JUCO Concerns

quote:

Originally posted by OKbaseballDad:
Seeing a LOT of JUCO's who take 40-45 players on their fall roster and then "cull them out" to around 30 by the end of the fall.

Not really interested in going to a school where they'd offer a kid and then might cut them if they had a bad fall or were injured...which seems to be the case (NAIA's seem to do this as well).

Like to think my kid wouldn't be the one cut, but you never know. What ever happened to evaluation of a player before you sign them?

Any info for someone who's been through this process?

quote:

I doubt they would cut a recruited, scholarship player but if he performs poorly in the fall he probably won't start in the spring.

So mine just found out he was one of 35 who were cut, and of course was told if he stays on campus can come out again next year...what a joke.

He's walking on to a Top 25 Division I team where he's told he won't be cut, but the worst part of the JUCO deal is that the assistant brought him in and the head coach barely watched him all fall, even though he had a 0,00 ERA.

I watched every inning he pitched in the fall and no one ever got past 2nd base in 11 innings of pitching, and 0 walks and only one HBP. But I never saw any of the coaches in the dugout writing any of these stats down.

It's MUCH worse for pitchers I've found, as they signed over 30 pitchers. He doesn't throw 90 mph, and I get that, but one kid who throws submarine couldn't find the strike zone all fall, and when he tried he gave up doubles like they were pennies.

Not sour grapes, because it worked out great that he's going to his dream school, even if he never plays, but a warning to all parents out there to check each JUCO, as some take 35 and they are on the team day one, while many take 70-plus and cut them to 35 (after they make them enroll for the spring semester).

I do understand that in some states coaches cannot oversign, so perhaps this is a good place for information for parents of HS seniors to talk about the ones who do...and who don't.

Not all Juco's bring in 50-80 players.  My son's school had 35 players this fall.  2 are gone but for problems not related to baseball.  So the trick is to check out the school and the history to see how they handle rosters.  Truth is no matter what school you go to and play ball you are subject to being cut.

At my sons JUCO, he was given a decent amount of athletic money.  His academic money more than paid for the tuition, books, fees.  he received an additional 2000 state money to apply to housing cost.   The coach did not over recruit and frankly if you did not have a 3.0 / 24 ACT he did not recruit you.

When we were deciding on a JUCO we talked to players that had played their and asked a ton of questions. 

A few schools in the same conference over recruit in the fall and then cut in Nov..... they also do not have the grade requirements either.

I know of two SEC schools that over committed this fall, over signed and then cut in the fall.... I know one player this happened to just a week ago. 

Not uncommon to see D2's and NAIA schools carry way too many players.   

We felt good about it because he was recruited, he received a lot of money for a JUCO and  if they did cut him, we already had the academic money. 

Believe me I have learned, the more academic money you can get from having good grades the more options you have when bad things happen. 

Frankly I think their should be some rules in place to not allow so many to try out in the fall. But JUCO's do not have a lot of money to recruit, so they rely on the numbers game. 

This is illustrative of one of the main reasons that a number of us continuously preach the necessity of finding time for the recruited player to have enough unsupervised time to spend with current players that he has a chance of getting some insight into what it's really like to play and go to school somewhere.

I guarantee you that, if 35 players are routinely cut after the Fall season, it shouldn't take long to find that out.

Players: Once you're seriously interested in a program/school and they seem to reciprocate the interest, DON'T BE BASHFUL!! Find a way to schedule time with current (or recent) players and ask them meaningful questions about what it's like to play and go to school there.

Not sure where to begin?Well, start with something open-ended like, "What did you find different from what you expected in your first semester?" In the right environment, it's amazing how much you can learn about a place.

It's YOUR dream that you're trying to fulfill. Take responsibility for researching all you can about the programs that interest you. It's NOT your parents' responsibility. It's on YOU.

Juco is either plan A or the fall-back plan for so many coming out of HS and for so many reasons... playing ability, injuries, lack of finances, a good fit, grades, desire or comfort level to stay local, lack of career direction, lack of planning, poor or late recruiting efforts, procrastination, desire to go one and done, cut or disgruntled with 4 yr school, being "left at the altar" during recruiting, etc.  On top of that, there are WAY more HS player that want to play college ball than there are roster spots.  JC is the least expensive option to give it a shot, whether recruited or not.  So, yes, the funnel at JC is HUGE. 

Add to that the abundance of players here in Calif. and it really gets interesting.

Cabbage went through it last year with his first JUCO, where there were over 90 players trying to make it with a strong program.  He made it through the gauntlet of cut after cut only to get hurt in the fall.  Due to circumstances based mostly around the injury, he found himself going through the process again at another JC this fall.  I thought that, while perhaps it would be a longshot because he was out so long, at least he wouldn't have to make it past so many players at the new school.  Wrong.  Coach told him between the returner/recruited group and the walk-on group, he had 100 kids.

Our son is in his 2nd year at a D2 JUCO.  He signed his NLI in May 2012.  He (and us) were sort of shocked to see 55 players on the squad that fall.  Only two were walk-ons.  By the end of the fall season about 10 had either quit or had become grade ineligible.   My son, a position player, hung in there.  Only getting an inning in here and there.  Over 17 games he had 13 plate appearances with 7 hits.  Through most of the fall he didn't make the travel squad (team only takes 25 on road trips - what the bus will hold) until the final weekend when he called to inform us he had made the travel squad and better yet they would be playing only an hour away.  His JUCO is a 4.5 hour drive away.

By spring the coach had put another 8 or so as red shirts and they were down to 35 by the opening weekend.

It was an eye opening experience to say the least.  Even though he made the squad there was no guarantee of playing time.  He had to earn it.  Though he didn't get to play his position much, he did earn his way on the starting DH.

Towards the end of the spring season, the active roster was down to about 28 or so.  There were some injuries, but most of those either quit due to no playing time or left due to off field issues.  So I can see why they over recruit.  They know they'll lose some along the way. 

I agree with Prepster.  Spending some unsupervised time with current players is a good idea.  They'll give you an inside view the coach won't necessarily give you.

It was different this year with a new coach brought in by the college.  Not as many had been recruited - only 40 on the squad in the fall.  But I believe it was just because he wasn't hired until mid-summer and the previous coach had been asked to leave days after the team was knocked out of the playoffs. 

One of my son's hs teammates is at a D3 University and they had 70 try out in the fall.  Coach only kept 35.

IMHO..I hear that some JUCO players dont even get on the field while on the team for two years.. I think you got to produce big numbers to stay on the field for two years straight.

If you don't like the numbers wait until the spring semester starts. You will be seeing some D1  kids on campus. No position is safe.

see, here's the thing. A lot of folks think going JUCO is an easy route to take. They couldn't be more wrong. Evaluating ones talent level, commitment, and drive are vitally important. At least here in Florida. Competition at Jucos here is ferocious. Recruited players, D1 drop downs, Walk ons with talent. Its crazy. Son survived that gauntlet and is now at a FL D2. But go in with eyes wide open , its no cake walk.  

No doubt.  Welcome to the real world.  It's tough to get on the field as a freshman - even at a JUCO.  But when you do, you've got to perform. 

Looking back at last years roster of my son's JUCO, there were only 9 out of 23 position players that played in more than 37 games (56 games scheduled, 53 played).  And most of those played in more than 45 games.  After that it drops - only two played in at least 20 games, and the rest in 16 games or less.

For pitchers it's even tougher.  Generally speaking, the weekend games are the conference games where the "Aces" will rotate through the weekend - usually a doubleheader on Saturday and a single game on Sunday.  Bullpen pitchers may see some action depending on how the games go.  The weekday games are where the developing pitchers get their opportunity as these are usually non-conference games.  Just my observations as a parent enjoying the games. 

My son's roommate had a 2-3 opportunities to pitch last season.  Could never get out of an inning without giving up a run or two.  After the last time, he never saw the mound again except in practice.  He quit about 3 weeks before the end of the season.

Couldn't agree more. Like Florida, California...Texas jucos are some of the best in the nation. Many guys go the juco route to stay eligible for the MLB draft, work on grades, physical development, etc. Son came out of high school weighing 142...needless to say he wasn't heavily recruited.  Went juco for 2 years...put on 20 lbs....now at D1 battling with 8 other outfielders for a starting position. Started the fall with a total of 53 guys...now down to 38...3 more cuts to go. It's tough out there. You've got to compete and grind the entire time with no let up. OkBaseballDad: I'd be leery of any coach that tells your son that he is "guaranteed" a spot or won't get cut. When it comes down to it, the best players hit the field and pretty much stay there the rest of the year unless there's an injury, grade problems, or not performing. 

Not much more to add here, some great observations. College baseball is tough, and only the toughest play. 

With you on that BOF.  The JUCO my son committed to has a reputation as being hard to get play time.  They took a great interest in my kid early, doesn't hurt being a LHP.  Even one of his HS coaches were telling him to reconsider because of how tough they are....my son just laughs.  He knows it will be hard, he told his HS coach he has no problem going and fighting for a spot, that he knows he needs to work hard and that's the kind of team he wants to be on, he wants to be with the toughest players. 

Given that information it's probably a good idea to try to get as much academic scholarship money as possible and not depend upon the baseball scholarship.

And he has a full ride with scholarships, grants, etc., and it's cheap to go to school in Oklahoma anyway, but he wants to play baseball.

After seeing all of these great responses I think I'll put together a spreadsheet of what schools in OK, TX, KS are the most egregious at oversigning. It's obviously a scam to take 40 kids you're not going to consider to help your school pay the bills when over half the kids at the school are athletes.

It's worse yet when he could have gone to another school that keeps all of the kids they sign. Some of the Kansas schools that recruited him warned us about the Oklahoma JUCO's, but it came off sounding like negative recruiting, even though they were 100% correct.

We learned our lesson, but hope with your help we can enable other parents to have the information needed to stay away from these rip-offs.

I sent you a PM

2103 had a D2 recruiting him, he liked the school, the coaches, and then he saw 58 players on the roster and said "i don't think so"

here's the one I like the most,

Dear Prospect,

We have identified you as a player with the skills to play at the next level.  We are inviting you to attend our top prospect showcase. This showcase has a limited  number of spots please act quickly do not get left out. Over half the players on our roster attended one of our camps.

It's ridiculous, preying on the emotions of players and their parents....

Why not advertise the camp as a tool to teach ?  Because there is no time to teach, the numbers would be too low, the numbers have to be high , more money.... here's your tee-shirt, you looked great, did the check clear?  good invite them again.

Not trying to hijack this thread but anyone know what percentage of d1 juco players get 100% Scholarship money.  I know they get 24 but most aren't fully funded I hear. Son got 100% offer and accepted just trying to see if that's a big deal or not.

Outfielder, your sons Juco years have prepared him for the challenge ahead and it sounds like he will do fine. Its kind of unfeeling but college baseball sometimes is Darwinism at its rawest form! Survival of the fittest.

My son was 25% athletic, 75% academic then additional money from another scholarship he applied for then state money went to him .  I don't know what the other players received.  I do know that they started with 32 players and as of yesterday due to several factors, grades attitude etc... they have 27.... of these 27, 4 are D1 transfers  this coach like a low number for some reason, not at all like other schools in his conference... this is a D1 JUCO that has been to grand junction in the past.

In Florida and I believe the NJCAA, the onlyoptions for scholarships are 50% or 100%. My guy lucked out because he qualified for Bright Futures (a Florida based scholarship program). So he got his tuition, room and board and cash from his Bright Futures. It was a good deal, those two years at JUCO.

I dont know about the 50% or a 100% I will have to ask, I know he got money back on a debit card....

I stand corrected, he recieved a 100% academic scholarship , then another scholarship for 1k and the state money for 2k.... at any rate we were glad it was free plus plus