Lance Armstrong

My take is this. I am not saying that he is innocent, I don't know. What I am saying is this....If we in our country believe that you are innocent until proven guilty then how is it that you can strip a man of his titles and state that he is banned for life when he has never failed one drug test?

I believe they are using as evidence from some of his former team mates and others in the cycling world who say they have heard him say or have seen him doping.

Not sure that is right either that breakes it down to a he said vs. he said.

My first reaction: What a shame! A major achievement tarnished. How could he?

My second reaction: What a great strategy on his part. He knows he accomplished it. No one really has proven he doped up. And why should he expend more resources when the next step is a kangaroo court?

I'm still a fan.

Roughly equivalent to Barry Bonds except Bonds probably posted better numbers pre-steroids.

I've always wondered given the type of cancer that Armstrong suffered from how he could've avoided having some sort of supplementation as a necessary part of his treatment.

Not only do they seek to strip him of Titles and Championships, but they want to strip him of all the income he generated over his career.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Roughly equivalent to Barry Bonds except Bonds probably posted better numbers pre-steroids.

I've always wondered given the type of cancer that Armstrong suffered from how he could've avoided having some sort of supplementation as a necessary part of his treatment.

Nothing proven. Can't assume the negative.

Kind of like going to a murder trial and all the prosecution witnesses are being led to the stand in shackles and orange jump suits.

While part of me thinks he had to dope to dominate like that he never failed a test and I don't think your case should be built on the testimony of guys who did fail a bunch of tests.

RSF21,
I can assume anything I want to since I don't have any impact on their futures. Not a court of law, don't have a HOF vote and don't buy anything based on their endorsements.

It's obvious he's guilty since he gave up the fight. Am innocent man will fight to the end to clear his name. He knows if he fought to the end he would get exposed for the fraud he is so why not just bail out and get it over with


I got no issue with them stripping him of his titles and income. He earned that loot under false pretenses.

When are these athletes ever gonna learn they're not above the law and are no better than anyone else.

zomby,
Given the world of cycling he was probably guilty IMO, but there are many, many documented cases of people copping to lesser penalties who were totally innocent simply because the alternative was too nasty to face.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
zomby,
Given the world of cycling he was probably guilty IMO, but there are many, many documented cases of people copping to lesser penalties who were totally innocent simply because the alternative was too nasty to face.

I tend to think those copping pleas who are innocent are those who somehow have all this circumstancial evidence mounted against them, are facing jail time if it goes thru a trial, are told they'll never win the case and/or can't afford to hire a slick shister lawyer to confuse and convince a jury in their favor. And last but most importantly, can't afford that shrewd lawyer to guarentee or at lesst show overwhelming proof of their innocence.

In Armstrong's case, i don't see what he has to lose since his reputation is down the toilet, is getting stripped of all his wins and are coming after his income.

My question is why were so many of his peers willing to testify against him which meant exposing themselves as dopers. Was he an ******* while winning all these races?

Often, where there is smoke, there will be fire! Lance, the USPS team, his assistants or team assistants have been surrounded by smoke "of doping" tracing back to 1999.

I love what he's done for cancer patients and he's been rewarded thru his wins and sponsors to the tune of a personal fortune estimated at about $100 mil... As long as cheating pays, elite athletes will continue to try to beat the system.

But yea, I think he's dirty...

Who does the money go to? Whose the winner of all those races? What good is the test if he passed it every time?

Seems like if all the contestants are doping, then a doper is going to win the race.

Even in baseball, everyone jumps on the super stars when it comes to PEDs. How come all the thousands of others that were using PEDs never became super stars? After all, they cheated just as much. Geez, those guys must have really stunk before using PEDs.

I know some people will disagree with me but does anybody really care about the Tour de France? If Armstrong had never existed most Americans would equate the Tour with a Kazakistanian land rally or something. It sounds like this race is rife with drugs and Lance was probably the best of the druggers. I'm surprised someone who had had cancer which is often accompanied by the multiplication of the cells going crazy, would be brave enough to use something that causes cellular and organ changes like anabolic steroids.

One of those who was going to testify was Floyd Landis who did test positive. Wonder what kind of deal he cut?

I remember a news story from years ago that explained part of Armstrong's extraordinary success was due to physiological traits. I found the following on-line:

"Researcher Edward Coyle studied Armstrong from 1992 to 1999 and shared his findings in the Journal of Applied Physiology in 2005. Armstrong, he wrote, has exceptional cardiovascular and lung capacity and exceptional muscular efficiency – a combination of lucky genetics and intensive training and motivation."

I understand Armstrong not wanting to fight this any longer. This has been dogging him for years even though he has never had a positive test and now it continues even though he has retired. Fighting allegations takes a lot of time and money. Yes, he has a lot of both but this probably isn't the way he wants to spend it.

I absolutely do not believe he doped. With all of the chemo and radiation as well as other drug treatment he received to conquer cancer throughout hie entire body, he would be another cancer waiting to happen. He is a tremendous athlete and his treatment actually enhanced his athleticism. The fight and determination to live translated to his fight to master the Tour.

I good friend of mine had extremely aggressive breast cancer. Her prognosis was not good at all.
after 4 rounds of chmo and radiation, losing all of her hair, and the struggle most of us are familiar with, she has been cancer free for almost 10 years. Her hair, which was graying, came back pitch black. She is early 50's with NO gray in her hair. She just lost her gray hair after chemo and it has stayed brunette, thick, and shiny. You can't explain it, just as you can't explain Armstrong's physical gifts. He has proven to be quite a good triathlete. Jealous people wanting to bring him down. Research his antagonizers. Some have serious character issues.

I realize I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think I am.

PG,
Nah, Melky was pretty much average and Bartolo was hanging on before using. I wouldn't say they stunk.

The ones who weren't good enough to make it to mlb and used PEDs to get their cup of coffee don't get noticed however they got to that point and don't have much of an effect on wins and losses. On the other hand,however their teams do from here on out, it is safe to say that Melky and Bartolo helped put their teams in a good position before they got caught.

JMO, but I think that good players can become much better by using PEDs as has pretty much been proven by Melky and Bartolo but that if you can't make contact or throw a strike in the first place then they aren't going to help much.

As far as earnings go I doubt the USADA will get any of the earnings from Armstrong. That would go to a whole different court of law.

I'll keep my comments brief since the last time I jumped in to a discussion about law etc. I had words with an old friend. Lance's case has proven that in today's society, he is guilty until proven innocent. He was administered tests and passed them. The only evidence against him is another's word. That word has not been proven. Yet, he will be stripped of his medals and titles. That is not right in my opinion. Is he innocent? I don't know. I know he has not been proven guilty.