KOUFAX

Sandy Koufax could have pitched at that level for much longer. The cortisone is what did him in, but not the shots. He was in essence a guinea pig for **** applications of cortisone, which I have been told is no longer done because of the health consequences. He left very bitter at the doctors and very bitter at the Dodgers and rightly decided that his long term health was far more important.

Steve Carlton and Whitey Ford werent so bad either.

And Ron Guidry - for one season - was the best I ever saw.

But then again - I am much younger than you TR

I have the wonderful tapes that HBO put out a few years ago called "When it was a game", 1,2 and 3.They had about 45 min dedicated to the pitchers of the 60's....Marichal, Drysdale, Maloney, Chance, Gibson and Koufax. They had comments from many of the star hitters of that time like F. Robinson and Aaron, and they agreed about a few things. 1. That there were some great pitchers in the 60's, and that Koufax was the best.

I have a great Willie Mays story about Koufax, but I can't tell it here as too many of the words would be ********* x'd out.

When my dad handed down all his baseball cards to me - there was only ONE that he said I should never lose.

Sandy Koufax - that is all I ever heard about.

He Koufaxed me to death. LOL

bbscout

Saw the same show--a must for any baseball fan

Tom - I have a very personal Koufax story - I know you will appreciate it!
When Brian was in a coma back in 2000, his friend (who was Koufax's nephew's son) brought an autographed baseball to the hospital from Sandy to Brian and put it in a holder where Brian could focus on it - when he woke up we told him about the baseball and he kept staring at it while he was strugling to regain his consciousness.
That baseball was the point where he would start his day of focusing, and end it, making sure we put the ball in a safe place. I'm not a therapist (only a Mom!) but that baseball was part of what got Brian back to us and on the road to healing. Brian got to thank him in person later that year, and he was gracious and humble. I wrote to him later explaining how important it was to Brian and how much his thoughtfulness blessed our family.
According to his nephew, he rarely signs anything, so this baseball (still in a safe place!) is a treasure to us. Sandy has a special place in our hearts.

Ditto on the show. Great DVD's that I've watched all the way through several times each.

I ran into an old friend at a funeral recently that I hadn't seen in 20 years; we played Little League ball together in the mid-60's. He told me he purchased a Juan Marichal rookie card for me years ago at a card show as he remembered my fondness for him, and had kept it for me all these years till our paths crossed again. I was amazed he remembered and touched by his kindness. In LL, he had always called me "Mari-neal" as I tried to emulate Juan with the high leg kick (Dontrell who?).

Juan Marichal was incredible and would be even more highly regarded if that dad-burned Gibson hadn't decided to have a microscopic ERA in 1968, if McClain hadn't won 30, and maybe if he hadn't hit Roseboro with the bat. He won 27 games if I recall correctly and didn't get the Cy Young award, which went to Gibson (also a whale of a pitcher to be sure).

The recent biography published on Koufax is a great read.

Back in January, over at www.pitching-mechanics.org, I'd posted a brief video clip (1 minute and 13 seconds long w/sound) from one of the "When It Was A Game" movies. If you love baseball I highly recommend those videos.

Here is a link to that thread: The way it "used" to be!

Here is a link to that clip: Old School Pitchers

Enjoy!

Jason

P.S. You need Windows Media Player to view the clip.

I do not think you will ever see the pitching like in the 60's. Even with all the gurus and those who wow us with their scientific expertise you just are not going to see so many good pitchers at one time. their mindset was give me the ball leave me alone. I was present at old connie mack Stadium as a teenager in the mid 60's and saw Koufax no hit the Phillies. to this day i have never seen such a curveball.

Will

I dont anyone else has either unless want to talk Sal Maglie who IMHO was close when it came to the curveball

Trhit

"The Barber"

WILL

If he pitched today he would be heaved every game in the first inning

a Little Koufax trivia.

How many K's did he have in his high school career?

phillyfan- me thinks this is a trick question and I'm guessing he may not have had any Ks in high school at all.

Koufax was, I believe, primarily a first baseman in high school and his "first" sport was basketball. I believe he attended the Univ. of Cincinnati on a basketball scholarship.

As far as his big league career, given my dinasaurish age, I've had the chance to see just about anyone worth see pitching since 1959. From Gibson to Seaver to Marichal, Spahn, Drysdale, Clemens, Ford etc. etc. there's been some amazin' arms out there, but Koufax

In his unfortunately few prime years, there was just no one better than Dandy Sandy. A few years ago they asked then owner of the Dodgers, Peter O'Malley what kind of salary Koufax would command today. O'Malley just answered- "Guess I would have had a partner".

I also have had the privilege of meeting Mr. Koufax a couple of times and he is just an amazingly kind and classy gentleman.

Growing up in Los Angeles, if you could get to the stadium on a day Sandy was pitching -WOW.

Had na interesting conversation this past weekendwith a former Major League Pitcher about this very subject. He objected to my comment that Gibson and Koufax would be dominating today. His points were then the mound was higher, stike zone larger, ball softer, playing fields larger, no blacks or hispanics, and generally the game was geared for pitching. Now the mounds are not as tall, fields are fan friendly(smaller), the ball is like a golf ball, and with the nutrion and training the players are bigger, faster and stronger.

Now he didn't claim that they wouldn't do well, just that the best players are playing today, and better ones will be playing tommorrow and comparing athelets of different eras is not fair to either. Example he used was Garvey. Stats don't compare to 1st Baseman of the past,, but for 1- to 12 years he was the best in the game. He was persuasive, but I still would pit Gibson or Koufax against any of todays hitters

kj-who were you talking to-First of all, no blacks or hispanics
Koufax and Gibson pitched against the likes of Mays, McCovey, Aaron, Clemente, Banks, Robinson, Cepeda. BTW, you might want to remind your friend that Gibson is African-American.

Gibson and Koufax could probably both go out to the mound today, at their age and be respectable. I've heard that Koufax will still throw some bp in spring training and hit the mid80s.

The size of ballparks has not changed much, there's always a mix of "hitter" and "pitcher" parks. Plus Gibson and Koufax pitched when there were only 8 and then 10 teams in the league. There is the argument that players may be bigger and stronger (at least for the last few steroidal years ) but that expansion has watered down the talent.

While Clemens immediately comes to mind, can't think of too many current pitchers that could hold a candle to Gibson or Koufax.

I tend to agree with you, and he was talking about before the 50's of course.

Like everything else nowadays, some baseball guru tried to breakdown why Koufax was so great on another site. It was interesting, but left out God's gift of talent. Anyway, he talked about the extremely long fingers which palmed basketballs (curveball). His double-jointed elbows (fastball). Also, his very long arms (all pitches). Take it for what it is worth.

A little know fact Koufax went out for the baseball team because they had a spring trip to Florida and he thought it would be cool to go there on spring break.