Late bloomer and injuries, what are the options?

@TPM posted:

My opinion, until your son is healthy, and with club coaches obviously not being helpful, I do not see any positive outcome, by the time he has to graduate. There are hundreds of  really good healthy players available, trying to get noticed. It's a difficult time for everyone. Why has he  (not you) contacted anyone who showed interest.

You can go along for the ride for as long as you wish, but it is your responsibility as an adult to oversee that your sons education is #1. Any good honest coach will tell you that. Seems like you all have made no effort in that direction.

I am sorry that this may seem harsh, but I can tell you, honestly, that it's really tough out there.

Good luck.

TPM

Dude, wth?

I was looking for insight as to what others have done or seen or what worked for them.  He has been in constant contact with coaches, old and possible future.

Going along for the ride means allowing him to contact coaches on his own, apply to the schools he would like to go to, and steer his own boat.  Not that I did nothing.  He has other non-baseball plans (ie engineering) that have time to be explored. 

@Target posted:

Dude, wth?

I was looking for insight as to what others have done or seen or what worked for them.  He has been in constant contact with coaches, old and possible future.

Going along for the ride means allowing him to contact coaches on his own, apply to the schools he would like to go to, and steer his own boat.  Not that I did nothing.  He has other non-baseball plans (ie engineering) that have time to be explored.

I am not a dude. Get that straight.

You stated all communication dropped.  Or did I miss something?

What exactly does your son want to do?   He is graduating in a few months, correct? Has he applied to colleges?

You got some good feedback. I am not sure you liked it.

@Target posted:

They sounded good to me.  However, he is with a club that promotes players in the 90s and above.  And he only hit those 90s his senior year.

I totally understand that the travel clubs promote their D1 talent aggressively but there is a world of baseball below the power 5 and competitive baseball conferences.  A great travel program will make calls on behalf of all its players and has relationships at all levels of competition.   

On TPM she is really just saying that to get a spot at this point in the 2021 grad cycle will be extremely challenging (it's basically over - but not impossible).   My son's team usually carries 35-36 players but this year there are 45.   So the class coming in this fall,  2021 HS grads,  is likely going to be smaller than usual.   This is likely true across ALL teams.  My son plays D3 and there are Sophmore MEN about to turn 21 with 4 years left heading into their Junior year!  They got their freshman year back due to Covid, D3 is giving everyone this year too so there will be seniors with 3 years left unless I did my math wrong.  There are just fewer spots.

@Target posted:

His last summer ball coaches were college coaches making the best of the COVID shut down. He was told every team needs a player like him, not only for his skills and "leave it all out on the field" approach but also because of the energy he brings to the team. They could see him playing in college.  After last summer and before surgery, he was told when he fills out some, he could make a smaller D1 team, start on a D2, or be a stud at D3.

Well, this is what you said. Covid may have shifted all those things down a notch. Remember that D2s often bring in JUCO players and dropdowns, so it's not a straight line between talent and D-level.

You're giving us third-hand info, but summer coaches saying "when he fills out some" was a polite way of saying that they were not willing to be directly helpful last summer. Has he sat down with those coaches and asked which schools they would be comfortable recommending him to right now? Has he asked them about juco, and would they recommend him to a juco coach? If the summer coaches have contacts, their recommendations can mean a lot. With overcrowding, and unlimited rosters at every level below D1, just "making" a team might not be the priority your son wants to make it.

I know that kids have to contact the college coaches themselves.  However, in our experience, the summer coaches were willing/happy/more interested in talking to parents about colleges.  So, have YOU talked to those summer coaches?  They might give you a more honest answer than they would give your son.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

A great travel program will make calls on behalf of all its players and has relationships at all levels of competition. 

This.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

there is a world of baseball below the power 5 and competitive baseball conferences

Yes! And we all should be grateful for D2/D3/JUCO/NAIA, Pony League, American Legion, and their counterparts, in every sport. It's about playing, enjoying and growing the game. Indeed, there'd be no MLB without these lower leagues, starting right at LL T-ball.

I am new to this board but I've found it has a strong bias towards P5/D1 and pro ball players. TBH, it's a bit off-putting; not everyone has P5 skills.

So kudos to those like the OP and his son who are simply seeking to play for as long as they can, out of love for the game. Not for recognition. Not for ego. And certainly not for money.

@DD 2024 posted:

Yes! And we all should be grateful for D2/D3/JUCO/NAIA, Pony League, American Legion, and their counterparts, in every sport. It's about playing, enjoying and growing the game. Indeed, there'd be no MLB without these lower leagues, starting right at LL T-ball.

I am new to this board but I've found it has a strong bias towards P5/D1 and pro ball players. TBH, it's a bit off-putting; not everyone has P5 skills.

So kudos to those like the OP and his son who are simply seeking to play for as long as they can, out of love for the game. Not for recognition. Not for ego. And certainly not for money.

I disagree. I’ve been here for years. I believe the general mantra is find a place to receive a quality education and have a quality baseball experience regardless of the level. There are plenty of people on this board with experience at all levels.

Any perception to any direction the board might be slanted could be affected by who are the more regular participants at a given time.

There are those of us who have experience at all levels.  Oldest son was only recruited by small schools initially and gave up an opportunity to play mid-major to start coaching career.  Middle son had P5 offers from half of SEC and ACC but chose to play at a mid-major.  Youngest son got offers from all levels but chose to play P5.   There is a place for everyone who really wants to play.  it may not be the level you want but there is a place.

I can see where DD 2024 is coming from. When I first joined over a year ago I felt the same way. After chatting with various people and getting more engaged I found that it is closer to how RJM describes it.

@Target posted:

Here goes.

....

Our oldest kid played sports in college but was done growing at 16 and wasn't injured. That one choose the school academically first, then worked in the athletics. This one wants to study business or engineering anywhere he gets to play between the lines.  I have pushed the issue about going to a school that has a program he actually wants to study.

As parents, we are still along for the ride. We will let him chase his dream as long as it is financially feasible, and  with his age,18 in August, an extra year somewhere won't hurt him.  He has a 3.5 gpa, good student but not top of his class.

So, to follow up on the engineering discussion...

If you take the average college student that comes out of school with a business degree and compare with the average college student that finishes with an engineering degree, there are significant differences.  (I am very much generalizing, so keep that in mind).  The engineer is likely to have more job security, a more normalized schedule that offers more life balance and a better income to support his/her family.  Yes, of course, there are countless very successful business folks.  But you will hear of far more who struggle with those items listed above in the traditional business world than in the engineering field.

When bringing college baseball into the mix, the difference is night and day.  A business major is one of the easiest to navigate while engineering is one of the most difficult.  There are some options out there for engineering majors where it is more easily navigated but those are few and far between and require your attention immediately.   There are many threads here that you can search on that very topic.  Again, many other factors go into the college decision process.  Sounds like you are aware, to a large extent, since you have an older one.

I wouldn't discount TPM's message... everyone has a different delivery style but what she is trying to convey has great merit and she is coming from an extensive background.  Much of what you have shared (comments from coaches, camp invites, etc.,) sounds like it could very well be standard stuff.  Your kid may or may not have reason to read anything meaningful into it.  Gotta go... will finish later.

Telling parents what they want to hear/taking the point of least resistance/parents hearing what they want to hear ....

Our town park runs sports camps in the summer. My son attended when he was a preteen. I saw it more as daycare than instruction. We’re talking about 7-12yos.

The baseball camp was run by a local D1 coach and his players. Chatting with him one time I asked if parents ever ask him if their 7-12 kids can play college ball.

He laughed. He said he has a canned response ... “If he practices hard there’s no telling how far he can go.”

It’s a generic response to keep kids coming back each year. He’s not going to tell a parent the kid sucks, give up and try chess.

I heard parents at LL games saying this coach told them their kid had a shot a college ball.

@DD 2024 posted:

Yes! And we all should be grateful for D2/D3/JUCO/NAIA, Pony League, American Legion, and their counterparts, in every sport. It's about playing, enjoying and growing the game. Indeed, there'd be no MLB without these lower leagues, starting right at LL T-ball.

I am new to this board but I've found it has a strong bias towards P5/D1 and pro ball players. TBH, it's a bit off-putting; not everyone has P5 skills.

So kudos to those like the OP and his son who are simply seeking to play for as long as they can, out of love for the game. Not for recognition. Not for ego. And certainly not for money.

I disagree. Yes, there are quite a few folks on the board whose sons have been blessed with P5 and pro talents. Heck, we have a parent of a projected 2021 1st round draft pick!  Kudos to all of them!  But there are many other users whose sons play or have played at all other levels, and who have always been generous with their knowledge.

The beauty of it is that all levels are represented, and all kinds of high-school experiences also.  If you ask questions about specific levels, you will usually get answers from the people with those experiences.

My son is at a D3.  If I could go back and do it over, the one thing I would have done would be to have had more precise conversations with the summer travel coaches about where my son fit.  Once we started doing that, we found them very helpful.  That's why I give that advice.

IMO many folks and players that come here are hoping that one of those bigger programs will be where they land  but soon find out that its a little bit harder to achieve than expected.  Most newcomers have no clue how hard it is to play this game 4,5 times a week, attend class, and how much harder it is to win a position in a P5 program.

For those who have complaints, there are many folks here whose sons got the opportunity by working hard to get into college and play baseball. But many aren't able to play right now due to COVID, state and county restrictions. How tough is that?

I think that if we did a survey, more than likely mid D1, D2, D3, HA  would rack up against P5 programs.  And very, very few players actually end up drafted.  Do you know how many parents have passed through this site telling  websters that their son is good enough to play pro ball and they are still in HS?

I have huge respect for parents and players who spend time researching all the years of posts on almost every subject on getting onto the HS team, travel ball, showcases, tournaments, grades, injuries, different college conferences, etc, etc.

As stated by many ( see RJM posts), the object for each and every family, is to use sports to help defray the costs of your child's education. 

Everything else is icing on the cake.

My 2 cents:

1. Re: Education - I agree that there is a huge difference between studying Bus & Engineering.  IF your son really want's to pursue Engineering then others on this page my be of more use because I'd suggest he may want to rule out JUCO.  I'm coming from a place where my son choose a JUCO path and plans to study business (which is very broad and transferrable from JUCO).  I also feel that it is the right path for my son from a academic standpoint because IMO he could use another year or two to mature (academically speaking) before he transitions to a University.  IF your son has already taken a lot of AP courses in HS then he may be wasting his time (& money) taking JUCO classes that he doesn't really need.  Neat story: I talked to a D3 coach whose very talented '21 son finally committed to play for him and his D3.  Dad (the coach) told me his sons strategy was to play scouted tourneys this past fall to see what/if any D1's had any interest.  However, even if they did get a good offer there would still be a tough decision to make because the son could go to the D3 school, play right away, graduate in 3 years and THEN transfer to a D1 or choose stay and play his final year at D3 while pursing a masters (awesome choices).  This was a route I hadn't even considered as it reminded me of a JUCO type planned transfer path.  Also, this was before the new "Covid" rules.  Others can correct me if I'm wrong but your son (a '21) could take this same route and still have 2 years at a D1 since he's a late bloomer whose getting healthy.
2. Re: Seeking help from others by asking them for feedback and possibly calling college coaches for your son - Not all travel or HS coaches are the same.  My son's experience was that his HS & Travel coaches didn't really promote him (At least that we know about).  You (and your son) need to determine if your Travel and/or HS coaches would be helpful and useful in reaching out to College coaches.  I've heard of a HS coach that doesn't like to endorse his players (crazy right?).  I'm under the impression that many on here have benefited from coaches helping.  IF your son played this past year I'm wondering if any college level coaches were in the stands.  Did he get any communication from these coaches?  To be fair to our son's coaches: Our story is that we encouraged our son to go ask his coaches for help BUT he didn't want too.  Our son was convinced that a coach would see him play and contact him.  Our son was right and after a couple scouted games & show cases last fall that's what happened.  He was contacted by various college coaches (mostly JUCO's & D3's).  Also, keep in mind that my son is a Pitcher with a frame that projects very well.  I think Pitchers & Catchers are easier to scout and more likely to get recruited than position players unless they have some sort of amazing stat.
3. Re: Last Resorts: IF he did play in front of college coaches but that didn't create any interest from college coaches (OR the interest he received wasn't from at schools that he's interested in) - Then I guess it comes down to his willingness to Walk On somewhere OR pursue club baseball at whatever schools he's considering.  You mention that he's a late bloomer with a history of injury... That is a double whammy for your son.  Keep in mind he could Walk On at a lower level school and then transfer later on to a higher level IF/When he develops.  My alma matter is a big state University that doesn't have a baseball team.  They do however have a baseball club that's pretty competitive (from what I hear).

Good luck to your son & your family on this journey.  Hope he gets healthy and chases down whatever his dream is.

OK, Target, I'm back to continue where I left off earlier...

So, if your son has passion for engineering, there are paths he can take and still play but I would suggest making sure he see's the light with where the emphasis should be.  Pursuing that major would be a very worthwhile path with an excellent 40 yr payoff.  There would need to be a realization that between his injury situation, the current recruiting climate and a difficult major to work around a college baseball career, the chances of doing both will be slim and that's OK.

As much as I am with you on giving our HS age kids a stake in forging their own path, most 17 y.o.'s won't  grasp that realization when weighing something like playing ball vs getting serious about career pursuit.  There are times when "we're just along for the ride" is appropriate and other times, not so much.  I do realize that the correct answer is different for each person, each parent, each family.  Sometimes when we're in the moment, it takes someone delivering a direct "reality" message as TPM so often tries to do in order for us to get grounded, even if it ticks us off at first.  Again, I can't say for certain whether this should apply to you or not - I don't have enough info.  But, I think I'm seeing many of the same indicators that TPM is.  Her messages (directly, indirectly and off-line) have certainly helped one of my sons and myself at many points along the way and continue to this day.

Target, if your son does end up wanting to pursue engineering and have a shot of perhaps playing at a lower level college that is a bit more lenient with ballplayers, I might be able to offer some direction.  Let me know.

BTW, my youngest was derailed with multiple recurring injuries early senior year of HS and first year of college, including a wrist injury and brief redirect to PO.  He did end up somehow successfully playing a full college career and is now in his fourth year of college coaching.  But, there were many points in time where he may have chosen another path and that would have been totally OK, possibly even a smarter decision    It would have been hard for him to see that when he was in the middle of it.

Here is something else to consider... you indicate that you don't think it would hurt to take an extra year.  Again, that may very well be the case.  But do realize that it is not uncommon for college sport to create a scenario where a player is in school an extra year or two, whether injury-related, academic, transfer, extra playing year, change of major, etc.  So, if he takes a gap year now and a year or two gets added later, that is potentially three years of engineer earnings lost or, at least , pushed back (as well as a start to "normal" life, starting a family, etc.).  Not a drop in the bucket.

I can state my kid a current junior faces the possibility of putting a screw in his throwing elbow. Everyone in family with the exception of his selfish typical 13yo teenage brother is bothered by it to a varying degree. I can't fathom the angst your family is going through. I throughly enjoyed the Frank opinions and real options for your kid. I assumed your kid is not a top tier student based on your OP. I think Juco with a walk on will be the best option to allow him some time to heal and redevelop as he is growing nicely and more importantly build up his GPA, especially for an engineering major which is very very popular and difficult program to get into. He is young like my kid (Nov Bday and will start college and almost finish a semester at 17) so he can afford to slow roll it like RJM suggested. Best wishes to your kid and please let keep us updated.

He can work the rest of his life, I see no reason to rush to it. If he is reasonably successful as an engineer starting a year later will change nothing, if he is very successful it is not even relevant to the thought process.

I would agree with TPM's last post above, but might add to this sentence she included in that post:

"As stated by many ( see RJM posts), the object for each and every family, is to use sports to help defray the costs of your child's education.".........or for some to gain admission to a school that the player might not have been able to obtain entry to without the help of a coach.

Ultimately, the point she (and I) are making is using sports to its advantage to either get in to a better school and/or defray the cost of that school.

Some of y'all seem too caught up on two things in my post and you shouldn't be. Let me try to clear that up: "along for the ride" and whatever area of study a 17 year currently thinks he wants.

"Along for the ride" means it is his future, not ours, he may be driving the train but we making sure he doesn't derail. It isn't our dream, so he takes charge and he has, but we support and offer guidance.  We talk to coaches, but not often as Son is more than capable and is very comfortable doing that.  Most coaches he talks to tell him to reach out when he is ready to play again.  Some he is in regular contact with and he provides updates.

Whatever school he is at, he will be taking core classes for the first year or two. Any plans he has for field of study does not mean taking Differential Equations as a freshman.  He has time to decide if business, engineering or whatever is correct for him. We have always encouraged all our kids to use school, whether it be college or trade school, as a set up for a career not just to get some degree you will never use.  No offense to those you have the funky useless degrees as I have one as well. There are some good trade schools with juco baseball programs, FYI.

We have time and he has time.  It isn't a race so if he can still play ball without breaking the bank, I am in.  But playing baseball is under a limited time frame while going back to school never is limited. If it takes him an extra year of two, so be it. He has applied to and been accepted at quite a few schools, baseball and non-baseball schools.

My oldest played all 4 years of eligibility and got a degree in engineering.  It can be done but it wasn't easy. It took 4.5 years and he has not stepped between the lines since he graduated.   Oldest picked out the school (D1) as it had the degree he wanted and the career he wanted. He got accepted and then called the coach.  The first thing the coach asked was "Did you get in yet?"

My oldest looking back said the juco route or PG route to get a few core classes in, up his training, and get used to college would have been ideal.  A lot of his teammates and classmates did that. My oldest graduated high school at 17. Oldest feels that by taking an extra year, he probably wouldn't have made some major mistakes he did but probably would have made a few new less major ones.

Oldest was not a baseball player so here I am on a baseball forum asking for the baseball perspective, options, and opportunities. If you have been there or your kid is in a similar situation, let me know what worked and what didn't work. And if PG, what schools are good.

@old_school posted:

He can work the rest of his life, I see no reason to rush to it. If he is reasonably successful as an engineer starting a year later will change nothing, if he is very successful it is not even relevant to the thought process.

Absolutely. Sometimes college is only about getting transfer credits for the next step of the journey.