is from a Washington Post article of Jan 30, 2009

There have been 7 attempted suicides this year at The Point. This year, the administration there decided to do away with all three day weekends. They've compressed the academic schedule to try and fit more in. They've also added additional mandatory summer military training. In order for my son to get to play summer baseball for one year between Junior and Senior year, he is forced to cram another summer military assignment into this summer. He will be home a total of 8 days this summer.

West Point has given the cadets back their 3 day weekends on holidays for next year as a result of the suicide attempts.

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There have been 7 attempted suicides this year at The Point.

Thanks CPLZ for the fact that this is not only a post-combat related issue. My initial point was that we look at our soldiers as the not only warriors but some of the most mentally fit young people of our society. If they have issues that results in the ultimate price to pay, how close to the edge is many of our youth today in general.

We often speak of the "helicopter parent", "living their dream parent", and the "expecting to much parent." These are all relatively new parental "tags" that do not have the clinical conclusions to how it affects the personality of the young adult. I guess you could say that the "beauty pageant parent", the "cheerleader parent" are some examples of the dominant parent relationships and we've read of many of those results. But seldom is heard of the competitive athlete mindset. IMO, with the high price and competitive expectations of today's select baseball teams there may be more psychological issues in the future.

This by no means a scare tactic, rather food for thought.

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how close to the edge is many of our youth today in general.

Earlier in the week, a 10 year old boy in Evanston, Illinois, committed suicide.
Here's the story.

So sad. All of this is just so sad.

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But seldom is heard of the competitive athlete mindset. IMO, with the high price and competitive expectations of today's select baseball teams there may be more psychological issues in the future.

You may be right rz1. But I think there's an argument to be made that the mental toughness that comes from competitive select sports in general creates an emotional toughness to be far more successful in life. Maybe it's the news I watch, papers I read, but youth suicide problems I hear of don't often deal with kids in sports and are most often kids not involved in sports. I think the competitiveness can be carried too far for too long to excessive stress levels...and that's what I think we see in military. It's sad.

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Tx-Husker quote:
mental toughness that comes from competitive select sports in general creates an emotional toughness to be far more successful in life.

That was my point......I think. The ultimate competitive toughness is military driven, and the suicide numbers are leaning away from where I thought they'd be. The mental toughness that comes from competitive select sports dwarfs in comparison to that of the military IMHO, and those military suicide numbers were not there 30 years ago as they are today.

Since I have a son in the military (and another that played baseball) I found this interesting. There will be millions spent on the analyzation of this but I'll give you the .50 cent version. I think the polarization of our country plays a big part. The disgust that some politicians have for the American solider became obvious during the elections. The words of "We support the troops but not the war" is "mumbo jumbo" talk that rings hollow. When a solider lays it all on the line for our country and the now President of the US echos the sentiments of many when he says our servicemen are: ---- "just air-raiding villages and killing civilians" has to be very frustrating and depressing to those that serve. There's no way we can sidestep the influence political rhetoric plays in this. Whether we like it or not we are the protectors of the free world and our soldiers are given the job to do just that. But instead of using the most sophisticated weaponry in the world to control the outcome of conflicts, we have a "loose cannon" firing innuendoes that inflicts severe collateral damage.
God bless America,
Fungo

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Originally posted by Fungo:
Since I have a son in the military (and another that played baseball) I found this interesting. There will be millions spent on the analyzation of this but I'll give you the .50 cent version. I think the polarization of our country plays a big part. The disgust that some politicians have for the American solider became obvious during the elections. The words of "We support the troops but not the war" is "mumbo jumbo" talk that rings hollow. When a solider lays it all on the line for our country and the now President of the US echos the sentiments of many when he says our servicemen are: ---- "just air-raiding villages and killing civilians" has to be very frustrating and depressing to those that serve. There's no way we can sidestep the influence political rhetoric plays in this. Whether we like it or not we are the protectors of the free world and our soldiers are given the job to do just that. But instead of using the most sophisticated weaponry in the world to control the outcome of conflicts, we have a "loose cannon" firing innuendoes that inflicts severe collateral damage.
God bless America,
Fungo

Don't normally reply using quotes, but this bears reading again.

Well said Fungo. I agree wholeheartedly. Kind of like how our troops were treated when returning from Nam.

Fungo,

I agree with you only to the point that there is a huge political divide in this nation. I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with the rest of your statements, and especially the ‘loose cannon’ crack. For the record, here's the entire quote that you have cherry picked to make your point. "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous pressure over there." That's not exactly an indictment of the troops.
Once a unifying message for Americans, "if you're not for us you're against us" has been co-opted by some on the right and used as a weapon against citizens who may voice disagreement with flawed foreign policy. Is that not divisive? Remember there are a lot of Dems fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan too.

Listen to the POTUS' entire body of work Fungo, and you'll find a man who's been quite respectful and supportive of our troops. Unpatriotic? Disrespectful of our troops? Hardly. Give him half a chance and I think you'll find this Commander in Chief to be a highly regarded and beloved leader of our great country.
I know that you served courageously in the mother of all screwed up wars and I respect you immensely for that. But your comments here are speculative and assuredly partisan. I don't see how can you scapegoat a new administration for a complex and befuddling issue that has existed in every war ever fought, including WII, and left so many experts without a reasonable explanation. You of all people, Fungo, know that war is most certainly and undeniably H E L L.
God bless you and your brave son.

Fungo, perception is reality as far as the troops are concerned and I think your post does represent what many of them perceive. We live in Dallas and DFW airport is one of the two initial drop points when the troops return to the US. My son's gone with school mates of his to welcome home the troops several times now. It still stuns me that the troops are actually surprised that anyone cares and anyone would actually welcome them home. He's told me you can read their lips and see the genuine look of shock on their face...and it's not just a few, it's most of them. That's really sad and I think speaks to the mindset you are describing. I thank your son and the thousands like him who put their lives on hold and on the line for all of us sofa critics stateside.

With respect, Fungo, when that truncated quote was bandied about during the campaign, General McKiernan publically allowed as it was basically true --- civilian deaths in Afghanistan were outdistancing hostile deaths. Throughout the campaign, and now, Obama has been in favor of the goals in Afghanistan based on the location of planners and backers of the WTC attack. Remember when he got himself in trouble with the opposition for talking about attacks on Al Qaeda in Pakistan?

You can not possibly be relating the suicides to an election.
Your going to blame a President thats been in office for less then a month.

Oh give me a break.

God help us.

EH

It would not be the fact that our Military has lowered the bar on entry into the services.
Just to fill the recruiting requirement.

Which war, there's 2 were fighting right now.
One's going to end, Why?

Because the problems in Iraq are enternal.
And they have had long enough to get thier country in order.
Without us babysitting them.

Now the focus will be were it always should of been in the first place.
Afghanistan and the automous regions of Pakistan.

EH

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You can not possibly be relating the suicides to an election.
Your going to blame a President thats been in office for less then a month.

Oh give me a break.

That's not what he said, EH. He said the election highlighted the problem, not created it. Maybe you should give Fungo a break.

Fungo

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But instead of using the most sophisticated weaponry in the world to control the outcome of conflicts, we have a "loose cannon" firing innuendoes that inflicts severe collateral damage.

No, Tx
I read what I read into exactly what Fungo meant.

He want's to blame somebody,

By taking things out of context.


I've tried not to get into a Political P*****G match, Here on the HSBBW.

But I'm getting tired of hearing all the BS.

I'd rather have a open and honest President that speaks his mind.

Rather then a I don't care what I do my friends are getting rich
Dishonest President that did not give a Rats A$$ about his own country.

EH

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Originally posted by theEH:
I'd rather have a open and honest President that speaks his mind.

And I want Cabinet members who pay their taxes!

Sorry EH...couldn't pass on that one!

Hey GW don't we all.

We have problems in this country, and we have a President thats trying to fix them.
Let's at least give them a chance.

Now back to the original intent of this thread.

Why are we having a large number of suicides.

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Well said my friend!

From the article:

"The 2008 suicide rate of 20.2 per 100,000 marked a historic high for the Army, and for the first time since the Vietnam War era it surpassed the overall U.S. rate for people of similar ages and backgrounds: 19.5 per 100,000 in 2005, the latest year for which the statistic is available. "

To answer the question, I would say a start might be to look at what's similar about the two time periods where the highs occurred...Vietnam and now.

I believe the lowering of standards for entree in to the Military and the Draft back in the Vietnam era could be a good place to start.

Your getting individuals that may not be capable of handling the stress and despair they feel there in.

Translating that to college or any stressful environment, it's a recipe for disaster.

Non of us or immune from this happening to you or a Family member.
and I would hope that we can recognize the symptoms early enough that we can get help for those inflicted.

EH

There are so many factors that could contribute to this suicide rate. Have they looked into the effect of retinol(sp.)and other drugs being prescribed to children at an unbelievable rate. If a child comes to school with a twitch he is prescribed ADHD drugs the next day. Acutane is known to cause suicidal tendencies, yet getting rid of acne seems more important. I think the overdosing of prescription drugs to children could be a huge factor in the rise of suicide in teens. But that's another topic.

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I'd rather have a open and honest President that speaks his mind.

I agree, too bad we'll never see the day.