Leaving high school early for advancement

TG,
We've had this discussion, I do beleive his dad is a member of the HSBBW? Out of respect for our member's player's, I do not feel his situation does not need to be debated. I htink JD gave a good explanation.

Whatever reason, the decisions that some make are personal ones.

You are putting a huge importance on signing bonus that is not all that important to some players and their families, doing what one feels in ones best interest to achieve the goal, to become a MLB player, for many is sometimes more important than money in the bank.

TG,
You can delete the thread as well since you posted first. But if you want, you all can discuss the issue without naming anyone specific. I didn't want any new posters who have not seen the last discussion bashing his decision.

It is a good discussion. Sometimes bringing up the scenerio is much wiser than bringing up actual names, especially with a player who is not a professional as yet.

There are many who give up some nice $$ to go to college first, Andrew Miller, Justin Smoak of recent times.

IMO, I would have most likely done the same thing as in the end, no one actually knows where one will end up in May for the June draft. Being very young, growing up in college is always a good idea.
Most players that show ML talent will most likely have those opportunities 3 years after HS.

BTW, most first rounders wait it out because their agents tell them to, they don't want them to be the "first" either because that sets a $$ figure. Most players hate it, they just want to move on and start playing.

I said my piece on the first go 'round here but I will state it again--I don't like the idea of 16/17 year old kids giving up their senior spring semester of HS. It had nothing to do with $$.It has to do with a young man missing the great senior year experience of HS--the accolades---the prom --his HS girlfriend---the memories.

quote:

by TG: but the main purpose of college is to obtain the tools to secure a financial future.

This is true, however some families value the "college experience" much higher than you might think. As my son gets closer to college, My wife and I are reminded of our own "college experience".
We are excited that our son will soon have the same opportunity. Needless to say, Our family places a very high value on the "college experience".

quote:

I believe there is a Long Beach player that did the same thing this year however I think the LB players reasons were due more to not being eligible to play

Not only that, Stock was relatively new to catching and had much he needed to work on before he would be ready to play in the major leagues.

The goal of any SMART top potential draft pick is not to get a huge signing bonus, but its to make it to the big leagues and stay in the big leagues. Stock felt going to SC would be the best way he could do that.

I think that realistically the expected draft position given each situation comes into play as well as the maturity required to be successful in the minors.

A lot of kids come out of HS not really ready for minor league baseball. However, they have the talent and the teams usually will give them the time they need to develop. I saw Mark Trumbo play during his first season in A ball and he frankly looked overmatched. He played at the same level this season and from the statistics at least he was able to make a significant improvement with added maturity and experience and one would expect him to move up the ladder over the next few years.

I think it may have been a bit of a surprise to the Stocks just how strong top D1 baseball is, given how easily Robert adjusted to higher levels of play as he progressed through youth and HS baseball.

Given that the jump to the minors is even greater in most cases I think the Stocks made the right decision.

As I noted in another thread, if Robert had started school a year later, he probably would have been looking at an even earlier spot in the draft out of HS and they may have taken a different approach. However, he's a very bright kid and I doubt there was ever any inclination to have him start school later. One of the things people may be forgetting is that he's going to get a good start on his college education at a good school where he's going to make a lot of connections that will help him later in life. If he stays in baseball after his playing career or not, his time at USC is going to be a big advantage later in life. In addition, he'll have had 3 years of good college coaching and competition with a coach who specializes in catching vs. 2 years of minor league coaching and competition and a year of HS coaching and competition. It is a very strong HS league but you can't compare it to the competition he's seen at USC.

BTW, from what little I could glean from seeing how he was after a game and talking to people he has adjusted quite well academically and socially to college life. I only wish I had been as mature when I started college at the same age.

JMO, but looking at where other kids from the league got drafted in 2007, Robert may not have been drafted that early in the first round if he had stayed in HS. For example, Andrew Lambo who I think was a 4th round pick who will do very well in pro ball, outhit and outpitched Robert their junior seasons, although Lambo certainly didn't have the velocity that Robert did. On the other hand if Robert can develop as a catcher and a hitter in college he has a shot at being an early first round pick in 2009.

when i left high school in the 10th grade it was because i had to work.

not every one has had the college experience, not every one is worried about their signing bonus. not that money isn't important, it's not always the engine that drives the bus. what is a lot of money? there are only 30 first rounders that get really big doe. decent the next 3 or 4 rounds ,but what is life changing money?most of us ,(i really shouldn't speak for everyone but i will.) are happy that a scout is looking at our son's in hs.getting into a college is usually the thing of focus. there are the top rounders out of hs, but that is rare as well.
missing your senior yr of hs isn't an easy thing to do,graduating early is even harder in my opinion. and being a top rounder as a hs jr is very rare.but it happens,
you can have advisor's tell you xyz,it's still your future,your family, etc. it can be that what's important to your son isn't what's important to you.


when the question what would you do in this situation? in our case i'd buy a lottery ticket.cause my luck has turned for the better.

TG - since you have changed your original post it seems to have left my response a bit out of context. I can go in and delete my post however you also have a post in which you quoted my response that I cannot delete. Can you please delete this post as well?

Yah JD, same with me, someone sent me a pm asking what I was talking about.


I do beleive TG took out the player he originally mentioned so as not to offend anyone, not realizing that this discussion had taken place before.


It is a good discussion though, and something to think about. What one needs to realize is that this was an unusual situation and the player is extremely talented and had options that others would not have had.

BTW as a 17 year old in the cape this summer that player held his own against players 2-5 years older than himself.

He'll be successful and there are plenty of people watching his progress which might likely be more (since this is what it is about) $$ to him, possibly a MLB contract at 19.

No worries, I just didn't want to any make less sense than I already do.

quote:

TR says: It has to do with a young man missing the great senior year experience of HS--the accolades---the prom --his HS girlfriend---the memories.
TG says: I also agree with TR the player shouldn't pass on the experience of his senior year of high school.

kudos to anyone with the ability/drive & opportunity to advance faster than the norm in any venue, including high school - - maybe jelousy a factor in critics


go figure, evidence suggests that the "high school experience" was invented by "helicopter parents" of the '80's/'90's re-living their youth thru their kids - now it's become contagious!


re HS experience -

Yesterday's Parents said:

"we'll try to make it to some of your games"
"YOU put money aside each week from your part-time job if ya plan on attending the prom & after-prom hayride/picnic"
"if uncle Mike doesn't let you use his 2 door Plymouth, you can take 4 door Olds Delta ...
bring it back w/a FULL TANK"


Today's Parent:

"I'll leave work early to watch "most practices" - if I can't make a practice your instructor will be there"
"I have had "golden level" reserve seats to all GAME events since you were in 2nd grade"
"how much do I need for your prom?"
"which limo company do you prefer?"
"I have frequent flyer miles for your after prom, fax details to my travel agent"

BEE


there are times your inane posts make me laugh---why is jealousy involved ?---I wish the young man the best but I still do not agree with that route and would not recommend it to anyone----just my opinion--has nothing to do with jealousy


By the way the success of the rate of advancement depends on what happens at the end of the day

quote:

by TR: I wish the young man the best but I still do not agree with that route and would not recommend it to anyone

here's how it works - - - pretty simple really

YOU consider YOUR options & plan YOUR moves

others consider THEIR OWN options & plan THEIR OWN life ... then y'all second guess 'em

quote:

Originally posted by TG:

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:

quote:

by TG: but the main purpose of college is to obtain the tools to secure a financial future.

This is true, however some families value the "college experience" much higher than you might think.

I'm one of them. But sometimes you have to chose. I also agree with TR the player shouldn't pass on the experience of his senior year of high school.

If my son was in this position here's my ideal world if the MLB franchise allows it: Attend senior year of high school and be the stud in the draft. Get the bonus. Attend college and join up with the minor league team as soon as college is over early May (if not playing short season anyway). If the player does this for just three years, he's still twenty, has three years of college behind him and most of three years in the minors. Professionally he's still ahead of the players coming in the draft when he's twenty.

If not, sign and take the big bonus and head for the minors. As for training I once read Skip Bertman stating the training in the minors far exceeds the training in college ball.

Isn't this more or less what the Nationals are doing with Jack McGeary? If I remember correctly, alot of teams backed off of him because of what was considered a very strong commitment to Stanford. The Nats got him in the 6th round, and plan to allow him to attend Stanford and join up with a minor league team after he's done with school each year. I think Stanford may operate on the quarter system, which might help (although I'm not very familiar with how a quarter system works). I don't know that the Nationals are starting some new sort of trend, but who knows. We'll see I guess

I agree I got a good chuckle out of that one too!


Bee brings up a great point, everyone plans differently and everyone's situation is different, as your son grows and develops and shows more talent than those around him, you take the necessary
steps to plan for his future and what is best for HIM, not what someone else thinks he should do. We shouldn't judge or second guess anyone else's decision.

JMO.

Emanski you are correct, this was a very creative way to get a player to sign who wanted to go to college.
But as you stated, Stanford is on the quarter system, may have been difficult to pull that off anywhere else. I don't see this as a trend (unless you want to go to Standford).

there are so many more options for today's h.s. student that were not there years ago. today's student can have dual enrollment h.s./college and be taking both high school and college courses. as long as they have dual enrollment, the eligibility clock does not start ticking.
ap courses are available as well. students can also accelerate (whole grade skip) or accelerate in subject areas. independent study is another option within the h.s. setting. there are also students who are enrolled in virtual online high schools that are state accredited. it's no longer set in stone that a student must attend traditional h.s. and take x amount of classes each year, 9th through 12th grade and move through school at a certain pace.
graduating at an earlier age may be what is best for that particular student. they have already taken the required courses at the h.s. in order to graduate.

what are college sports programs doing to take these changes into consideration?

That is a good question, btbballfannumber1.

I just had to sign off on my son's options yesterday. He is a freshman and has the opportunity to graduate a year early, but he's always been young for his grade, and young for his teams. I want to see him finally catch up with his teammates in size and strength and have fun his senior year. He wants to participate in dual enrollment, so we're planning on that.

My HS experience was awful. But I think his can be great. I hope he gets the chance to play at the next level, but I want him to have that senior season first, regardless of what happens after that.

I think you are missing the point of the thread.

Great options available for high school students these days with early graduation and dual enrollment.

However, the post was about giving up senior year, heading to college early and giving up a chance to be drafted after HS and giving up very significant $$$$.

I know of a few non athletes who have given up their senior year and a few athletes who have also to begin their college career early.

You're right - I shouldn't be doing this at work!

i didn't miss the point of the thread. i think my point is relevant to the discussion.
i think that there is an assumption that some players are leaving h.s. early and most think that it has everything to do with baseball and while that may be the case ..........maybe it is and maybe it is not........i'm pointing out that it may be in the best academic interest of the athlete.
there are high school athletes with more and more options than there were years ago. what is a good fit for one athlete ......to stay and play their senior season.......may not be what is best for another athlete. these kinds of options weren't out there for high school kids years ago. it's because of changes at the high schools and options of dual enrollment, acceleration, ap courses, early graduation, etc. that athletes can consider early graduation. sometimes an athlete will graduate after first semester senior year and arrive on their college campus for the spring semester. they are then on campus for the spring and the summer. now we're even seeing high schools that are starting their own virtual schools.

this leads to another question. will coaches be looking to recruit more and more of these motivated student athletes.....the ones eligible to graduate early?

2bmom - thanks. that's good news about your son's options
dual enrollment sounds like a good way to go.

What we've got to remember is that there are incredibly few student athletes who have the academic ability, maturity, baseball talent and skill to make skipping their senior year in HS a valid option.

As a result the answer for the vast majority is stay in HS. For the extremely few cases where the ability, maturity, etc. is there it has to be handled on a case by case basis and one can't come up with a general answer. Too much can change relative to competition in the draft, in college, etc. from year to year.

I say wait until your kid makes HS Varsity before you start analyzing the kid's college/pro decisions. But that is just me.