jealous kids and parents

Tell him to just keep looking forward. Eventually they will be way in his past.

Last year, freshman year my son got in his first fight. He finally took all he was going to take from a kid who had been on him for five years. He always knew he could pound the kid out. I told him not to bother. He made the mistake of fighting in school after being provoked. He pummeled the kid until he had to be pulled away. It was five years of anger. He was suspended from the team for two games. The following week he got to hear the following words when the varsity shortstop got hurt ....

Varsity Coach: "I would have called you up (from JV) and started you two games. The problem is it would send the wrong message to the other players in the program regarding discipline and citizenship."

So I asked my son if it was worth pounding out a weinie who could never do anything more than get in his head, given the consequences.

rjm

the moral of the story is..............you break the rules you pay the price? again and again.

while it does feel good to stand up to someone like that. not alway's the wise thing to do.

whbaseball11,

Sorry to hear about your son's difficulty, we don't know what the issue is with your son and the other guys, but I have always find it better not to discuss your success off the field vs demonstrate your successes on the field.

I hate a snitch........However in this case, the incident, parties involved, and history has to be fleshed out to the school principle and/or the AD. This is something that could explode into a real mess for your son, the other kids, the team, and the school.

Get this out in the open and let those in charge resolve it. If your son is the victim, let it be known there are issues. He's the only one that can really lose in this situation.

This isn't about jealous kids and parents, this was about your son losing his temper. That was wrong, even if your son was the victim. I know sometimes it is very difficult to walk away, to ignore, especially for a young player. Rz is correct, those that have the most to lose are more at risk than those that don't.

A hard lesson for a young man to learn.
College won't get easier.
Talk with your son.
Make sure he can see & understands the bigger picture.

quote:

its been the same group of kids and parents that have been doing this for the last 8 or so years

( Sometimes adults act like immature juveniles themselves. Its never a pretty sight, but its always gonna be there, somewhere. Unfortunately.)

quote:

this was about your son losing his temper. That was wrong,

We haven't walked in the kids or the parents shoes to be able to say the boy was at fault for turning aggressive. With 8-10 years of turning the other cheek can get really old and very frustrating. Compile it with a "bad day", or, friends ridiculing you for not standing up for yourself and you will find most competitive teenage boys will have a "that's enough" point.

Many here will say "my son would never do that", but this is something that Junior is not going to come home a talk about over dinner. Most boys have had a testosterone situation that us parents have not found out about. Maybe in a dugout, maybe at a party, a dance, pickup bbgame, who knows. Maybe it wasn';t a fight, maybe wrestling on the ground, maybe a good shove, or maybe just backing someone up against a wall. The level of physical response cannot be graded. You either reacted or you turned the other cheek, and if your boy turned the other cheek everytime he was challenge he should be up for sainthood. I'm going to go with the "boys will be boys" mentality and that's why mom/dad have to step in, not to protect the boy, but protect the boys future.

Do I condone the action, absolutely not. Do I find it a realistic response to a situation, might be, but I wasn't there to see how the real story played out.

quote:

This isn't about jealous kids and parents, this was about your son losing his temper.

I agree. ALL kids find themselves in the same position as your son. How THEY handle it makes them either rise above it or become part of it. I NEVER suggested turning the other cheek. This would suggest that it's OK to be physically abused. Instead I tried to explain (with my limited knowledge) why other kids and parents act as they do. If he can understand why someone acts like an a$$ then that allows him to keep his emotions in check. The old playground chant of "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me" is a simple thing but says a lot.
My son had his bat tossed in the port-a-potti as a freshman in high school. This happened because he batted in the 4 hole and displaced upper class-men and led the team in every offensive category. I had to explain to him that he needed to see the positive through the **** on his bat. I explained that compliments come in strange ways and he could expect more if he continued to play well. ALMOST everybody loves a winner!
Fungo

quote:

ALMOST everybody loves a winner!

Except for the guy on the bench who can't beat out the winner and his parents in the stands calling the coach an idiot.

Overall we don't really know the situation and we can only give our personal viewpoints as to how to handle a situation. Turning the other cheek will be more successful in handling situations than anything else. But it's the hardest thing in the world to do. Deep down in everyone is a desire to prove wrong what someone says about us.

I am absolutely horrible at turning the other cheek because I have to get the last word in regardless. I wish I wasn't like that but I am and it has gotten me into some trouble quite a bit. Maybe it goes back to what my parents told me - don't ever start anything but if someone does start something then you better finish it. That was the only advice I ever got about fighting from my parents.

Some kids ridicule and belittle others because they are VERY insecure because they have seen they aren't quite as good as they thought. Mom and dad have told them how great they are, how smart they are and how everyone is not as good as they are. But they step onto the field, court, classroom or wherever and they can see finally they aren't that great person. So the defense mechanism they employ is bring them down so they can feel better about seeing others fail. They don't really put themselves out there because they can't handle failure but they are the first ones to point out how you couldn't get it done.

Honestly, best way to shut them up is to make sure you succeed.

quote:

Honestly, best way to shut them up is to make sure you succeed.

That is it in a nutshell!!!

Thank you all for your reply's, i'am just a mom that had to blow off some steam, and a rather come on here to get some points of view, i am so glad i found this web site by mistake, thank you all

whbaseball11,

First of all, Welcome aboard HSBBW! I don't think your having found this site was a mistake. It was fate. Run with your good fortune and learn from these kind folks here because there is indeed so much to learn.

As for your son's situation, I'd suggest he wins over his detractors by walking up to them unannounced and complimenting them on the right hook they threw. Something like, "Wow, I've never had anyone hit me that hard before". He'd surprise them and perhaps win them over. As Jesus says, love your enemies.

Michael Phelps is probably a good story for you and your son to look into... he was ridiculed during his school days. He turned his focus into positive work and benefitted.

There are kids out there that are very good at getting under other kids' skin and twisting the knife.... hopefully your son can keep this thing from spiraling out of control... best wishes.

Parenting ain't easy even if some of the parents on a discussion board or any parenting book you read make it sound like they and their children are perfect.

and welcome to hsbb web. best wishes

While all this advice has been good and honorable I'm more curious as to what everyone is jealous about and how it lasts for 10 years.
Friends and teammates come and go so I would think this boy has not been associating with the same kids all this time.
Jealousy of an athelete can happen but how does it last so long with one kid?

"Tell him to just keep looking forward. Eventually they will be way in his past.

Last year, freshman year my son got in his first fight. He finally took all he was going to take from a kid who had been on him for five years. He always knew he could pound the kid out. I told him not to bother. He made the mistake of fighting in school after being provoked. He pummeled the kid until he had to be pulled away. It was five years of anger. He was suspended from the team for two games. The following week he got to hear the following words when the varsity shortstop got hurt ....

Varsity Coach: "I would have called you up (from JV) and started you two games. The problem is it would send the wrong message to the other players in the program regarding discipline and citizenship."

So I asked my son if it was worth pounding out a weinie who could never do anything more than get in his head, given the consequences."

RJM, I'll bet that kid doesn't pick on your son anymore.

"Maybe it goes back to what my parents told me - don't ever start anything but if someone does start something then you better finish it."

Coach, I agree with this 100%. It is always what I have told my kids. Each of them had gotten into a fight in elementary school after being hit or pushed by another student. I will support whatever the school decides, but did not punish my kids. Since that time, neither one has had problems with "bully" kids.

Don't get me wrong, I do not promote fighting. If my kids were the ones instigating, there would be big problems, but if it is in response to an unprovoked attack, you must defend yourself or the taunting will never end.

I know this is not exactly politically correct, but I am kind of old school about this issue.

Turn the cheek as long as you can, but if someone else starts, you have to finish.

bballman

quote:

you have to finish.

You can " finish " things without physically fighting back.

If a player physically goes after everyone/anyone who taunts him,...its my opinion that he wont have much left for the field.
Certainly won't get the opportunity if he's injured, suspended, or kicked off the team.

Who's " won ", then?
That brings about a whole new meaning to being " finished ", doesnt it.

coach2709

quote:

best way to shut them up is to make sure you succeed.

Good advice!

First of all, I didn't say anyone who taunts him. I said if it gets physical, you don't back down. I think the longer it goes on, the more likely it will continue. At some point a kid has to stand up for himself. No amount of success is going to fix that.

Dear bballdad,

quote:

First of all, I didn't say anyone who taunts him.

I dont believe I said that you did.

quote:

At some point a kid has to stand up for himself.

I think its fair to say that you and I have different ideas/opinions as to how a kid can successfully stand up for him/herself.

HSBBW,

I have a red head.
He's taken his fair share over the years.
Had a speech impediment early on to add to the equation.

He got smart and he worked hard.
Punched the bullies in the mouth by hitting it over the fence or leading his team for most tackles. ( Not tootin' his horn. Just making a point. Re-directed aggression. A direction that personally benefited him well. )

He's off playing college ball now.
Livin' the dream and battlin' hard.

And those childhood bullies? Where are they?
I'm glad to say, we haven't a clue.

What I do know, is that there will be others. Hanging around the corner and the next unexpected one after that.
There always is.
The difference now is, rather than fear them or worry about them, the only brief emotion that comes to mind is pitty.

I never had a fight in school. I hit them so hard they never got up.

I got into a fight with a senior at my school last year at a football game and because of that I got into a fight in the cafeteria with a friend of his and it nearly ruined my life. I got suspeneded and almost got kicked off of the baseball team. It was easily the stupidest thing I have ever done. I made a horrible mistake and learned from it. The rest of the year I just kept my mouth shut and stayed out of trouble. I suggest your son do the same and he'll be fine. It all gets better.

Actually my son enjoyed the comments....he enjoyed the fact he didn't have to do a thing and he was in their heads...

Sorry guys, maybe I am out of touch. Since all these years I've been watching our HS baseball team, talking to players and asking questions. I've never found a sigle "Bad" kid, they are all very polite, nice and following orders from their coaches, I never heard anybody badmouthing other players. Am I living in a different world or what? They are just so nice that I am falling love with the team.

I don't think "jealous kids" is a problem in our HS team. I am not sure about the "jealous parents", there are some parnets who would brag their kids all day long in front of me, make me feel a little bit tired of them. Other than that, I don't see a whole lot problems in our HS baseball team.

Yea, as far as our baseball team, I have never had a problem with one fo my team mates and we're all pretty close.

There are times when you can't get away from a fight. If you defend yourself and do not go beyod necessary force to defend yourself , you will not get in trouble. Even the law allows you a shot to defend yourself. Throw that extra puch and you are in trouble.
Knowing how to defend yourself is important. My son never had a problem at school and was never challenged. I always talked to him because bullying is an offense here.
The only time I ever got past the 1st blow was after graduating from collede while studying in England. I was minding my own business having a great time with twin sisters from Ireland in a local pub. We were laughing and having a great time. We were approached by a woman who was accusing me of laughing at her. I told her I never even knew she was there. I was polite and finally told her to get lost. I noticed about 10 people in a group and they were holding back this skin head. Finally he bruke lose and came to the table and started calling me every name in the book. The guys friends dragged him away and the twins said lets go to your place and get out of here. We walked outside and the skin head charged out to confront me. He then grabbed my collar and tried to head but me. I drove my left hand into his throad and dropped him to the ground. I wasn/t even mad. He got up which I couldn't believe and I started throwing left jabbs to his face kncking him back each time. He then tried to head but me again and I dropped him again and sat on him. I put him up in front of a mini and hammered him. I had to pick him up and move him as the mini was moving back with each shot. I finally started to walk away and he came again and I repeated the scenario again and 1 of his friends started to ling me up for a kick in the head while I was kneeling over this guy. I was ready for him but some Aussies stepped in and stopped him. The paddy wagon came and the aussies surrounded me and wisked me through the crowd. The Bobbies released this guy and I went to a restaurant a friend owned. They cleaned me up and when I went out the rwins were still there so we continued out walk to my place. We turned a corner and then I heard this guy coming again running down the street. I told the twins to go home and I turned to face this guy. He tried to head but me again and I grabbed him and threw him onto a stone fence and you could hear the glass imbedded on the fence ripping his coat. I then put him in the gutter which was full of rotten leaves and hammered him again until the paddy wagon came. My clothers were ruined and the guy was going on about he didn't realise how tough I was. During the last bit his wife ran up and tried to hit me with her umbrella and yelling You beat my old man up. I grabbed the umbrella and snapped it in two.
The weird part was I wasn't even mad at this point and even told him you haven't even got mt attention yet. He was at least 5 years old and from Nwe Glasgow. I asked the Bobbies why they let him go and all they could say was that I won the fight and offered me a ride home. I couldn't believe it. I hurt for a monthe after that and had to watch my back every time I went to that pub.
There are times when you have no choice and I have always tried to talk my way out of a situation. In that situation I was little scared because I wasn't drenalined up. Every thing I hit him with he kept coming at me . My left jabs were almost knocking him off his feet and he just kept coming.

quote:

Originally posted by kbat2012:
Sorry guys, maybe I am out of touch. Since all these years I've been watching our HS baseball team, talking to players and asking questions. I've never found a sigle "Bad" kid, they are all very polite, nice and following orders from their coaches, I never heard anybody badmouthing other players. Am I living in a different world or what? They are just so nice that I am falling love with the team.

We have a huge problem at our high school. We have the "travel" crowd and the "anti-travel" crowd. Many of the anti-travel player parents won't root for the kids playing travel or talk to their parents. The two groups don't sit anywhere near each other.

These anti-travel parents think the parents of travel kids have ruined the local programs. What they don't understand is THEY ruined the programs by driving away the best players with their daddyball coaching and politicallly dominating the youth sports boards for the benefit of their kids.

My son takes a lot of **** since I formed the first travel team for my son's age group and have helped the following age groups form a travel teams. There are parents I used to coach rec ball with who won't talk to me anymore. It's my fault the local teams have lost talent. My son has been confronted by adults and been sneered at with "So you're too good to play with the rest of the kids."

My son and the two others from the high school playing on our travel team are the only three freshman who made JV. They will be the only sophs starting on varsity next year. I believe the level of competition in travel and the coaching staff I put together advanced them a year in their quest to start for varsity.

There's another element involved. The rec ball coach/parents used to own the varsity head coach. He was fired after seventeen losing seasons in twenty years by the new AD. There's a new sheriff in town (new coach) and he's blowing off the daddyball coach's advice and telling the kids they need to play the best possible competition in summer ball even if it means looking outside their town. We have "The Jury" (rec ball daddy coaches) who stand in the same area every game second guessing the head coach. I want to tell them the program will be fine once their kids graduate and better trained talent comes up.

rjm

in responce to your last post.having climbed the levels of ball with my son's, it is to bad for your community.

this is just my opinion, and i'm from a small community. there comes a time you have to play for yourself ,your good enough and have the drive to succeed. those players don't NEED travel. sure it helps but it's the person that drives the goal.
but your high school program NEEDS all the players to improve. it sounds like nobody understands this, like trying to get all the kids playing together in the summer,get them all better coaching, build a program. that helps everyone get better,and biulds community spirit.

but i don't know how big your school or community is. we have tried to keep kids together playing as long as they can. we have recently had sucess at all levels, and credit is taken from everywhere. that's fine if the program is helping kids climb the ladder.

maybe you can be the voice of reason?

quote:

this is just my opinion, and i'm from a small community. there comes a time you have to play for yourself ,your good enough and have the drive to succeed. those players don't NEED travel. sure it helps but it's the person that drives the goal

20dad hit it on the nut about playing for yourself. For those small towns or areas of the country that do not have the travel ball influence you need to take a little different path. In my sons case we didn't have travel ball and in the summer he played "up" locally and had the complete support of his HS teammates and their parents because they knew that his experience playing with older guys was going to make them a better HS team. Players understood and accepted the fact that baseball was not their destiny and they ended up being, and still are my sons biggest support group and best friends.

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Michael Phelps is probably a good story for you and your son to look into... he was ridiculed during his school days.

Having coached Michael Phelps on land when he was a young teenager, his Mom, his friends & I have a drastically different view point than you.

OBTW: As a growing teenager, Michael Phelps was much better in water (pool) than land (diamond)!

cheers
Bear

I still can't understand how a kid can be teased for 10 years by "jealous kids and parents".
I live in a realitively large suburban town that had over 1000 kids in the rec BB program. Their were alot of very good players and 10X that of average and below average players. I have never heard of this situation occuring. If a kid left to pay travel or played rec and travel their might have been some rumbling from kids and parents about egoes and such but nothing major. After 12yo BB most of the better players left to play travel. A non issue! M
Most parents and kids don't "hang out" at games, or anywhere else, with people they think are a wholes.
IMO if a kid is teased or harrassed for 10 years, although I don't agree or condone it, he has to have some responsibility for it continue for so long. Does he brag alot, does he trash talk all the time. There has to be more to this situation.

BHD,

What about those Irish twins?????

please finish the story.

(use the men's forum if necessary. )

If someone's provoking a fight and it's nothing but words, you can choose to ignore it and make the antagonizer look like a fool. However once they get physical, all bets are off and if the kid gets pummelled, then so what. If it costs a game or 2, then big deal. As long as you're the one ending the fight an not starting it, it's ok.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
rjm

.... your high school program NEEDS all the players to improve. it sounds like nobody understands this, like trying to get all the kids playing together in the summer,get them all better coaching, build a program. that helps everyone get better,and biulds community spirit.

but i don't know how big your school or community is. we have tried to keep kids together playing as long as they can. we have recently had sucess at all levels, and credit is taken from everywhere. that's fine if the program is helping kids climb the ladder.

maybe you can be the voice of reason?

We can't get all the high school players on one Legion team. About half the talent in our area atend private schools. Only half the high school players make Legion. Besides the Legion team is coached by three daddyball coaches with four sons playing. I watched in amusement one day while the head coach was teaching his players how to hit linear.

Placing a high school program in travel would be sending them off to slaughter. Travel teams accumulate talent from far and wide. A high school team can't compete. Our 16U team full of fifteen year olds from nine different high schools could give a lot of high school programs (not the good ones) a run for their money.

The head coach understands the issue. He told me he has to build a mindset from the bottom up and wait for the parents of some of the current juniors and seniors to leave via their son's graduation. What he doesn't want to do is penalize kids/[players for their parents poor attitudes.

The irony is one of my biggest detractors just had his son join a travel team since he's drawn no college interest playing high school and Legion heading into senior year.

kbat,

If that's your experience, thank your high school coaches. I would be willing to wager there were trouble prospects in the tryout pool, but your coaches looked into the reputations for each kid and then made cut decisions accordingly.

The team chemistry you enjoy is not mere happenstance.

Other teams are not so lucky. If you haven't noticed that, I recommend that when you go to away games, you sit in the home stands sometimes. It's a real eye-opener!

quote:

We can't get all the high school players on one Legion team.

Getting all the high school players on one team would be difficult because of the legion politics, daddyball and high school coach not having a grasp on his program or lack of a program..

Infield those Irish twins were long gone the next day. In London they came and they went. It was the South African girls (Dutch Africans)the next night but no more skin head. I was a little nervous he might come back to extract some revenge.