Joe Morgan says....

Most of the time most people are muscularly out of balance-(prepare for soapbox)-which a lot of times is caused from athletic "coaches" coaching athletes when they themselves are not athletes.

Big quads=no hamstrings
Ripped stomach=no low back strength
Big biceps=not triceps
Big chest=no back or rear shoulders

I use the term "big" loosely.

With regards to the overtraining and not enough rest-don't buy into that either. I don't know of a lot of people that truly push themselves this hard.

FWIW Michael Phelps trained EVERY day for 5 years in a row without a rest day. Not Christmas, Thanksgiving, his birthday, etc-EVERY day. Didn't seem to bother him.

Lance Armstrong is another who trained and trained. I guess there will always be exceptions. Probably the injuries are due to a combination of several things.

Lance and Mike Phelps had total control over their workout schedules. A team sport is different with all the travel and you'll sacrifice your body for the team; go out there and do the best you can and give what you have.

The Olympians are individuals...

i do think there is a difference.

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Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Lance and Mike Phelps had total control over their workout schedules. A team sport is different with all the travel and you'll sacrifice your body for the team; go out there and do the best you can and give what you have.

The Olympians are individuals...

i do think there is a difference.

You're right because Lance and Mike didn't and don't travel at all. Give me a break.

There is no difference.

And then we have the cancer situation with Lance.

That ability to work out so often without breaking down is what makes those two so unique. If you take MLB there are a few players out there who could work out that hard that often without breaking down and lots more who can't. There were also a few who used PEDs to allow them to work out that hard.

Zack's dad: my point is the individual (and their staff) align their workouts and their travel and competitions in a way that is much different than MLB, NBA or NHL guys who face crazy travel schedules.

of course they travel; but only on their terms, when it benefits them... if they have an injury or a time crunch they can easily cancel whatever they need to and re-align their training regimes.

Muscle imbalances are the chief cuplrit, IMO, and over conditioning certain muscle groups (and not others) can exacerbate a condition. That said, I don't know that any one workout will do anything negative. It is the accumulation of multiple workouts that can change the balance between training and recovery.

Athletes don't get stronger when they train, the get stronger when they recover (when the body "overcompensates"). I think that we sometimes forget that when we are playing a baseball game and performing baseball-related movements that we are doing one big plyometric exercise (after another. and another). Additional training, up to a point, can be helpful to performance, but only up to and until it interferes with recovery.

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of course they travel; but only on their terms, when it benefits them... if they have an injury or a time crunch they can easily cancel whatever they need to and re-align their training regimes.

I wouldn't say they only travel on "their" terms. The Tour won't be rescheduled, the Olympics won't be rescheduled.

Then there are talk shows, public appearances, commercial shoots, etc.

This was my point. In many ways their travel schedules are worse than MLB players-not as long-but physically worse.

most everything you read touts the benefits of rest.

The problem is that with all the demanding schedules it is hard to get much rest.

quote:

Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
most everything you read touts the benefits of rest.

The problem is that with all the demanding schedules it is hard to get much rest.

What type of rest are we talking about here?

The op's original text implies training 4 years for the olympics, peaking in 2 weeks, then taking a rest which is the type of rest I was referring to in my first post. I think you are talking about "daily" rest.

If an athlete takes in the proper nutrition and gets enough daily rest, there really isn't a reason to take a "break" (an extended period of time when an athlete does nothing).

well ... the Olympics occur every four years, I don't think that most athletes train without rest for four years for that one event. It's a buildup - with meets and events in between. So they might train intensively for 6 months before, compete, then rest. MLB trains intensively in the Spring (if not before) then competes in April, May, June, July, August, September, and hopefully October. They are expected to be at their peak for each game. Obviously MP and LA are exceptions as is Cal Ripken.


I wonder if we will see begin to see a change back to the slimmer player in the MLB? One who is in good shape - more for endurance rather than max power?

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I wonder if we will see begin to see a change back to the slimmer player in the MLB? One who is in good shape - more for endurance rather than max power?

I wouldn't think so because with the exception of the pitcher and catcher baseball is not an endurance type sport it doesn't matter how long the season is.

My thoughts on injuries in bb is that players do not play as "hard" as what they use to (this combined with the muscular imbalances). Example is Johnny hits routine ground balls and fly balls and trots to first. Then Johnny hits a slow roller to 3rd and he actually sprints all out to first and pulls up with a lame hamstring. And you can train hard and often but game time is a different scenario.

Endurance probably isn't the best choice to describe baseball but I can see why people use it. In it's own way it is an endurance sport even if it's not the typical aerobic exercise that goes along with endurance.

As for this statement....

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My thoughts on injuries in bb is that players do not play as "hard" as what they use to (this combined with the muscular imbalances).

I can see this at the lower levels but good DI schools and professionals I doubt that the muscle imbalance happens much. No way the schools and pro teams are going to sink that much money into players (education) and just let it happen to chance. They go after good strenght and conditioning personnel.

I think the proper term is "anaerobic endurance."

As for players not playing as hard, I think that they have always paced themselves a bit (162 game season wears on everyone). Now, I know that I am dating myself a bit (60's and 70's), but I distinctly remember my old man complaining that his "fightin' Phils" only "turned it on" during specific parts of the game.

quote:

quote:

My thoughts on injuries in bb is that players do not play as "hard" as what they use to (this combined with the muscular imbalances).

I can see this at the lower levels but good DI schools and professionals I doubt that the muscle imbalance happens much. No way the schools and pro teams are going to sink that much money into players (education) and just let it happen to chance. They go after good strenght and conditioning personnel.

Point is, is that when there is a muscular imbalance in place, it takes YEARS to correct and some will never get corrected.

What makes a good strength and conditioning coach? This is my question and it is a lot of what is wrong with youth sports today.

Is it someone who is fast, strong, well conditioned, and know what it takes to achieve this. Or is it someone that goes to school for years, has a piece of paper on the wall, and whose idea of a run is something on his wife's pantyhose.

I train at a small private gym that caters to college/semi pro athletes, powerlifters, and kettlebell lifters. The owner/trainer is a friend of mine and we have been training for about 6 years (we started in his basement LOL). Anyway, he is fairly strong, pretty quick, a ranked kettlebell lifter, and an accomplished martial arts fighter. Guess what, he doesn't have the "degree" to go along with it.

He applied about 2 years ago to be the s&c coach at the high school my son now goes to (a big high school with a good amount of money)-and was quickly told no because of the "no degree".

I could go on about what the idiot they hired has my son do-but I won't. A lot of what they say has the potential for serious injury and does nothing to make him a better athlete-so I just tell him to use a very light weight and do it like he says when he is looking.

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Is it someone who is fast, strong, well conditioned, and know what it takes to achieve this. Or is it someone that goes to school for years, has a piece of paper on the wall, and whose idea of a run is something on his wife's pantyhose.

Ideally someone with both clinical experience in the weight room and one who has the academic experience and a degree along with certification.

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I train at a small private gym that caters to college/semi pro athletes, powerlifters, and kettlebell lifters.

And if the owner tries coaching/instructing all of them the same way then that would be part of why he couldn't get hired..

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He applied about 2 years ago to be the s&c coach at the high school my son now goes to (a big high school with a good amount of money)-and was quickly told no because of the "no degree".

Ever heard of "liability?"

The Armstrong example is not a good one. I used to race road bikes and have followed pro racing as a fan for more than 30 years. Prior to the 1990's riders had much more demanding schedules. Why? Their income was based on winnings, and to win purses you had to race a lot. Racing was only a small step up (financially) from a blue collar job, and a hand-to-mouth existence for many. Laurent Fignon was called "The Professor" because he had a college degree, a rarity in the peleton.

That changed when Greg Lemond signed his first pro contract in the early 80's. Contract money for top riders increased four-fold almost overnight. Sponsors began focusing on the major tours, and riders used minor races as training/preparation for the big ones.

Lance (and other top names) are products and beneficiaries of that shift. They now tailor their preparation to the races they want most to win, rather than racing the entire season plus indoor racing in the winter. (IIRC, this will be the first time Lance has ever ridden two grand tours in the same season, at least with the intention of finishing.) As hard as Lance and others train, they still ride less than the racers of 30 years ago.

John

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

quote:

Is it someone who is fast, strong, well conditioned, and know what it takes to achieve this. Or is it someone that goes to school for years, has a piece of paper on the wall, and whose idea of a run is something on his wife's pantyhose.

Ideally someone with both clinical experience in the weight room and one who has the academic experience and a degree along with certification.

quote:

I train at a small private gym that caters to college/semi pro athletes, powerlifters, and kettlebell lifters.

And if the owner tries coaching/instructing all of them the same way then that would be part of why he couldn't get hired..

quote:

He applied about 2 years ago to be the s&c coach at the high school my son now goes to (a big high school with a good amount of money)-and was quickly told no because of the "no degree".

Ever heard of "liability?"

Wondered how long it would take you to get in here.

For once we somewhat agree on something-yeah the best coach would be someone that truly is an athlete and has a degree to appease the people that think you need one to be a "trainer".

He doesn't instruct them all the same-I thought you would know this since you are a "trainer".

What does liability have to do with being hired as a s&c coach for a high school? He has a personal $5 million dollar policy.

Zack squats 205lbs. Know what the current strength coach has him do for a warm up? Better yet why don't you tell me what you would have him do for a warm up?