Large Recruiting Classes

CPLZ,
These are not considered, IMO large numbers except for Arizona.

For most schools, these numbers would project what it would take to replace players depending on the schools situation (seniors, those projected for the draft).

Numbers are way down even from a few years ago, I do beleive one school a few years back had 22-23. But that particular school had a habit of cutting in fall or sending you to a junior college to develop or lots of redshirts.

The above also reflects an adjustment period under the new rules for most programs.

TPM,
Large is a relative term. I am comparing these numbers to other schools 2008 freshmen recruiting classes. With roster caps now in place, I doubt comparative numbers from years past, even last year, bear little significance in todays recruiting landscape.

With it being a comparative analyzer, the "large" designator, would seem accurate and appropriate. My intention is only educational, not editorial.

there is another key factor to look at when just listing #'s above. How many seniors on the team they'll lose to graduation or draft, how many juniors on the team they'll lose to the draft, how many draft eligible players on the team other than juniors they may lose and how many of those incoming freshman just recruited will they lose to the draft. In some cases the '08 recruiting classes could appear to be large relatively speaking to many others but then when you factor in all of the above.....it may not be that big after all.

...and also factor in how many JUCO's will come in along with spring freshman commitments...

Wake has 10 incoming recruits, but their roster is already under the cap and they are projecting the loss of 10 players (seniors and juniors expected to go pro). So I don't think their class is overly large under the circumstances.

Az. State has a reputation for over recruiting and then cutting kids' money in their later years. Many ASU players affected by this have transferred in the past. I fear for those kids under the new transfer rule.

CPLZ,

Are those numbers freshmen only, or the entire recruiting class?

I haven't' checked recently, but my experience was that, at those larger schools, the entire recruiting class was about 15-20 including junior transfers.

I would be interested to know your opinion on that same list of schools how many freshmen should be recruited and what the size of the entire recruiting class should be.

roster history is valuable homework on program philosophy -
however rule changes will force SOME philosophy changes so history in some progams could be misleading


G-Tech recent recruiting classes ... fall workouts are NOT expanded roster tryouts

2002 class 10 freshmen; 8 arrived + 2 signed pro - 2002 fall/spring roster 34

2003 class 10 freshmen; 8 arrived + 2 signed pro - 2003 fall/spring roster 33

2004 class 11 freshmen; 9 arrived + 2 signed pro - 2004 fall/spring roster 32

2005 class 11 freshmen + 1 JC; 10 arrived (inc JC) + 1 signed pro - 2005 fall/spring roster 31

2006 class 7 freshmen; 6 arrived + 1 signed pro - 2006 fall/spring roster 34

2007 class 13 freshmen; 11 arrived 2 signed pro - 2007 fall/spring roster 33

quote:

also factor in how many JUCO's will come in along with spring freshman commitments...

juco signees are included in recruiting class #s if they were recruited ...

The ten not sure where that number came from because Texas State early signing is made up of 5 Juco and 6 High School so the number should be 11

quote:

The ten not sure where that number came from because Texas State early signing is made up of 5 Juco and 6 High School so the number should be 11

signing period just ended, the real lists are just now being released by the schools

quote:

Wake has 10 incoming recruits, but their roster is already under the cap and they are projecting the loss of 10 players (seniors and juniors expected to go pro). So I don't think their class is overly large under the circumstances

correct, Wake's Rem/Palmeiri combo have always been smaller roster guys

Thanks I retrieved the 11 from the Texas State website.

quote:

by FO: I would be interested to know your opinion on that same list of schools how many freshmen should be recruited and what the size of the entire recruiting class should be.

for most schools incoming freshmen IS their recruiting class ...

most did not raid summer leagues for transfers

many do not recruit JCs unless they have an occasional hole to plug OR an attractive JC player expresses interest in them and fits academicly

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

Wake has 10 incoming recruits, but their roster is already under the cap and they are projecting the loss of 10 players (seniors and juniors expected to go pro). So I don't think their class is overly large under the circumstances

correct, Wake's Rem/Palmeiri combo have always been smaller roster guys

Rem, Danny Hall, and Strick from Kent State all pretty much have the same philosophy regarding recruiting. Hall and Rem were the HC for the Flashes, Rem worked with Hall, Strick worked with Hall at GT and played for Danny at Kent State.

Rem and I played little league and HS baseball together. Its a small world out there in college baseball land.

quote:

by OS8: Rem, Danny Hall, and Strick from Kent State all pretty much have the same philosophy regarding recruiting.

you are very correct,

their method being to work their azz off identifying and recruiting players that fit their program .. get them to campus and then develop them
fall practice time is to to teach & develop, and get a feel for spring line-up ..
not to run tryouts for spring roster

some players can contribute sooner, some are faced with a mean depth chart, & some require patience

ex Kent St:

VanBenchoten 1B: a 2001 1rst round Pirate's pick - late bloomer & a guy who could absolutly MASH, tho drafted as a pitcher(?)

Sonnenstine rhp: med RS yr, late bloomer - Tampa Bay D'Rays

Wagler rhp: didn't get alot of innings early because too many arms ahead of him - Astro's MiLB

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:
TPM,
Large is a relative term. I am comparing these numbers to other schools 2008 freshmen recruiting classes. With roster caps now in place, I doubt comparative numbers from years past, even last year, bear little significance in todays recruiting landscape.

With it being a comparative analyzer, the "large" designator, would seem accurate and appropriate. My intention is only educational, not editorial.

CPLZ,
Maybe I misunderstood your post?

What do you deem large? 12,15,16,22? Most schools that my son was interested never really had large recruiting classes and if they did, it was to replace, not add and drop.
IMO, it's hard to judge, based on progam future needs. What's easy to judge, is to take those that have had significantly large recruiting classes before and compare then to now.

If you identify a program that slways had large classes and will continue, then nothing has changed, they will stock up in the fall and cut and drop end of fall. Personally, unless one gets a solid commitment from those schools, I'd stay away.

As Bee has suggested, many schools have always and will continue to recruit players and work to develop them. JUCO plyaers will fill in the gaps created by the draft or injuries.

quote:

for most schools incoming freshmen IS their recruiting class ...

most did not raid summer leagues for transfers

many do not recruit JCs unless they have an occasional hole to plug OR an attractive JC player expresses interest in them and fits academicly

My son's college has not published a list. However, I've been able to form my own list from several sources that may or may not be complete. There are six '08 players signed plus one possible JUCO player and one '08 who is currently being recruited. This year's roster size is 31 and I would imagine next year's will look much the same. I'm thankful for those coaches who do like Bee says: work hard to identify and recruit players that fit their program, get them to campus and then develop them.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
What do you deem large? 12,15,16,22?

It is not that "I" deemed them large, their recruiting classes are large simply by the size relative to a majority of other schools. If their recruiting class was 4 players, while most others were 1-3 players, 4 would be large. I did arbitrarily cut my list off at 10 or over.

There could be a great number of reasons for a large class, both honorable and less than that. As a parent, having some history to the size of the incoming classes, is good information to use. It is then up to the parent & student to question those reasons and determine for themselves if the coach and program are worth consideration. Again, the intention, at least from me, is strictly informational.

I am still confused.
I am not sure of what you are asking?

The schools you posted, for many of them, that has always been about the size of their recruiting class, I do not feel 10-12 is large for the schools you listed.

What becomes large when for most it has always been relatively the same?

TPM,
The size of former recruiting classes have nothing to do with it. The term "large" is not relative to what a school has done in the past. The term "large" is relative to the rest of the recruiting world, regardless of its history.

I must be doing a terrible job of explaining this, it seems so simple to me.

With a roster of 35, and given that in the best of all worlds you will have some guys give up the sport, others not make the grade academically, and some go pro after three years, I would think a team would typically need 8-12 recruits in every freshman class just to hold to the 35. I mean, if you recruit 8-12 guys every year, you'll recruit 32-48 every 4 years, and with some attrition you'll end up with your 35.

Show me a class with 5-7 guys coming in and I'll show you a class that'll have to wait its turn behind some heavily laden upper classes.

CP,
No problem I have already been called on the carpet today for not explaining myself well enough today.

With the numbers you gave, I thought you meant them to be large, I just see that as "normal".

One of the schools on the list had 22 recruits (if I remember correctly) a few years back, now that number is cut in less than half. So I guess for them that would be considered 'small".

Midlo,
8-12 incoming players seems as though it would meet the average needs of a sustaining a 35 man roster. However, most schools also add JUCO players and spring signings to their fall signing period numbers. A school with 8-12 in the fall signing period could easily have 12-16 committed by summer and possibly more. The fall signing class is hardly ever the complete list of commitments.

Attrition varies for a number of good and poor reasons. My sons freshman class at West Point was initially 19 recruits. Already it's down to 15, and by the 2009 season, history tells us that more will fall off. Different schools, different attrition rates, different reasons.

Most MLB teams draft about 50 players per year.

Depending on the number of minor league teams, they have between 150-250 players in the pipeline for the 25 man roster.

I bet that really seems like over recruiting.........

CPLZ,
Interesting info, thanks. One would have to do more research if planning to go to those schools to try and find out if those were larger than necessary recruiting classes or not.

I've heard that one of Arizona state or Arizona sends a lot of players to JCs, but I don't know if that is true.

quote:

by cplz: 8-12 incoming players seems as though it would meet the average needs of a sustaining a 35 man roster. However, most schools also add JUCO players and spring signings to their fall signing period numbers. A school with 8-12 in the fall signing period could easily have 12-16 committed by summer and possibly more. The fall signing class is hardly ever the complete list of commitments.

1) agree that 8-12 seems ok

2) consistent 4-5 would be a red flag .. not funded properly

3) of course the fall list could grow if needs exist, the signing class is the total

4) some schools have pipe lines to juco most don't recruit them

CAdad...I'm not sure how this will change moving forward for Arizona State w/ the roster changes and how they'll handle their recruiting in the future, but they have been known for bringing in way more than they need go through the fall work outs, weed out who is not ready, send them to Juco's and in some cases those players would return to ASU later,but in most cases those players simply moved on.

The size of the other classes would be a factor involved wouldn't it ?
I looked at twenty D1 school's roster sizes at the end of September. Pertaining to class here are the average amounts per class. Nine were from Virginia. The rest were ACC & SEC out of state (for me).
.
Senior 5.7
Junior 7.9
Soph 9.1
Fresh 10.1
Total 32.8
.
The rosters were on each schools website. Six were still listed as 2007. Just sharing a little research.

If a school has a roster size of 35 they should have 8.75 players per season in each class.

According to the local paper, ARkansas has 16 verbal commitments. Article says they anticipate some will get drafted.

quote:

Originally posted by cbg:
If a school has a roster size of 35 they should have 8.75 players per season in each class.

The goal is to, or should be to, balance the classes. Even the most carefully recruited and balanced classes can get "unbalanced" in spite of the best intentions of all. Out of nessecity, the classes are and will continue to be "smaller", staying more balanced, with players (hopefully) more game-ready when they get to school.

quote:

by Do4: the goal is to, or should be to, balance the classes

true to a point, but as each class progresses "on field" things will sort out and guys not seeing playing time opportunity will move on ... some jrs & srs are drafted opening up PT opportunity for underclassmen

quote:

Originally posted by cbg:
If a school has a roster size of 35 they should have 8.75 players per season in each class.

In reality they don't.....I am "guessing" the biggest culprit is the MLB draft.

I am amazed at the number of coaches that I run across that say, "we expect you to be here 3 years..."

Someone refresh my memory, does a JR in good academic standing that leaves school due to being drafted affect the school's APR????

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

by Do4: the goal is to, or should be to, balance the classes

true to a point, but as each class progresses "on field" things will sort out and guys not seeing playing time opportunity will move on ... some jrs & srs are drafted opening up PT opportunity for underclassmen

Classes this year are smaller. Fewer will be moving on. Some will, but far fewer will transfer than past years. Coaches and players will basicly be stuck with eachother, imo.

Some of these numbers are way off. Most, if not all, are understated. South Carolina will announce a class of 16 or 17. Clemson, which did not appear on your list, will announce 13.

This SEC program currently has 42 players on its roster, of which 5 will graduate and 9 juniors. If half of the juniors get drafted, then 32 players will remain, and they just signed 20 for next season, and will start Fall of 2008 with 52 players???? And 35 is the MAX !!

They added:

RHP
LHP/1B
OF
RHP
RHP
1B/3B
OF
OF
C
MIF/3B
RHP
OF
3B
OF
OF/RHP
OF/RHP
1B/LHP
RHP
RHP
MIF
RHP

Is this "uncontrolled spending" ? A bad habit?

Maybe all the facts don't present themselves in this one case, but the program has a reputation as a Fall workout factory. All I see is simple math here. (52-35=17)

It is a little concerning til you dig deeper....the current roster of 42 will not be 42 come spring time and official roster is announced. This SEC team will infact lose several to graduation and draft and the 20 incoming when all said and done will not be 20 incoming as they will also lose several of those to the draft as well. I will admit though it's the largest signing class I've seen thus far from any school in any conference.

that does seem it bit high,
if it were an ACC school a few more would fall off the list from academic ineligibility

quote:

Originally posted by j2h6:
It is a little concerning til you dig deeper....the current roster of 42 will not be 42 come spring time and official roster is announced.

WHY?

Transfers and Cuts?

It's apparent for most SEC programs due to the reasons you stated above, transfers and cuts at the end of this fall sememster could be much larger than normal. It's their last chance w/out penalty and those on the bubble will surely look else where. For years it seems most SEC programs always carried larger rosters than most other conferences but now with the changes we all know about implemented by the NCAA, roster sizes are having to be adjusted and quickly.