Kudos to teacherman and son

Can you post the clip???

Thanks Tom. From one outcast to another.

Callaway

I don't know if Tom is talking hitting or pitching. I posted info on both subjects.

Pitching

Hitting

And here's a double to left center in tonights game. Against the wind and to the wall. I guess it's a good thing when you go 1 for 3 and your average drops???

Brandon

Not claiming perfection. Have to read the links to get the point.

But, I will say this.....The quest for batspeed is a MAJOR CAUSE OF young kids not being able to hit. Many think it will help them. No way. Not until they are quick. Mr. N y m a n is right on when he talks about swing quickness.

(Isn't starring out his name a little childish?)

Teacherman, nice to see your son having success. Noticed the Green. Can't see the name of the school. Is this high school? I'm thinking select and think your son isn't in HS as of yet. If in HS, Green? Only a couple of schools in your neck of the woods come to mind. One with letters LN. Private school. Close? I like the hands. Looks like FB up and in. Looks like he tries to keep his hands above the ball (slight) and no waisted motion on upper body. When plant foot hits, very efficient given the pitch. The "hop" at the end of the swing is the result, in my opinion, on reaction to the pitch and not some "flaw" or jump at the ball. Again, congratulations to your son on the success.

Nice looking swing. It looks like his upper half is very quiet (borderline stationary). Have you looked at this? Also, do you think a little bit more movement in the shoulders/arms part of the load could help him with the high pitches?

(FYI, his name has been starred out because he threatened legal action on Bob because of a post.)

edit: I re-worded the comments on the swing. They were not meant to be inflammatory or degrading..just questions

B25

You couldn't be more wrong, in the level of ball he plays, where he plays and your swing evaluation.

Congratulations to your son on his double.

Featureman:

I second CoachB25’s comments. It’s nice to see your younger son having success. My question is, do we need to talk down every other player, coach and hitting instructor in the country as well?

In the clip, I missed his stance but could tell that he prefers to get his hands back during that time. His grip and stride look very good to me and his hip turn definitely brings the knob and firms the front leg. His head finishes over his back knee and with most of his weight on his back foot (good reasons for the “hop” after contact). Mechanically he appears to be very solid. When he begins to cool off a bit, check his weight transfer forward during his stride. Right now it’s fine.

I hope he can run the bases and field his position as proficiently as he swings the bat.

Good luck to you and him.

THop

I love viewing the clips. We film all of our kids and have worked a segment of practice where we funnel some of our kids over to see their BP right after they finish it. My Assistant Coach does great at this. Teacherman, your son is fortunate that you take the time to do thia and analyze it. As with any tool, it is both a help and a hinderance. I know with my child, I have to avoid getting "carried away" with analyzing her game. She needs time to just play the game. As per the critique, we were hitting last night and my former mentor who won over 650 games as a high school coach stopped by. He saw stuff that he would change in one of my hitters. His statement was, "he won't be able to hit for much power that way." Well, that kid currently has 5 bombs and 20+ RBIs as of now. He hit 8 of my next 10 pitches out of our yard. Different people see different things. Above everything, I in the kid business and I'm happy for Teacherman's son and his success despite my obvious lack of knowledge regarding anything about his son.

quote:

...his hip turn definitely brings the knob and firms the front leg.

...His head finishes over his back knee and with most of his weight on his back foot

...When he begins to cool off a bit, check his weight transfer forward during his stride.

First and foremost, we are not claiming perfection. We are claiming a major transformation from a kid who couln't hit .200 as a freshman and sophomore.

The reason I decided to post the clips, including the 8 at bats of the doubleheader, was to encourage others who may be in the same boat AND to point out something that almost every hitting coach does wrong. And that is their emphasis on batspeed instead of swing quickness. More specifically, how batspeed, or the 'need' for it, reduces quickness and inhibits hitting.

I don't use your words about the 'hips bringing the knob' but my interpretation of that is in line with what I teach. I teach wait, wait, wait, TURN (like hell). (Credit given to N y m a n). The turn is pure rotation altough we need to get much better at it. We do absolutely nothing with the hands other than to make adjustments to pitch location.

A kid will never learn to hit until he can wait until the last possible second and then turn quickly enough to hit the ball solid and fair. This can not be done with the hands and arms. Therefore, I love the fact that 70% of his hits are to the opposite field. Line drives to left. Why? Because he is waiting so long, it looks to me (live) like he's too late every time, yet his quickness hits a line drive. Compare that to the kid who starts too early every time. That kid will never learn to hit. Explosive quick rotation will not be learned by starting too early.

Does he really FINISH over his back leg? When is finish? I see him with momentum up against the front leg very similar to what I see from Pujols. Definately could do it better. Foot never leaves the ground like Pujols. But the momentum of his rotation is forcing a shift of weight forward.

redbird

We tried to reduce the swing to a base swing. Something very simple, short, compact. Repeatable. I see things in the swing that can be improved. Things that will increase quickness and speed. We will work on those things. But, the underlying rotation is what makes this swing work. That's what has taken a kid who couldn't hit the ball at all to one who is a very effective offensive player at his level. Again, he's not a prospect. We are a father/son team with a hobby and a goal and are having a great time learning.

quote:

...despite my obvious lack of knowledge regarding anything about his son.

B25

Your (and other posters) preoccupation with who I am and where my son goes to school triggered my flippant remark. He is in high school. He's a senior. His team does wear greeen. I know of no LN private school that wears green. The only initials LN listed on prepsports is Lutheran North. They wear Southern Cal colors.

What I intended by my comment about your hitting critique was to simply show that even an experienced coach such as yourself can have a very difficult time determining what cue is triggering a given swing by watching video. You may see things you like or dislike but determining what is causing what is very illusive. Especially when looking at a .gif, which always runs slower than an .avi for example.

This swing is triggered by rotation only. We do nothing with the hands except find a spot for them. Notice how the hands don't move until they are yanked by the rotation. Any additional hand movment reduces his quickness. It also costs him batspeed at this time. But, when the swing becomes more and more his, the strength to generate batspeed within this swing will develop. Trying to add batspeed at this time will cause him to fail.

Here is a ground out to the first baseman.

Yet, one of my favorite swings up to the frame before contact. Just happens he was too early. Had to disconnect to slow down. Grounded out. But, as a typical lefty, he can drive this pitch.

Brandon

What do you learn from this swing? Several coaches would say his front leg never stiffened? Really? It almost did. Why didn't it?.......because he had to slow down. He was too early.

This was a great swing. It didn't match the timing of the pitch so adjustments were attempted. And failed. But, if timing was good......

Although both very important, there is a difference between swinging and hitting. And, because he can now swing it a little, he gets to learn how to hit it.

quote:

Originally posted by Teacherman:
...We tried to reduce the swing to a base swing. Something very simple, short, compact. Repeatable. I see things in the swing that can be improved. Things that will increase quickness and speed. We will work on those things. But, the underlying rotation is what makes this swing work. That's what has taken a kid who couldn't hit the ball at all to one who is a very effective offensive player at his level. Again, he's not a prospect. We are a father/son team with a hobby and a goal and are having a great time learning.

I agree in a simple swing. I look for the same thing and try to teach keeping a swing simple. When a simple machine breaks down, it is much easier to fix.

One thing that has worked well for my son is sinwgbuster's advice of "working your bottom hand under the top hand". The allows a little bit of movement in the shoulders/hands to promote better timing. I believe this should be a slow, measured movement that will become natural and helps launch the swing.

After seeing your son's swing clips, this may be something top tinker with.

Teacherman

Thanks for the clips. I like the compactness of his swing. You can really see the emphasis on starting the swing with the rotation of his hips. Very little linear movement. Turn like H$LL is a cue that I firmly believe in and use as well.

He appears to have a little more rotation in the second clip. In the first clip his back foot seems to be pointing toward the catcher slightly. Is that just the camera angle?

I would have him continue to work on rotation and even turn a bit more to help drive his backside through. That will give him the Pujols weight transfer and generate even more power. JMO.

Sorry, I couldn't read the links. I have been banished...

B25

If we can keep it clean, I'd like to talk hands. Maybe there is more than one way to hit. Maybe the success I've had with nonprospects is different than what it may be with a prospect. But, I don't think so.

But it is my opinion that teaching hands reduces quickness. The best thing a coach can give a hitter is quickness. A BA can jump 100 points simply because of a longer look to make better decisions. Hand movement slows the entire process.

redbird

The cue that helped us the most (at least the one that kind of put all the other stuff together) came from swingbuster. And I'm not opposed to trying to create addtional batspeed down the road. I do not feel now is the time. The basic swing needs to become him before I'll add bells and whistles.

Callaway

Not only is his rotation incomplete it is inhibited by his rear foot allignment. Something we talk about and yet he forgets almost every time he gets in the box.

I sent you a PM also.

To all

What I am obviously a big fan of is a base swing that emphasizes quickness. If you can develop that, many many flaws can still exist and you can be an effective player at the high school level. You shouldn't overlook the flaws. You should continue to work them out and improve. But, an underlying quick swing is the beginning of baseball hitting happiness. Without it you won't get the opportunity to work on the flaws because you won't have enough success to stay in the lineup. A swing which generates high batspeed without quickness is the beginning of s o c c e r.

Teach,

Congrats on helping your son already have an outstanding swing and for being the first to say he can still improve. Your son certainly does a nice job of getting his bat on plane early and keeps it in the hitting zone while matching the trajectory for a long time. As you mentioned, he is working on keeping his rear leg from inhibiting his rotation and when he gets that piece of the puzzle where you want him, it’s going to really be a thing of beauty.

Best of luck to you both.


PS I just noticed my odometer turned over to an HSBBWeb Old Timer. I thought it felt like I was typing a little slower today.

Teacherman,

Nice job with your son. I especially like the second swing. If he could get his back foot turned a bit more it would be even prettier.

I really liked the following quote

quote:

That's what has taken a kid who couldn't hit the ball at all to one who is a very effective offensive player at his level. Again, he's not a prospect. We are a father/son team with a hobby and a goal and are having a great time learning.

Guess I don't know if he's a prospect or not, but sure do like what you and him are doing together.

I wish him the best

Thanks PG. Just got back from another game. Another 2 for 4. 2 nice singles. 3 rbi's.

Shortstop robbed him of a 3rd hit.

Teacherman, I believe we are on the same page when it comes to hands. Other than the cue "Keep your hands inside the ball," we avoid talking about the hands. However, when we look for flaws in the swing, we look at hands first. It is simply a matter of picking that area to look at first when breaking down a swing when one of my kids is struggling. However, and you probably already understand this, often I have to move to other areas of the swing checking off as I go for what I've posted earlier in different posts about what we percieve as the "Qualities of a Great Hitter." It is essentially our checkoff list. One other thing when it comes to coaching, the swing can be perfect and yet, success can be lacking. Then you have to discuss pitch selection, patience (what we call "letting the pitch get to you.") as well as the mental approach prior to the at bat or what we call "having a plan."

Congratulations to your son on another good outing. We play tonight and then a bunch of nights in a row. Sounds like his team is getting a bunch of games in. That's always nice given the weather around here.

teacherman-

Can you post any "before" clips here for comparison ?

On the ground out this is what I saw. I see this many times and it has to do with connection. Rotation moves bat barrel when there is solid connection. Many players load to connect and many preload already connected. Most high school player get caught doing neither before many swings.

I define connection ( as you know) as the lead elbow equal to or behind the belly button. I have watched 1000s of swings with and without this point of reference where I think it should be. The odds of hitting the ball hard go up exponentially when the elbow is behind the belly button at toe touch. I remind my son at every game.

Just my humble opinion to go with a good swing

I see it buster. Thanks. The load in the lower half isn't as good either.

Tom

Here you go.

http://www.hitting-mechanics.org/vbforum/showthread.php?p=11124&posted=1#post11124