JUCO…not good enough?

I’m not at all familiar with the JuCo scene in Cali but I am in Texas, Oklahoma, and surrounding states (to a lesser degree). My advice would be to get a baseball guy with credibility (Hs coach, travel ball coach, private instructor, area scout) to call coaches at the JuCos you are interested in and promote your kid. In Texas it’s common for HS kids to workout/tryout on the JuCo campus. I have set many of those things up and taken kids to do that. Most JuCo coaches are open to this. Why wouldn’t they be? That’s my experience anyway. Your mileage may vary,

I’ll put that advice to work, get our travel coach to make some calls and hopefully open the doors. I did hear that about the on campus workout/tryout, it’s just getting the invite. Thanks Ad for the input.

Top level JuCo ball can be as good as D1 ball. If a kid doesn’t have the size or metrics why would a high level JuCo program want him? High school batting averages don’t sell players. Metrics and showing you can play sells players. It’s all about projection.

As adbono suggested an undersized player without metrics needs an advocate who can sell “the kid can just plain play.”  Actually, everyone but a jaw dropping pro prospect needs an advocate to sell him. The reality is kids who look the part are more likely to have to prove they can’t play. Undersized kids have to prove they can play.

Piece of history: When the NorCal Phillies scout put in a report on 5-7 140 Jimmy Rollins he lied about his size. He was afraid the cross checker would refuse to make the trip.

I agree that top juco’s are right up there, so I’ve done my research to see what players they have accepted in the resent past as well as whose committing for 2022’s. I believe you and Adbono definitely hit it, especially with the Covid monkey wrench, him needing an advocate to sell him.

”kids who look the part are more likely to have to prove they can’t play. Undersized kids have to prove they can play.”

I haven’t thought of it that way but puts a better perspective on it. Very interesting fact about J.Rollins. That’s why we were hoping to buy my son some time with a Juco to gain his size, and not have to compete with the 3 yr and 4 yr(5yr-6yr) players at a university.

I think your perspective is good. I know California JuCos play good baseball but I don’t know how they line up in terms of reputation and quality of the programs, etc. I’m sure you can determine that with some research of regional knowledge if you don’t already know how they stack up. For example, in Texas the bell cow programs are McLennan and San Jacinto. Those 2 programs are regular attendees at the D1 JuCo World Series in Grand Junction, CO. They literally get the pick of the litter when it comes to recruiting and they are good enough every year to not only beat a top 25 D1 team, they often could win 2 games of a 3 game series. Last year’s National Championship McLennan team would have beaten ranked D1 Baylor 2 out of 3 IMO and could have swept all 3 if Baylor had the guts to play them. The McLennan pitching staff was far better than Baylor’s. The point I’m getting to is that just like any other level of baseball you can’t fall in love with the big name sexy program and assume that your player can get on the field there because it’s a JuCo. You would be in for a rude awakening. Find a program that’s a good fit where your son can get on the field. At a competitive JuCo program, considering the ramifications of Covid, a realistic goal for a position player is a decent amount of playing time as a freshman and a starter as a sophomore. If that’s not attainable you are at the wrong place. You have to play to get better.

Former NorCal dad here - I believe that if you're describing your son's talents accurately he can definitely find a spot at a Juco -- for the fall.  The spring is another matter.

The important thing to know about CA Juco sports recruiting is that coaches are only allowed to recruit kids in their junior college district.   So if you happen to live in the recruiting district of a powerhouse juco, it may be hard to get their attention.  But that doesn't mean you can't, and in some cases you can just show up for practice in the fall.  Some programs, even very good ones, give everyone who wants it a chance to compete for roster slots.  And often they'll keep kids with potential around for a redshirt year -- or two -- to see if they develop.  The school in our former district, Santa Rosa, is known for doing that.

But if you can't get their attention, that doesn't mean you can't find a home. While coaches at other colleges are not allowed to reach out to him, he can reach out to them.  He can contact other schools in your general area, or anywhere else in the state.  Up where we lived, if a kid could not get attention from top programs like Santa Rosa or Sacramento, he might have a better shot looking north to Mendocino, Chico, etc.  You might look out to the desert.

We never really looked at  the juco option so I don't know all the rules or ins and outs, but I'd assume that if direct emails, texts, and calls don't get any response,  getting your HS coach, travel coach, or other advocate to reach out would be the next step.  You're also going to want to get to the schools themselves and see what looks like a place where your son would like to spend the next 2 plus years.

Good luck!

For his travel ball  last year he was top 2 in avg and on base, on one of the top teams in CA

If he was on this sort of team, his coaches should be happy to talk to you about where they think he fits.  Wasn't that the point of the team?  Sounds like you haven't talked to them - that's the first thing you should do, get an honest evaluation from them.

In Norcal, you are going to find some very good JuCo competition in the Big 8 conference. That conference includes Sac City and Santa Rosa who are perennially strong programs and in the mix of the state championship talks. Sac City has the coaching history with Jerry Weinstein leading that program for many years and then Andy McKay after that. One of their former players is now the head coach. You also have programs like Consumnes River, Delta, American River, Sierra, Diablo Valley, and Modesto. These programs usually rotate as who is competing with Sac City and Santa Rosa for the top spots. Consumnes River has been very strong recently. Sierra has also been a good program over the last decade or so. American River for years used to be in dog fights with Sac City but in recent years have hit a rough patch.  The market for these schools is the greater Sacramento area. So lots of talent in that area they pull from.

Adbono,

yes definitely done the research on the local Juco scene as well as nearby state.  Know the top, mid, and lower schools. Also check their prior rosters, check the stats to see who got playing time and then pull those kids up on maxpreps to see how they did in HS and compare. It feels like Covid is having a bigger impact on 2022 then originally might of thought. It seems like he probably would be looked at by these same schools a couple years ago but possibly with so many kids in the transfer portal, these spots are getting filled by them and there’s only room for the big time studs of 2022.

Thanks JCG, need all the luck we can get. It sounds like we need to drop down one more level and contact those schools.  Playing time is most important. And definitely want to be in a good position to where he still plays at the school in spring. It feels like the wave of 4yr kids coming to Juco is getting bigger. And why would a coach take a small 18yr old over an experienced 21 yr old with man strength. I get it.

@Sandlotdad posted:

Adbono,

yes definitely done the research on the local Juco scene as well as nearby state.  Know the top, mid, and lower schools. Also check their prior rosters, check the stats to see who got playing time and then pull those kids up on maxpreps to see how they did in HS and compare. It feels like Covid is having a bigger impact on 2022 then originally might of thought. It seems like he probably would be looked at by these same schools a couple years ago but possibly with so many kids in the transfer portal, these spots are getting filled by them and there’s only room for the big time studs of 2022.

Look at neighboring states

Anotherparent,

you called it, we haven’t really talked with his coach much. He did tell us that a great D1 in the Big West was asking about son. To be honest, We’ve probably waited so long and not start conversations to try to see where he fits in. And it might be a good thing since the recruiting atmosphere is changing so much. Even If he was able to slip into the West Coast or Big West schools that were inquiring with him, He wouldn’t of got any playing time, competing with 5 and 6 yr players.

Arceku21,

Sac city and Santa Rosa would be nice, always see them at the top in the CCCAA. We’re coming to the conclusion that unless he packs on 30-40lbs in the next 3 mo’s. It’s gonna be the lower local D1 juco’s. Which is a confidence killer because he knows his glove and bat contact are at a higher caliber, but lacks the size and strength which is looked at first.

@Sandlotdad SoCal is a very small community.  Your son's HS and TB coaches are familiar with most of the programs and coaches at the JUCOs here.  They ALLLL know each other.  You need to talk to them.  I know sometimes on a strong TB team the focus can be on the dudes hunting down D1 commitments (and this summer has been especially crazy in CA! and LATE!) but you pay dues too.  Ask for your TB coach's guidance, he should be able to make a couple calls and also guide you to which programs are going to be a good fit.  Some are better known for development or strength training or networking with D1's nationally. And they are out looking right now.  I've seen some at fall HS games recently.  I know a player a lot like your son, just really needs to gain 30lbs, and he's being well received by JUCOs they are coming to see him play in the next few weeks.  It's happening for players like your son. But it's happening now.

@Sandlotdad posted:

Arceku21,

Sac city and Santa Rosa would be nice, always see them at the top in the CCCAA. We’re coming to the conclusion that unless he packs on 30-40lbs in the next 3 mo’s. It’s gonna be the lower local D1 juco’s. Which is a confidence killer because he knows his glove and bat contact are at a higher caliber, but lacks the size and strength which is looked at first.

Sounds like you are in SoCal. If you want any geographical insight some of those schools in that conference let me know. I actually played in that conference my first two years of college. Another college near the bay area that may be a suggestion is Solano College. Their coach was actually my college summer league coach. I know he turned them around when he first took over. Don't know what they have been doing recently.

@Sandlotdad posted:

So I’ve gotten a lot of great info from here( thanks community members!) but I still have questions. I have a 2022 that decided to go Juco route based on his size and academics. He’s good enough that he got the attention of a so cal D1but with gpa at 3.1 it’s a no go.

Just curious, what's wrong with a 3.1? That will get him into a school with baseball, especially a SoCal D1 - they're all good and baseball matters there

@LousyLefty  TB coach has his hands full, pretty busy with some of the kids, lots of talent, big studs. So far, there’s only been about 20 kids that have graduated  while playing TB with him, most all with D1 offers, 7 have gone on to get drafted. Had an eighth drafted mid-low round out of HS 2021 and another HS player will get drafted 2022. I know he keeps busy with his contacts.  So I just take it as if he saw a good future possibility with my son then there would be a little more of a push. I’m 6’1 210 so I’m sure my son will fill out that frame later, just a late bloomer which didn’t help. I know the coach would definitely make a call for us, I think we’re trying to figure best place for him to have best possibility of playing, once that’s determined then make a call. And you’re right, the time is now, which is why I’m reaching out to all you experienced folks for that extra input. Much appreciated. The unfortunate thing is our HS won’t be starting any games until March. TB coach is a HS coach elsewhere and that team is very active right now so not much scheduled for the actual TB team. So as of the last couple months it has just been a lot of training for my son.

@ARCEKU21 yes we’re SoCal, Riverside area. I’ve done a lot of research on the different schools and areas, it’s just getting a response has been difficult and I think that is due to  the overflow from Covid is pushing him down to lower schools.

We were timid about talking about our son with the TB organization, partly because we had no idea about how it all worked, and in hindsight I wish we had done it sooner and asked straight out for an honest evaluation and explanation of timing.  If your son has played for this coach, you absolutely should ASK him to talk to you about where he thinks your son would have the best possibility of playing, and not be intimidated because other players on the team are being drafted and your son is not.  If you think he'll tell you honestly, then you should make him part of your decision process.

@PABaseball when the West Coast D1 inquired with him, 3.1 was lower then what they wanted.

To add to the discussion on NorCal Juco's...My oldest son just finished his third year at Sac City this spring.  He showed up as a skinny, slick fielding SS that hit for a good average in high school.  After deciding to try to be a 2-way player in the fall, he was given the choice to red shirt as a position player or pitch that coming spring.  He decided to pitch.  (Thankfully)  He received a great scholarship from a great program in the Big West that projects him as a starter (he was always a closer before).  I cannot speak highly enough of the Sac City program.  But that being said, as mentioned above, Santa Rosa, Delta and Sierra are legit programs with the others popping up occasionally.  The Big 8 routinely puts one to two teams in the final 4 every year.  Youngest son is a freshman outfielder at Sac City this year and rehabbing after an internal brace and repair surgery after injuring it post senior year in high school.  Had plenty of looks from D-1's but no offers at the end of the day.  He saw the success of big brother in that program and didn't hesitate to go there.  They are a machine with development.  Every kid is always in a hurry, but if you find the right program that actually develops players and has a good reputation, those hard working kids will move on successfully. 

@anotherparent you’re absolutely right…squeaky wheel right?  I’ll reach out to him today.

@PABaseball posted:

Just curious, what's wrong with a 3.1? That will get him into a school with baseball, especially a SoCal D1 - they're all good and baseball matters there

A 3.1 is high enough to get a STUDENT into most D1 schools, but a 3.1 BASEBALL player is different.  I always find it odd that just about everyone stresses getting good grades, but almost no one ever puts that into numbers.  With all the focus we put on numbers when it comes to exit velos, 60s, etc, we seemingly don't when we're stressing getting good grades.  My 2021 (playing Juco ball) had good interest from a couple D1s.  At one point, one of them (from the AAC) told him that his grades were a big problem.  He had a 3.1.  So what's wrong with a 3.1 for a baseball recruit?  It can tie the hands of the school with regard to money they can offer.  Specifically, academic monies.  There's a lesson here.  Play college FOOTBALL!  My son actually had 3 D2 offers to kick/punt.  With those guys, his 3.1 made him an Einstein!

@latebloomer21 thanks, size and style of your 2018 SS sounds like mine. Sac City is probably out of our way but how did you get things rolling for your son there, emails to the coach?

@DanJ posted:

A 3.1 is high enough to get a STUDENT into most D1 schools, but a 3.1 BASEBALL player is different.  I always find it odd that just about everyone stresses getting good grades, but almost no one ever puts that into numbers.  With all the focus we put on numbers when it comes to exit velos, 60s, etc, we seemingly don't when we're stressing getting good grades.  My 2021 (playing Juco ball) had good interest from a couple D1s.  At one point, one of them (from the AAC) told him that his grades were a big problem.  He had a 3.1.  So what's wrong with a 3.1 for a baseball recruit?  It can tie the hands of the school with regard to money they can offer.  Specifically, academic monies.  There's a lesson here.  Play college FOOTBALL!  My son actually had 3 D2 offers to kick/punt.  With those guys, his 3.1 made him an Einstein!

In California a 3.1 sends most non-athletes to JuCo, our schools are so impacted kids graduating in the top 10% of their class have trouble getting into UC's, and CSU's are only realistic if you are in top 25%. I can think of 2 D1's that might accept students lower than 3.5 in the entire state.  (granted there are exceptions for certain majors).  It's absolutely brutal.  On the other hand JC's are free in CA so that's a silver lining to not getting into a large state school.

Play college FOOTBALL!  My son actually had 3 D2 offers to kick/punt.  With those guys, his 3.1 made him an Einstein!

Throw in a felony conviction and you have yourself a genuine football prospect.

Re 3.1 GPA …

Grade inflation is terrible now. I read an article last year 75% of high school students graduate with a 3.0 or better. So, if 3.0 places a kid in the 75% quadrant a 3.1 isn’t slotted much higher. Now toss in there’s a disproportionate number of D1 prospects versus D1 roster spots in CA.

@RJM there’s something in the water, not our water unfortunately. Son’s HS team has a 4.8, a few around 4.3, and total of about 12 above 4.0. It’s crazy, felt bad for my son as he gets it from me…AND his mother.

I would guess on average a 3.5 puts a kid in the 75th quadrant, hard to tell on a national scale with so many variations for grading.  I had a parent tell me about their kid's 5.6 GPA finally figured out it was on a 6.0 scale (never heard of that until this summer)

@Sandlotdad posted:

@latebloomer21 thanks, size and style of your 2018 SS sounds like mine. Sac City is probably out of our way but how did you get things rolling for your son there, emails to the coach?

My son's travel ball coach played there back in the day under Jerry Weinstein before he went on to have a cup of coffee in the bigs.  He recommended my oldest to look at it knowing my kid had upside, but needed time and good coaching.  So my son reached out to them via email first and that started the conversation.  I believe in CA, juco's can reach out to any recruit provided the recruit is from a county which touches the county where the school is located.  Beyond that, it is up to the kid to reach out first.  We were two counties away, so my son had to do the initial contact. 

Oh, I forgot to mention that on my son's visit to the Juco he's now attending, the HC had concerns around my kid's 3.1.  This isn't your grandfather's Juco baseball landscape!  Imagine a 3.1 being a concern at a Juco.  Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go find a whole to stick my head in. #baseballsonshame

@DanJ I thought that was the whole point of Juco for the players that need to work on their academics ??  Like you said, not the same. Interesting

My son has D1 dreams, so the Juco route made sense to keep that goal alive.  Lots of players with strong grades go the Juco route for baseball.  But now that we know his 3.1 is an issue, he's also going the Juco route to get that sucker up!  3.5+ is the goal this first semester.  His HC's goal for sophomores moving on to 4-years to finish is to get them 70% in combined academic and athletic scholarship money.  Sign me up for that please.

@Sandlotdad posted:

@DanJ I thought that was the whole point of Juco for the players that need to work on their academics ??  Like you said, not the same. Interesting

That must be for the team?  Some (all?) California jucos have an open admission policy.  You want to enroll, you enroll. 

JCG;

as you know the local SRJC is a Nationally academic ranked Community College with 19,000 students.

It is important that the baseball players "sign up" for "transferable" classes. No "basket weaving". Ask the right questions to your school advisor.

Bob

@Sandlotdad posted:

@RJM there’s something in the water, not our water unfortunately. Son’s HS team has a 4.8, a few around 4.3, and total of about 12 above 4.0. It’s crazy, felt bad for my son as he gets it from me…AND his mother.

Unless your school grades on a 5.0 scale those GPA’s are weighted. If it is scored on a 5.0 scale the colleges will scale it down to a more normal 4.0 scale. Colleges want to know unweighted GPA’s. The reason is there isn’t an across the board standard for GPA’s. Was your son’s 3.1 weighted or 3.1 out of 5.0?

My kid’s high school didn’t publicly weight GPA’s. But when a kid with a 3.5 graduated higher in his class than a kid with a 3.7 it was obvious the 3.5 was in AP, high honors or gifted and the 3.5 was general college studies.

The challenge in 2022 will be roster spots.  Basically all CCCAA schools have been shut down for 2 years.

Note, last year of the 88 schools, 39 were shut down due to covid.

Most underclass Cal Student Athletes play In CCCAA

If you look at CA Students athletes at NJCAA,  roughly 81 played NJCAA

Region 1-Arizona

Region 5-New Mexico and Western Texas had the most participation

Next week, we will be rolling out a JUCO Pipeline dashboard

Already exists

New release.

@CollegebaseballInsights great breakdown, the Juco pipeline dashboard is just what we needed.   The biggest concern of my son’s was how many kids at a particular jc went on to D1’s and which ones. I was googling each Juco kid one by one to see where they ended up. This is big time!