We have a son that has been asked to play on a team in this Summer's JO in Florida. My question to anyone out there is - Would it be better to go to a good showcase or participate in the JO?
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The junior olympic tournament will get you the most visibilty by scouts, there are tons at this camp. Make sure you discuss with the coach the playing time that your son will see. Last season we switched teams at the last minute as the team we signed up with withdrew due to lack of participants and we ended up playing on another recommended team and the playing time was minimal. They were considered "courtesy" players for a summer travel team. Ask up front so your not disappointed in the end.
Illinirock,
Thank's for the info and advice. We will ask the question about playing time, they can have as many as 20 kids on the roster.
Thank's for the info and advice. We will ask the question about playing time, they can have as many as 20 kids on the roster.
I'm going to disagree on this one. The Junior Olympic tournaments East & West are for 16U players. Most players will be sophomores or younger. While these are great tournaments to go to with great competition, plus a chance to play on the USA team ...... they are not great scouting events. Players are just too young yet. If your reason for playing is to see scouts in the seats, top-level players would do better to attend a national showcase. BUT, if you're 16U, I suggest going to the JO and having fun. Time enough to worry about "being seen"! 
RHP05Parent,
Thanks for clearing that up. Often people are talked into thinking there are a ton of scouts and college coaches at the JOs. Nothing could be further from the truth.
We have been scouting the JO's, helping USA Baseball, for several years and are usually one of very few groups who do.
We lend USA Baseball, guns, other equipment and staff in order to help them be able to select players. It's a lot of fun and we get to see some of the top young players in the country.
USA Baseball selects a number of participants from the JO's to invite to their trials. From these players they select their Youth National Team each year.
It's also true that the JO's are important events with great competition in that age bracket. Glad to see someone who has been through the whole thing, speak up with the truth!
ps. I see where your son's college is off to a good start this year. Best of luck.
Thanks for clearing that up. Often people are talked into thinking there are a ton of scouts and college coaches at the JOs. Nothing could be further from the truth.
We have been scouting the JO's, helping USA Baseball, for several years and are usually one of very few groups who do.
We lend USA Baseball, guns, other equipment and staff in order to help them be able to select players. It's a lot of fun and we get to see some of the top young players in the country.
USA Baseball selects a number of participants from the JO's to invite to their trials. From these players they select their Youth National Team each year.
It's also true that the JO's are important events with great competition in that age bracket. Glad to see someone who has been through the whole thing, speak up with the truth!
ps. I see where your son's college is off to a good start this year. Best of luck.
Thank you for the timely post. My son, too, has been invited to play on a JO team and at the same time, the PG & WWBA Wood Bat Tourney.. We have been wrestling with this in our mind trying to figure out which venue would help him improve as a player. He is young yet, so we would not be going to either event with the hopes of being seen. Rather, I see each event as an opportunity to improve your individual game by seeing a different variety of pitchers as normal, different coaching and game setting, and yes, in both locations, different weather and climate conditions!!! Maybe I am seeing this wrong, but at 15 he is still improving and should be focused on becoming more solid, not who is seeing him from the stands.
Thx Jerry! 
My 2007 played in the JO (Arizona) last June as a young 16-year old and in a showcase event held immediately afterwards in the same location.
He performed well in both events.
Thereafter, he began receiving recruiting letters from numerous D-1 programs including several which played in the 2005 CWS.
Many of the schools contacting him are in Calif. where we live.
We assumed all the schools had seen him at the showcase event (I noticed scouts from most of the schools which later contacted him at the showcase) but one recruiting coordinator from a major program who has called our son's coach & reviewed video told us he saw our son at the JO.
We haven't polled all the schools recruiting our son to ask where they first saw him.
Our son has subsequently played in a few other regional & national events, but the JO was one of his -- and our -- most enjoyable baseball experiences.
Scouting exposure sometimes comes unexpectedly.
This fall our son played in a tournament where I noticed only a few college scouts, and they didn't seem to be all that interested in the players on my son's travel team. However, my son was contacted a few days later by the recruiting coordinator of another 2005 CWS participant who had seen him play at that very
tournament -- and we later learned from our son's coach that the scout had talked to him extensively about my son and several other players on the team.
He performed well in both events.
Thereafter, he began receiving recruiting letters from numerous D-1 programs including several which played in the 2005 CWS.
Many of the schools contacting him are in Calif. where we live.
We assumed all the schools had seen him at the showcase event (I noticed scouts from most of the schools which later contacted him at the showcase) but one recruiting coordinator from a major program who has called our son's coach & reviewed video told us he saw our son at the JO.
We haven't polled all the schools recruiting our son to ask where they first saw him.
Our son has subsequently played in a few other regional & national events, but the JO was one of his -- and our -- most enjoyable baseball experiences.
Scouting exposure sometimes comes unexpectedly.
This fall our son played in a tournament where I noticed only a few college scouts, and they didn't seem to be all that interested in the players on my son's travel team. However, my son was contacted a few days later by the recruiting coordinator of another 2005 CWS participant who had seen him play at that very
tournament -- and we later learned from our son's coach that the scout had talked to him extensively about my son and several other players on the team.
Maybe the JO tournament is not as highly scouted as some of the Perfect Game events, but if you perform at the JO tournament it may get you on the radar maps of some of the major DI schools. If you are fortunate enough to make the JO trials there will be a tremendous amount of scouts at that event as compared to the the IBAF World Championships when played outside of the USA.
Making the CBC (Can't Beat Cuba) Youth National Team try outs in Arizona will get you on the radar of many colleges.
If you are too old for the eligibility, you'd be better off playing for a team that forms the CBC Junior National Team.
Your performance there will determine how much interest colleges will have in you.
The tournament itself means little outside of defeating the only quality team there, Cuba.
If you are too old for the eligibility, you'd be better off playing for a team that forms the CBC Junior National Team.
Your performance there will determine how much interest colleges will have in you.
The tournament itself means little outside of defeating the only quality team there, Cuba.
In defense of last year's Youth National Team, I understand that Robert Stock was holding Cuba down pretty well until they encountered an extraordinary rain delay. Normally in conditions like that, they would've called it a day and come back the next day, but in this case it was the finals and the tourney was scheduled to end, so they waited around all day to play it. Stock returned after the lengthy delay but must've lost something in the layoff, because they nicked him just enough to get out front and I think the final was only 5-1.
Cuba is clearly the tough competition in the tourney, but don't sell our boys short. Cuba also knows they have to beat us to win it all, and I'm sure they don't take us lightly!
Cuba is clearly the tough competition in the tourney, but don't sell our boys short. Cuba also knows they have to beat us to win it all, and I'm sure they don't take us lightly!
Last year the score was 5 - 0.
Cuba sufferred the same rain delay.
They scored five runs off CBC pitching and were gifted further by multiple CBC errors.
Cuba sufferred the same rain delay.
They scored five runs off CBC pitching and were gifted further by multiple CBC errors.
I seem to be missing something here about your quote, "They scored five runs off CBC pitching and were gifted further by multiple CBC errors." Please explain.
In addition to the lengthy rain delay, a contributing factor to Robert Stock loosing something was maybe the day before he started and pitched 3-4 innings. There was enough pitching & hitting outside of Stock that USA could've gotten by Japan without using him the day before.
There was an article in ESPN the Magazine about a couple of the Cubans that played, one in particular Vitiero they play professional ball down there. The Fernandez kid that pitched was bar none the best pitcher in the tourney including any on the USA team.
In addition to the lengthy rain delay, a contributing factor to Robert Stock loosing something was maybe the day before he started and pitched 3-4 innings. There was enough pitching & hitting outside of Stock that USA could've gotten by Japan without using him the day before.
There was an article in ESPN the Magazine about a couple of the Cubans that played, one in particular Vitiero they play professional ball down there. The Fernandez kid that pitched was bar none the best pitcher in the tourney including any on the USA team.
CBC = Can't Beat Cuba
2005
Cuba 5, Youth National 0
Score by Innings R H E
---------------------------------------------
Cuba..................... 000 300 200 0 - 5 9 0
USA Youth National.. 000 000 000 X - 0 4 3
---------------------------------------------
Cuba 2, Junior National 1
Score by Innings R H E
-------------------------------------------
USA Junior Team..... 000 001 000 - 1 6 1
Cuba Junior Team.... 002 000 00X - 2 11 2
-------------------------------------------
2005
Cuba 5, Youth National 0
Score by Innings R H E
---------------------------------------------
Cuba..................... 000 300 200 0 - 5 9 0
USA Youth National.. 000 000 000 X - 0 4 3
---------------------------------------------
Cuba 2, Junior National 1
Score by Innings R H E
-------------------------------------------
USA Junior Team..... 000 001 000 - 1 6 1
Cuba Junior Team.... 002 000 00X - 2 11 2
-------------------------------------------
I will say they had Tim Melville fresh, but they didn't use him until the last inning. An earlier entry by him might've kept them in it. I hear great things about Robert Stock and understand he has earned all the accolades he gets, but if you haven't seen Melville, you're missing out. He's an '08 and I'd wager, a first rounder. Fastball 92-93, slider, curve, change, excellent control, excellent poise, knows what he's doing out there.
Some very good players
but the bottom line is they
Can't Beat Cuba.
but the bottom line is they
Can't Beat Cuba.
IMO, the Junior Olympics are a very good tournament for all players. You don't have to be selected to the Youth National Team to gain valuable experience that will improve the players game.
With regards to the "Can't Beat Cuba" statements:
1. It's difficult to select the team. If a players is not on the radar and they have a great tournament the chances are still remote that they will be selected for the trials and team. It's a big help if you play for a coach that is well respected by the USA Baseball people. There is nothing wrong with how they select the team, they just are not going to take chances on kids they don't know anything about prior to the tournament.
2. The other national teams (Cuba) are selected and play together for a much longer period of time than the USA team does. If the USA team was selected and played together until the tournament they would be much better.
3. Some of the players did not play up to their potential and that did not help. However, the USA team still managed a silver medal in the world which is very good.
With regards to the "Can't Beat Cuba" statements:
1. It's difficult to select the team. If a players is not on the radar and they have a great tournament the chances are still remote that they will be selected for the trials and team. It's a big help if you play for a coach that is well respected by the USA Baseball people. There is nothing wrong with how they select the team, they just are not going to take chances on kids they don't know anything about prior to the tournament.
2. The other national teams (Cuba) are selected and play together for a much longer period of time than the USA team does. If the USA team was selected and played together until the tournament they would be much better.
3. Some of the players did not play up to their potential and that did not help. However, the USA team still managed a silver medal in the world which is very good.
In reality , it is a two team tournament.
The fact of the matter is
They Can't Beat Cuba
The fact of the matter is
They Can't Beat Cuba
What's all the anemosity towards the USA team? Did someone you know not get selected?
As a citizen of the USA, I expect that we send the best quality teams to represent the nation in OUR national past time.
In 21 years of these tournaments, we as a nation have won five times.
What's wrong with this picture?
In 21 years of these tournaments, we as a nation have won five times.
What's wrong with this picture?
WillieBobo..
Did you read what cbg wrote? Baseball is a "team" sport, and to function (in full gear) as a team it takes time.. the Cuban kids are certainly good, but they also play together longer.
If you're trying to say the Cubans are better baseball players, you're dead-flat wrong. I saw the (pro-level) Cubans play Puerto Rico in the WBC a few days ago and they got walloped.
Point is, the Cuban players are good.. even as good.. but not better. Their teams might play better, but that's different. Don't short-sell the USA kids.
Did you read what cbg wrote? Baseball is a "team" sport, and to function (in full gear) as a team it takes time.. the Cuban kids are certainly good, but they also play together longer.
If you're trying to say the Cubans are better baseball players, you're dead-flat wrong. I saw the (pro-level) Cubans play Puerto Rico in the WBC a few days ago and they got walloped.
Point is, the Cuban players are good.. even as good.. but not better. Their teams might play better, but that's different. Don't short-sell the USA kids.
I don't criticize the kids, I criticize the selection process.
If we take comparative population, Cuba has a population of approximately 11.4 million people. We have a population of 295.7 million people.
It is clear that we have a pool of talent at least 26 times greater than Cuba. Are our kids not as good or is the sample too small?
The only logical deduction that we can make if we are sending our best is that Cuba with its limilted population is inherently better at our national pastime than we are.
As long as the players are within the age allowance, it does not matter where they play or on what team they play.
As the International Olympic Committee noted, we are not sending our best. Or as noted in the last games, we did not use the talent that we sent to optimum levels.
If we take comparative population, Cuba has a population of approximately 11.4 million people. We have a population of 295.7 million people.
It is clear that we have a pool of talent at least 26 times greater than Cuba. Are our kids not as good or is the sample too small?
The only logical deduction that we can make if we are sending our best is that Cuba with its limilted population is inherently better at our national pastime than we are.
As long as the players are within the age allowance, it does not matter where they play or on what team they play.
As the International Olympic Committee noted, we are not sending our best. Or as noted in the last games, we did not use the talent that we sent to optimum levels.
WillieBobo,
With all due respect, you're wrong again. I remember back in the '60's and '70's when the same argument was made about how "superior" Russian athletes were in the Olympics. True, they were superior, but only at the amateur level.
Go to Circus Circus in Las Vegas and see the Chinese acrobats. They train everyday as a TEAM.. that's why they are better. Would it be wise to say the Chinese are naturally better at acrobatics?
Like acrobatics, baseball is a unique sport.
There is very little difference between a AA player and, say, a AAA player. Maybe size and age. Maybe a .270 batting average compared to a .280 average (what's that, one hit in 100?).
Since the difference is so small, it's not really the greater INDIVIDUAL skill level that wins championships at events like this, but the greater TEAM skill level.
If you take a great coach (e.g., Lou Piniella or Joe Torre) and pick 25 "best of the best" Americans ballplayers, train them, let them play together everyday, would you really bet for Cuba to beat the American squad in a best of seven series? Are you serious? I'd bet my house against yours--and undoubtedly win.
See, baseball is the great equalizer. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. That's why baseball has the World SERIES and not a Super Bowl.
To draw the conclusions you have drawn is fundamentally erroneous. America is the birthplace of baseball. But that's not what makes us better. It's because we have the freedom to choose from baseball, basketball, or the myriad other sports.
Put your chin up. You're an American. It's no shame to lose the WBC. If anything, this event has helped spread the gospel of baseball.
With all due respect, you're wrong again. I remember back in the '60's and '70's when the same argument was made about how "superior" Russian athletes were in the Olympics. True, they were superior, but only at the amateur level.
Go to Circus Circus in Las Vegas and see the Chinese acrobats. They train everyday as a TEAM.. that's why they are better. Would it be wise to say the Chinese are naturally better at acrobatics?
Like acrobatics, baseball is a unique sport.
There is very little difference between a AA player and, say, a AAA player. Maybe size and age. Maybe a .270 batting average compared to a .280 average (what's that, one hit in 100?).
Since the difference is so small, it's not really the greater INDIVIDUAL skill level that wins championships at events like this, but the greater TEAM skill level.
If you take a great coach (e.g., Lou Piniella or Joe Torre) and pick 25 "best of the best" Americans ballplayers, train them, let them play together everyday, would you really bet for Cuba to beat the American squad in a best of seven series? Are you serious? I'd bet my house against yours--and undoubtedly win.
See, baseball is the great equalizer. Anyone can beat anyone on any given day. That's why baseball has the World SERIES and not a Super Bowl.
To draw the conclusions you have drawn is fundamentally erroneous. America is the birthplace of baseball. But that's not what makes us better. It's because we have the freedom to choose from baseball, basketball, or the myriad other sports.
Put your chin up. You're an American. It's no shame to lose the WBC. If anything, this event has helped spread the gospel of baseball.
My conclusions are based on the facts.
Your supposition that 'team play' makes all the difference is without basis.
Team play has an effect on defense in the execution of double plays for example.
Team play has no effect on hitting.
The Japaneese team does not play together regularly.
The examples you mention support my conclusion. The USSR was superior in the events over the athletes that we sent to represent this nation.
The next example of sending the best manager and the 25 best ballplayers is not who we send.
This is why the selection process is flawed.
The Chineese are the best acrobatic team that I have ever seen. With all the multiple squads that they have appearing the world over, there is no comparison to any other national team. The team aspect is far different and the comparison to baseball is far fetched.
We consistently lose to Cuba in baseball at every level of play. We lose at the Youth National, Junior National and Olympic levels.
These are the facts.
Your supposition that 'team play' makes all the difference is without basis.
Team play has an effect on defense in the execution of double plays for example.
Team play has no effect on hitting.
The Japaneese team does not play together regularly.
The examples you mention support my conclusion. The USSR was superior in the events over the athletes that we sent to represent this nation.
The next example of sending the best manager and the 25 best ballplayers is not who we send.
This is why the selection process is flawed.
The Chineese are the best acrobatic team that I have ever seen. With all the multiple squads that they have appearing the world over, there is no comparison to any other national team. The team aspect is far different and the comparison to baseball is far fetched.
We consistently lose to Cuba in baseball at every level of play. We lose at the Youth National, Junior National and Olympic levels.
These are the facts.
The USSR athletes were juiced. They were superior to what? Often our amateur athletes only. Certainly not our professionals, at least in most sports. The modern Olympics (a concoction of the British) excluded the professional athletes up until only recently. This was done because England knew it would be no contest (for them) otherwise. As soon as the pros were allowed, we dominated.
It's unfortunate that you seem fixated on the Cubans. Their level of play is tremendous, but their pitching does not stack up to the USA, Japan, or even Korea.
They are good because of middle-infield play, again, a team quality. As for hitting, I believe the Japanese taught them a lesson or two in that regard. (And the U.S. for that matter.)
If you want to berate the selection process, begin by offering a superior alternative. USA Baseball attempts to offer kids from the entire country a chance to be seen. I'm sure they would be interested in your ideas. Be constructive and offer them.
I'm done here WillieBobo. You may continue your mission to convince the world that Cuban baseball is somehow superior. Sorry pal, not biting.
It's unfortunate that you seem fixated on the Cubans. Their level of play is tremendous, but their pitching does not stack up to the USA, Japan, or even Korea.
They are good because of middle-infield play, again, a team quality. As for hitting, I believe the Japanese taught them a lesson or two in that regard. (And the U.S. for that matter.)
If you want to berate the selection process, begin by offering a superior alternative. USA Baseball attempts to offer kids from the entire country a chance to be seen. I'm sure they would be interested in your ideas. Be constructive and offer them.
I'm done here WillieBobo. You may continue your mission to convince the world that Cuban baseball is somehow superior. Sorry pal, not biting.
MR BOBO
May I ask what is your fixation on continuing to berate American players as you do ?
May I ask what is your fixation on continuing to berate American players as you do ?
You misunderstand my point.
I am of the opinion that we could and should field a team capable of winning the gold medal in any and all baseball tournaments.
I find it disgraceful that such little effort is made in choosing and/or fielding the most awe inspiring national teams each and every year.
If I expect too much in respresenting this great nation, so be it.
I am of the opinion that we could and should field a team capable of winning the gold medal in any and all baseball tournaments.
I find it disgraceful that such little effort is made in choosing and/or fielding the most awe inspiring national teams each and every year.
If I expect too much in respresenting this great nation, so be it.
