JV player and opportunities

Oh I have and he will make the team next year just will be on the bench.  Unless we move him which might happen for more reasons than baseball.  I plan on not saying a word and encourage my son to Man Up.  And fight for what he thinks he deserves.  He has to decide how he want to proceed.  He told me that he wants to wait to talk to the coach since he was voted as JV team captain.  So he is calling the shots.  If he doesn't want to move then we won't move him and he will have to deal with the what happens his senior year.

I personally don't think the coach is holding my son back for what we did.  I think he knows what he did was wrong and it just got a little out of hand.  He was getting beat by a 15u team and his team was more of a 16u team.  Didn't like it.  My son just happened to be there

Hypothetically speaking - let's say that you transfer schools and he still sits the bench.  Whose fault will that be then?

There is more to it.  And if he doesn't get an opportunity this year he won't next year I would take my chances elsewhere.  But its up to him.  We were thinking about moving both our kids to a private school where academics are crazy good two years ago.  So there is more to it.  My daughter get straight A's and 1/2 of them are A+'s.  So she is not being challaged.  My son on the other hand get A and B.  English and Spanish are his B subjects.  We are in contact with a college coach and like I said his pitching coach is the pitch coach to the local college which is a D1 school not saying he could make it there as he only throws low 70's  that was from a college gun at a pitching camp, but is left handed so that helps.  This is just a blip on the screen.  He has to Man Up and if the coach does what I think he will do he will play JV this year and sit the bench next.  There is a lot of history the rest of the V has with the coach and my son does not have that history.  They all played for him all through middle school and my son did not.  Outsider.  But oh well he will do fine and dominate JV which is fine. Just looking forward in seeing all of his hard work pay off.  I think he will learn from this and maybe make a good coach one day if he desires it.  He has the right temper for it.  

Not to be rude, but this may be why he's not getting that shot.  That velocity is sub par for a HS junior - lefty or not.

 

He may be best served by working his behind off to get bigger, stronger and faster so that he has the best chance of playing varsity next year.

Completely agree.  And...while I realize this is a small school so the coach may not be able to get all he desires at each position...the combination of lack of arm strength and left handed thrower suggests that the likely only spot on the field for him would be 1b.  Combine that with the fact that he is a singles hitter...well, the picture may be clearer now.  Most/any coach is looking for some power from his corner guys.  I am not trying to be rude either, just giving some good, honest assessment from the outside.

well he is an outfielder and low 70s where we are at is very common for varsity players.  He went to a college camp and 75% of the players there couldn't break 80.  So put that in perspective.  His school only has 550 on all the grades.  The fastest pitcher on varsity throws about 80 and is right handed.  after that mid 70's is very common.  His reason to make varsity is OBP not pitching he and I know he is not fast enough.  By the way one of the best left handed pitchers in D1 a couple of years ago only threw 80MPH and he played I think it was for IU.  People think they throw harder than they do. Only trust stalker guns.  

Agree. Here maybe the issue.  My son is Soph and is sitting lower 80's.  Haven't gunned him yet this season but Im putting it at 83 or 84 based on where he was at the end of last season.  BTW, he is not the hardest thrower on our team either.  Have a lefty sitting high 80s who a soph and a few others sitting low 80s.

Thats the thing we are a small rural school.  550 in the whole school.  I know for a fact we only have 1 breaking 80 and we have a lot of guys in the low to mid 70's and a lot of guys in the upper 60's.  I was at a college game Saturday and they were gunning a right hander mid to upper 80's and the lefty only threw 80 with a curve in the low 60's.  So throwing numbers around holds absolutely no wait with me.  Greg Maddux could throw faster but he didn't due to losing movement and he threw only upper 80's  Lobstien for the Tigers only throws upper 80's as well

And My son still has growing to do.  He is only 5'11 and 170 while I am 6'1 and 220 and my wife is 5'10.  And he is not even 17 yet.  I have seen a lot of pitchers from where I from and one mother thought her son threw 85 when he actually only threw 75.  And was at a camp that had some of the best local players and tops was 88 and there were only a handfull above 82.  We are in north east Indiana.  

I mean..seriously, you dont get on spot on any roster just because of speed, you got to hit the ball, and if you are a pitcher you need to get people out.

All indications to me is that he is where he belongs and at any other HS elsewhere, he might not be playing.

You talk about manning up, well I think that is something that YOU need to do! I dont mean to be rude but you need to educate yourself and realize that there is a while other world out there.

It appears to me that you came here to seel your son, maybe thinking that some college coach may be reading?  This all seems too weird!

Please whatever you do, DON'T move your family because of baseball.  There is no guarantee that he will make a team as a senior next year.

 

http://www.efastball.com/baseb...-speed-by-age-group/

Also, take a look at this yeah he is a little behind average but not much.  He was only throwing 55 as a freshman.  now low 70s not a bad jump in two years

Can you describe one or two scenarios in which you think your son can contribute at the Varsity level?  For instance, play 1B and bat 6th - then provide a brief overview of the current 1B and why your son's abilities are superior in securing a win for the team.

No could care less about a college coach just wanted to see if my thought process was right. And then got hijacked by being irritated with the coach.  Yeah there is no perfect solution.  He really already knows where he wants to go regardless of baseball  he is down to really about 4 colleges.  I was just wanting to know if others have had similar things happen and if my opportunity thoughts were accurate.  He doesn't need a scholarship to go I already have that taken care of beauty of the 529 accounts.  He knows the only way he could make a team is to walk on.  Like I said earlier we were close to moving him due to academics two years age and baseball was a plus.  I guess if I told the whole story it would be everyone would look at it and say once again politics in high school sports run a muck 

He is an outfielder never said he played 1st.  He can and will at JV because he is the best they got.  But he is a better outfielder.  As far as in the order I would say he would be a 7 or 8 or 9 man until he proved or disproved himself.  

if disproved then fine had the opportunity.  To me its all about opportunity and I think the numbers deserve opportunity.  No guarantees 

Here's some free advice - your son is not Greg Maddux, Lobstein from the Tigers, Jamie Moyer or the kid of IU.  For each guy like this who do make there are thousands who don't.  Whether it's from being lucky to being seen at the right time by the right people or whatever end of the day they shouldn't be used to justify why your son should make it.  They are the exception to the rule.  The the rule is that your son does not project very well therefore don't be surprised if he's not playing college ball at ANY level.  Maybe he hits a growth spurt and develop into what you're wanting but probably not.  He's only two inches off your height and an inch taller than your wife.  I don't see a lot more genetic opportunity in that case to grow much more.  My guess (and I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong) is that your son has either reached his baseball ceiling or he's very close to it.

 

Unrealistic expectations creates friction with coaches.  Parents / players thing they should be at such and such level when they aren't.  So when they don't get there or get the attention they feel they deserve someone needs to be blamed.  You guys are blaming the coach for where you feel he should be versus where he really is.  I can't remember who posted it but you have an average running speed, below average arm singles hitter.  I've had those kids before and I've won with those kids before but if I have a team full of them I probably don't win very many games.  That's reality.

 

To be perfectly honest - I hope I'm wrong and your son gets a fantastic opportunity to continue to play in the summer, next year and into college.  But I've been around long enough to know it's probably not going to happen.  So do you quit and give up?  Some do but I don't think you do.  I think you keep working and listening and improving because you never know when it works out and you get that once in a lifetime chance that a Jamie Moyer or IU kid gets.  If it's a dream to play college ball then go for that and work yourself to improve so much there is no doubt left (or as little doubt as you can achieve).  Make yourself so good the team can't win if you're on the bench.  This attitude is what makes you a winner in baseball and life.  This attitude will help you in your job and relationships and whatever else is important in life.  Saying a coach doesn't like you doesn't get you anywhere but being unhappy.  No offense but you and your wife yelling at the coach during that summer game is probably why your son isn't playing because he doesn't stand out.  Right or wrong doesn't matter - it's life.  In your profession if you piss off your boss how many opportunities will you get?  I'm not saying you should go groveling to the coach and beg for forgiveness - I wouldn't - but you made that bed and now you're where you are.  Hopefully, your son going to coach will help but it may not.  

 

Life is tough, getting into the starting line up is tough but you have to work at it to get anything good lin life.

There's always a whole story.

Sometimes you just got to put it away, so you can enjoy the present moments and not the past.

In our area, Jr.'s can play JV in all sports.

Is this an accurate summation, Irondad?

 

• Your son gets on base more than boys who made varsity.
• As an engineer with an analytical mind, you believe that should earn him a spot on varsity.
• You believe politics, relationships and perhaps a previous incident are the reason he’s not on varsity.

I'm tempted to assume this pretty much sums it up, and respond – but I’ll hold my tongue, and ask you to clarify anything I’ve gotten wrong. 

I don't think he has a spot he has earn an chance to prove himself for a spot. The incident I think is not relevant. And yes he gets on base a lot by line drives both apo and pull side. And it is easier to hit the ball further when you faster pitchers so it's really hard to hit home runs at jv since you have to do it with brute stregthen so I geuss let me have it just like everyone else.

No one here wants to "let you have it," Irondad. Actually, many, many, MANY here feel your pain.

 

The thing is, HSBBW is a place where the feedback is only as good as a parent's willingness to be really really clear-eyed. Honestly, it's one of the most difficult things to do. And as parents, we all understand that.

 

But one of the cold hard facts about baseball is that performance cannot be faked. I'm not saying your son is faking it -- what I'm saying is that right now, his coach has determined that he has a better chance of winning with the players he's chosen for varsity.

 

And I believe that 99% of HS coaches want to win so bad they do NOT play politics -- so I'm glad you don't think that's an issue.

 

Bottom line: If your son believes he can help the varsity team win, he needs to demonstrate it now. On JV. And if he does, he may well be the star on varsity at the end of the season.  If he doesn't, that will be clear, too. But don't look at stats as the main factor. As team captain, he has a chance to LEAD!

 

Either way -- I hope you can relax and enjoy being at the games and watching your son play baseball. Because brother, it'll be nothing but a memory before you know it.

 

I have and will enjoy the season I watch and only watch I never say a word to the coach unless asked. I won't have to see the V coach since my son plays on jv.  And he will perform because he always does his goal is to bat .500 on jv and like 20 stolen bases. His bat speed has increased a lot in the last year so we will see on slugging. and the 500 batting average will be by the schools stats not mine I am harder to impress I had him at 392 last year and the school had him at like 425. It will be an interesting year. Thanks to all for the lack of insite and information which I was hoping to get. I did get some good food for thought early on the thread but once it got hijacked by my disdain for the coach it got ugly.  I have no expectations of him playing in college if he does great if not I am sure he will find someplace to play in an adult league

 

I would think any varsity coach would want a kid on his team that can hit .500, has the speed to steal 20 bases and play a solid outfield. There must be something else that we are missing **

 

** see quote above

 

Irondad,

I'll try to provide insight from the eyes of a V coach to answer your question directly.  You are trying to correlate earned opportunity with JV batting average and OBP.  We (V coaching staff) usually don't even see JV BA and OBP numbers.  We watch a few JV games when schedules don't conflict and watch a few practices when schedules don't overlap (neither opportunity occurs very often).  We look for swings, mechanics, skills, physical strength, mental makeup, attitude and game awareness that may translate to V.  Often, a typical JV swing that produces great results against JV pitching has too many holes to succeed against V pitching.  Having a good eye at JV is nice (high OBP) but, considering the level of play, we'd rather see a kid who is aggressive and attacks every pitch in the zone.  We ask JV coach who is hitting the ball hard consistently or showing good defensive abilities or showing near-ready potential to help us on the mound.  We'll bring up a few of those kids based on our observations and JV coach recommendations at various times during the season to practice with us and perhaps participate in a few games, usually during the Easter Break tourney.  They may not even play but we get a good look at them taking practice reps with the V kids.  V positional needs are often part of the equation in bringing these kids up so sometimes the best JV kids are not the ones who get the call-up.  We never ask who has highest BA or OBP.  It often doesn't translate.

 

Then, we get another look at most of these players in our summer program (yes, I know your son wasn't chosen), then we get another look with the combined groups the following winter/spring before we break off V and JV.  THIS is when everyone gets their opportunity.  And the work they did on their own, with JV, with travel, with instructors, etc., will show up at that time.  The JV coach will never come up and say "hey, this kid has the highest OBP on JV - I think you should give him a shot."

 

Others have made very good points that I hope you are taking in a receptive manner.  You say you are a numbers guy.  The chart link you show correctly lists HS pitching FB as typically 75-85.  Your state that your son is low 70's which is below that range.  You say most kids on the V team don't top 80.  Well, there is a distinct difference between 78-79 and 72-73.  If a junior is still in the low 70's, that is telling.  If a junior is still not showing signs of any hitting power and doesn't have above-average speed, that is telling.  I think it is great that your son is getting instruction that you feel is good and I hope he will continue to respond favorably.  But don't put the blame on the coach if he is not there yet, particularly at this late juncture.

 

There are many threads here regarding transferring schools.  I think it may be helpful for you to search those and read thru them.

 

Best wishes.

Well said Cabbage Dad!

"And I believe that 99% of HS coaches want to win so bad they do NOT play politics -- so I'm glad you don't think that's an issue."

 

Great statement. But I'd qualify it by saying that most HS coaches want to win so bad that a "justification/politics effect" ensues among many parents (usually those whose sons are not getting the opportunities their parents feel they deserve) for why certain players make V, get more ABs, and playing time since most HS coaches (usually rightly so) don't explain squat to anyone about their decisions.

 

So, things like head-scratching player moves and continuous second-chances to "HC-annointed studs" who continue to stuggle are explained away--by default--as the HC is playing politics. But he is not; in reality, those on the outside looking in are. And for the stat-minded disgruntled parent, cherry-picking favorable/disfavorable stats is often a way to support a "case" for or against a given player.

It doesn't help when his freshman year a player made 5 errors in one game at 3rd base on JV and then started varsity the next week.  That is what parents see.  I'm sorry but as a parent that is a real head scratcher.  But all is good, this board just proved to me that high school sports is cut throat and I know that this is more than likely his last year for ball unless he improves enough to truly get noticed.  I asked a simple question but really its a very complex question different for every coach

In regard to the first statement highlighted above.  Coaches are looking at tools.  Anyone can have a bad day, but the coaches are looking at the tools the player has.  And apparently, this kid had the tools the coach thought could translate to the Varsity level.  

 

In regard to the second statement highlighted.  Yes it is.  And college is even more cut throat.  EVERY kid on a college team was the best in his HS.  If you read thru some college player bios, you will see that almost all of them were "All-Region", All- Conference", "All-State", etc...  Especially on the better teams of every level.  Still, your kid may sit the bench.  

 

The only way to get play time is to improve your skill set and be the guy the coach can depend on to contribute.  If he's not there yet, keep working hard to get there.

 

And you say your son is 5'11", 170 lb.  That's not a bad size, especially for a HS Junior.  My guess is he has some mechanical flaws that are preventing him from throwing harder or hitting the ball harder.  My son was around 5'9", 160 in is Junior year of HS and had 4 HRs that year.  Not that that is a huge number, but he did have the power to get some over the fence.  He was also pitching in the 86-88 range.  If you want your son to play Varsity next year, get him some pitching lessons, hitting lessons and get him some speed and agility training.  His "tools" will need to be sharpened if he wants to keep playing.  

 

It's not time to give up yet, but it is time to get to work.  Serious work if it means anything to him.  Blaming the coach for not giving him chances will do nothing but keep your son stagnant.  Get to work.  Good luck.

Excellent reply by cabbagedad.

So  am wondering, what has your son done to improve his game? Is he signed up for summerball?   Does he work on conditioning?

 

As it often happens, I guess you were expecting us to agree with you on some things that you have pointed out.

 

For goodness sakes stop bringing up the past and other players. Thats a problem right there you need to get over. 

He is working on it seeing a college pitching coach.  Working on getting more power and aggressive.  The statement of HR our biggest baddest hitter didn't hit a HR last year.  But he still was the biggest baddest hitter it happens.  He is working at it.  86-88 on speed we have NEVER had anyone at that speed close but not that fast.  82-84 max and that was several years ago.  Now 80-82 is our fastest guy then the #2 guy would be 78-80.  after that mainly mid 70's with a everyone else in the low 70's upper 60's.  Of the pitchers on JV my son is the fastest.  Of the players that will dress V and play JV he is the 2nd fastest.  Difference on 2-3 mph.  People here take only segments of what I say and not read previous statements and misconstrue and assume.  I put my son at about 12-13 if ranking the players on the team.  So right in the middle of the pack.  

TPM yes to all of them at every open gym and working with other coaches.  Its a comparison.  Unless you compare players how can you get the best player you may not think you do it but you do.  So therefore I am done with this asked a simple question and got beat up.  I guess you just have to be in my shoes and see some of the crap.  And there is a lot.  But oh well Have a good day

Take this with all the love intended...what did you want everyone to say? "Poor little Johnny, that mean old coach is just being mean to him and has his favorites.  You should go to the school board and get him fired because he is a man of hate and has no business being around kids."  Is that the answer you are truly seeking?

Look, we have all dealt with HS baseball that sucked.  I remember telling my son's varsity coach the summer before junior season "freshman and jv baseball sucked and I didn't like yall all that much".  He laughed and said, "it sucked just as much for me when me son was playing freshman and jv ballm and I was the varsity HC." 

We all get it and unless your son is a undoubted clear stud who started varsity from day one as a freshman, you are going to have some misery in HS baseball.  Man up, grab a pair, put your big girl panties on, put in your tampon, whatever expression you want to use.  It isn't about you. 

Guess what, if your son wants to play college get ready for even more frustration, excitment, nerves shot, great pride, etc because everything is magnified by x100. 

You asked a simple question and were given the same simple answer by a couple dozen people, but you didn't get the answer you wanted.   

This reminds of a story a coaching buddy told me about his coaching cousin.  Some college parents were mad about their son's playing time.  They go into the coach's office pissed off and come out all smiles.  He asked his cousin what changed? He said, "I told them what they wanted to hear and the only thing they would believe. I hated their son, I hated them, I thought he was useless and didn't want him on my team. So I told them he needed to transfer. Thing is, he is a great kid that I love greatly but just isn't performing up to par; but they dont' want to believe that." 

My son has a friend who is a solid lefty pitcher. He's a well below average fielder & hitter. Dad was upset he only got playing time on the mound, didn't think it was fair for HS players to be pigeonholed. Dad pulled him out of school & moved to nearby community a year ago and changed schools. Now he's at a much smaller school in the same situation. He pitches and gets less & less playing time in the field. As far as JV vs Varsity goes; would you rather your kid sit on the varsity bench or play in the JV games? Coach may see potential in your son & trying to put him in a situation he can play rather than sit.

First of all, I wouldn't worry about what other kids are doing.  Worry about what your son is doing.  Especially if your son wants to play college ball, he will have to be WAY better than anyone else on your HS team.  He needs to strive to be better than anyone he plays with now because, quite frankly, the kids on his team do not sound very good.

 

If your son only ranks 12-13 of the Varsity players, that is not even getting him in the lineup.  If the coaches put your son on Varsity, he'd be sitting the bench.  Would you rather watch your son play baseball on the JV level or sit the bench all season on the Varsity team?  Come on Irondad.  Sounds like your son is on the right team at this point.  It is said here all the time, play on the best team where your son will be able to play.  That's where he is right now.  He won't get any better sitting on the bench during the Varsity games.

 

Once again, he needs to work HARD to better his skills.  He needs to be at least in the top 5 on Varsity if he expects to get the call up and get any significant play time.  If he wants to play college ball, he needs to be better than anyone else on this Varsity team - BY FAR!!  

 

Your son has some work to do.  Quit blaming the coaches and get your son better.

Just for some perspective -

 

According to the stats kept by the team( not going to vouch for the accuracy on these though) - my son batted .538 this past fall JV season with an OBP of .684 and an OPS of 1.300 . He led the team in almost every offensive category. This is in S. Florida against large classification schools.

 

This spring I can count the number of at bats he has had on zero fingers.  New HC for the spring doesn't have pitchers hit.

 

My son made his plea for some at bats, and got shot down.  He could complain, but it's not going to change the situation.  So, he focused on pitching - and will get back to swinging a bat in the summer.

 

Sometimes you just have to roll with it.  I could complain up and down about the way things went this season - but all that does is cause aggravation.

 

I've said it before and I will say it here - all you can do in this type of situation is prove the coach right, or prove him wrong.  Which one is up to your son.

 

The goal is to be so good that they can't ignore it.  They can't and won't deny you your spot if you are heads above the competition.  If you aren't that much better - well, that's the funnel effect striking again.

 

 

 

 

Yep.  Irondad - You or rather your son can only control what he can control (his skills) so work on his skills whether it be pitching, hitting, fielding, etc to get better.  You want his skills to be so good the coach has no choice to play him on varsity.  Don't fall into the trap of comparing your son to the other players - it doesn't work that way.  And by the way, at the HS level stats really don't mean much since the season is so short.  They barely mean anything at the college level.

OA5II is correct.  At the college level it's worse - every single player was a stud in HS and a player has to prove himself everyday.  Have a bad day and odds are you are headed for the bench.

 

Consider your son fortunate.  Locally, if a Junior doesn't make Varsity, he does NOT have the option of dropping down to JV.  It's either make Varsity or you are not playing at all.

Irondad, if your putting him at the 12-13 best player on the team, I am going to argue that he is better off on JV and not V.  If he was on V he would be sitting on the bench as opposed to playing.  On JV he is going to get the playing time he needs to improve himself.  

Problem is it is hard to figure out whether someone is a bad coach based on what one disappointed parent has to say.  What do the varsity players think of this coach?  Usually most everyone recognizes a truly bad coach.  For sure all coaches are not equal!

 

Favoritism, is the poorest of all excuses.  After all, it exists in everything we do.  Those that succeed tend to become a favorite.  Those that show potential tend to become a favorite.  There are many ways to become one of the favorites.  You almost have to go out of your way to become a non-favorite.

 

Everyone has their favorites, that includes coaches who have many favorites.  However, when it comes to parents we all know who our favorites are.  Sometimes that parental favoritism gets in the way of clear thinking.

 

Bottom line... Life is difficult even for the favorites.  and it is much more difficult for the non-favorites.  Coaches are guilty of favoritism, every coach in every sport.  Do not confuse favoritism with unfairness.  Solution... Go about doing whatever you can to become one of the favorites.  BTW, some of my favorites weren't starters.  My starters were my favorites when it came to brains and talent. No matter, no doubt about it, I was guilty of playing favorites!  Even if I didn't actually like them that much.

 

Get off the playing favorites excuses and spend more time becoming one of those favorites.  That is one thing out of the way, the rest of the issue is impossible to assess without actually being around it.

Right now my son is leading the team in BA and OBP.  .668 BA and .780 OBP.  He plays 1b and pitches.  Coach is platooning him with a kid who is hitting .357 and has a .400 OBP at 1b.  You would think that when he is not pitching the coach would want his bat in the line up.  But thats not what's happening.  My kid and I are happy as clams.  You will never hear any complaining about his reduced playing time in the field.   Basically this is how his playing time goes, Game 1 - 1st Base, Game 2 - DH, Game 3 - Pitch or Rest, Game 4 - Opposite of Game 3.  He does not bat when pitching.  In general he has reduced playing time compared to the non-twoway fielders.  I asked him about it this weekend.  His response was basically, hey Im playing.