Lee to the Phillies?

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Originally posted by Jimmy03:
However, in the 20 major leauge and 30 MiLB stadiums in which I have seen games, I have not witnessed any group that could "out rude", "out racial, sexual and disability slur" the Yankee Bleacher Creatures.

They are hard to top but it seems to be encouraged as "passion" by the folks that make all the money of the Neanderthal section of the Bronx Zoo.

Maybe it is a Northeast thing as I seem to think the worst are NY, Philly, and Boston in no particular order!

But again, i am sure since they ended in Philly, a decision based on "proper behaving " fans was not a factor!

I'm guessing Lee liked his teammates in Philadelphia, his wife liked some of the wives/families and they liked the area. He got a contending team within a comfort zone family wise. He got a lot of money without any unknowns.

Here's a financial issue. Lee would pay about 2M more per year in taxes playing in NYC verus Philadelphia.

NY state income tax/top bracket - 8.97%
PA state income flat tax - 3.07%

NYC income tax/top bracket - $3,071 +3.468% over 90K
Philadelphia city income tax - 0

Add in the cost of living is much lower in metro Philadelphia than metro New York. There was nothing better about the Yankees offer.

Re: fan behavior

Rowdy fan behavior is not a northeast thing. Even Californians can be jerks at games. Padres fans spit on Ryne Sandburg's wife and shoved his father in an elevator during the 84 NLCS. Outrageous stuff happens at Dodgers-Giants games all the time. I was at a game where the Giants fans were throwing batteries at the Dodgers outfielders.

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I was at a game where the Giants fans were throwing batteries at the Dodgers outfielders.

Well, that's something Giants fans and Eagle fans have in common then. Did they boo Santa Claus too?

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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I was at a game where the Giants fans were throwing batteries at the Dodgers outfielders.

Well, that's something Giants fans and Eagle fans have in common then. Did they boo Santa Claus too?

Read slower ...Californians ... Giants - Dodgers. Now let's put this Santa Clause thing to bed.

Santa snowball incident shrouded in myth
By Gary Mihoces, USA TODAY

PHILADELPHIA — In a new book titled The Great Philadelphia Fan Book, co-authors Glen Macnow and Anthony L. Gargano contend Philly fans get a bum rap in frequent mentions about that 1968 day when they hurled snowballs at Santa Claus. Not that they didn't do it.

"No event has been used to tar-and-feather Philadelphia fans as much. And no event has been as exaggerated, misconstrued and inaccurately recalled," they write.

Macnow, a talk show host along with Gargano on WIP radio in Philadelphia, says it's all about the circumstances.

"Everybody just thinks that people pelted Santa with snow balls for no reason other than we're mean people," he says.

A crowd of 54,535 showed in a snowstorm that Dec. 15 day at Franklin Field to watch the last-place Eagles finished off a 2-12 season with a loss to Minnesota.

The book says that team owner Jerry Wolman had "dismantled a strong, proud franchise" and hired Joe Kuharich as coach and general manager. Kuharich, who inspired the "Joe Must Go" slogan, traded Hall of Fame quarterback Sonny Jurgensen to Washington for Norm Snead.

At halftime, there was supposed to be a Christmas pageant. Then there was too much snow and muck for a float to parade around the field. Instead, according to the book, a 19-year-old fan wearing a Santa suit and fake beard in the stands was recruited to jog onto the field between two columns of cheerleaders.

The authors don't deny boos were heard and that snowballs were tossed. Are they saying Santa had it coming?

"Santa had it coming for a different reason actually," says Macnow. "Santa was a surrogate that day for Joe Kuharich and Jerry Wolman and Norm Snead. The poor kid just happened to be representing the frustrations."

The authors tracked down the Santa, Frank Olivo, who now lives in Ocean City, N.J. In the book, Olivo says he has no hard feelings. "I'm a Philadelphia fan, I knew what was what. I thought it was funny," he is quoted as saying.

#####

Note: It was a skinny kid in a dirty Santa outfit. The perfect symbol of cheap ownership.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Re: fan behavior

Rowdy fan behavior is not a northeast thing. Even southern Californians can be jerks at games. Padres fans spit on Ryne Sandburg's wife and shoved his father in an elevator during the 84 NLCS. Outrageous stuff happens at Dodgers-Giants games all the time. I was at a game where the Giants fans were throwing batteries at the Dodgers outfielders.

I don't know if it's a northeast thing either, But...I was at a Dodgers/Phillies game this season with my wife and witnessed several obnoxious Phillies fans get booted from the game for starting fights and causing trouble. I've been to a few games at Anaheim Stadium when the Redsox and Yankees are in town to play the Angels, and plenty of fights/disagreements occur in the stands. I've had season tickets to the Chargers for the last fourteen years, and besides Raider Nation, the NY Football Giants and Eagles fans are more boisterous and get into more fights than any other teams that have visited Qualcomm Stadium.

Theres no doubt that plenty of bad blood exists between the Dodgers and Giants, and to a lesser degree Dodgers/Padres, but that's due to divisional rivalries, including our Nor Cal/So Cal Fun and LA/SD Freeway series, etc...As I've said before on other threads, California is a melting pot, many people move here from other areas, including from the east coast. IMO, east coast fans are more passionate than those here on the west coast. Could you imagine large groups of Dodger Fans getting up and chanting "We Own You!" in Philadelphia, New York, or Boston? Well, that's what I witnessed this summer at Dodgers Stadium, Phillie Fans chanting loudly! I have to admit, I admire fans on the east coast, they live and die for their teams...and you definitely don't see too many Bandwagoners. My only problem (as a Native Californian), if you love your team so much, why did you move from ???? to Southern California? Of course that's JMO, and means nothing!

Obviously Cliff Lee enjoys the northeast, he has 100 million reasons to like it and his wife is happy too!

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Originally posted by bsbl247:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Re: fan behavior

Rowdy fan behavior is not a northeast thing. Even southern Californians can be jerks at games. Padres fans spit on Ryne Sandburg's wife and shoved his father in an elevator during the 84 NLCS. Outrageous stuff happens at Dodgers-Giants games all the time. I was at a game where the Giants fans were throwing batteries at the Dodgers outfielders.

I don't know if it's a northeast thing either, But...I was at a Dodgers/Phillies game this season with my wife and witnessed several obnoxious Phillies fans get booted from the game for starting fights and causing trouble. I've been to a few games at Anaheim Stadium when the Redsox and Yankees are in town to play the Angels, and plenty of fights/disagreements occur in the stands. I've had season tickets to the Chargers for the last fourteen years, and besides Raider Nation, the NY Football Giants and Eagles fans are more boisterous and get into more fights than any other teams that have visited Qualcomm Stadium.

Theres no doubt that plenty of bad blood exists between the Dodgers and Giants, and to a lesser degree Dodgers/Padres, but that's due to divisional rivalries, including our Nor Cal/So Cal Fun and LA/SD Freeway series, etc...As I've said before on other threads, California is a melting pot, many people move here from other areas, including from the east coast. IMO, east coast fans are more passionate than those here on the west coast. Could you imagine large groups of Dodger Fans getting up and chanting "We Own You!" in Philadelphia, New York, or Boston? Well, that's what I witnessed this summer at Dodgers Stadium, Phillie Fans chanting loudly! I have to admit, I admire fans on the east coast, they live and die for their teams...and you definitely don't see too many Bandwagoners. My only problem (as a Native Californian), if you love your team so much, why did you move from ???? to Southern California? Of course that's JMO, and means nothing!

Obviously Cliff Lee enjoys the northeast, he has 100 million reasons to like it and his wife is happy too!

First, football is a different situation than baseball. Studies show in most cities there is a football fan base of guys who get together leaving their families behind and do their weekly thing during the football season. This study was looking at why there is more rowdyism at football than other events. Football also has the tradition of tailgating which brings many people into the stadium already legally drunk. And what about those mellow SC-UCLA fans a week ago. They made national news.

The reason people in the east and midwest with teams of lengthy tradition are more into is because it's a generational thing. Chances are the kids, dad and grandpa attended games together. There (OC/LA since I lived there) are probably more transplant diehard Red Sox and Yankee fans than diehard Angel fans. They get to the tickets before Angels fans. In the stadium it's hard to tell who's the home team. It's not hard to be bold when a fan feels like they are at a home game.

Otherwise many of the fans at western games are not genuinely fans. I went to many Angels, Dodgers and Padres games. I pulled for the Angels when the Sox weren't involved. But I wasn't a diehard Angel fan. I saw a lot of the same in the three CA cities I lived.

As for the moving thing I would question anyone's motivation who doesn't move for a promotion because they would be leaving their hometown team behind. Especially in an era when you can read the hometown paper and listen to the local sports talk shows on the internet along with watching the games either on a cable package or online.

I haven't lived in my hometown area since high school. But the team a fan grows up with is who he/she is. I've followed my teams via jumping on tickets as soon as they became available within 500 miles, sports bars and eventually the packages available on Direct TV. Next year I can move "home." Both kids will be out of the house. I can run my business from anywhere.

We're starting to stray a long way from the topic.

RJM,

I agree, we've strayed from the original topic, I simply wanted to address what you said about Southern California fans...no big deal. In regards to the football/baseball differences, there's some tailgating prior to baseball games here too. The Phillies fans that were ejected at Dodger Stadium certainly weren't sober. BTW, I'm not knocking the fans from the northeast, I already said that I admire their passion (I'm probably jealous!?), and your last post paints a picture of the typical family that grows up cheering for a team generation after generation.

If I go to a Dodger/Phillies game at Citizens Bank Park and cheer for my team with my LA cap on, I won't be obnoxious. I won't start a Dodgers cheer with my buddies. If we're getting our b u t t kicked, I'll stay seated and accept the beating...and if we're doing the b u t t kicking, I'll stay seated and enjoy myself...that's just respecting the ballpark and the home town crowd. For the record, I'm a pretty big guy (but getting old )and can take care of myself...I just believe in proper sportsmanship and fan etiquette, nothing more than that.

Back to Cliff Lee, how often is it that we have two teams that become front runners for the WS before Spring Training begins? Man, I hope this McCourt mess is straightened out soon and they're forced to sell the team!

From philly.com:

"Here I am. I never wanted to leave this place in the first place," Lee said during a jam-packed news conference at Citizens Bank Park.

"It’s plenty of money," Lee said. "When you get a certain point, enough is enough. It's just a matter of where you are comfortable, where your family is comfortable … This is about winning championships and this team gives me the best chance to do that at this point."

Lee said he liked the intensity and the volume of the city. He mentioned the fans not needing a message on the scoreboard to know when to cheer.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Re: fan behavior

Rowdy fan behavior is not a northeast thing. Even Californians can be jerks at games. Padres fans spit on Ryne Sandburg's wife and shoved his father in an elevator during the 84 NLCS. Outrageous stuff happens at Dodgers-Giants games all the time. I was at a game where the Giants fans were throwing batteries at the Dodgers outfielders.

Regarding the spitting incident it was revealed that the fans in question were in reality Red Sox fans in Padre gear. As far as battery chucking from Giants fans go, it's a time honered baseball tradition. Right up there with Cracker Jack

Cliff Lee signs for 24M per year. Thirty years ago Dave Winfield signed a ten year deal with the Yankees for 23M. In 2010 dollars Winfield's deal was worth 5.5M per year.

Lee also said that the whole spitting thing with his wife in New York was not true. No one spit on her or abused her in any way. He said the whole incident was overblown and whatever happened or didn't happen that night had nothing to do with him not going to NY.

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Lee also said that the whole spitting thing with his wife in New York was not true. No one spit on her or abused her in any way.

For the record, that's not what Mrs. Lee says. Mr and Mrs Lee have different stories on this topic. How exactly would Mr Lee know, anyway...wasn't he on the field?

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:

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Lee also said that the whole spitting thing with his wife in New York was not true. No one spit on her or abused her in any way.

For the record, that's not what Mrs. Lee says. Mr and Mrs Lee have different stories on this topic. How exactly would Mr Lee know, anyway...wasn't he on the field?

Umm I dunno, maybe he speaks with his wife? I will take his word for it, not a reporter that has to trump up a story by deadline!

That a baby...ignore those direct quotes. She is quoted saying it happened, he's quoted saying it's overblown, neither say it's not true and I guess reporters are misquoting.

These are Mrs. Lee's words as reported in the Phila. Daily News.

"Those incidents did happen," Kristen said yesterday after her husband Cliff was introduced as a Phillie for the second time. "But they weren't directed towards me. No one knew who I was. It was just fans being fans."

Something happened, as they might at any stadium,, but they weren't directed towards her. And they had nothing to do with Lee not signing with the Yankees.
The bottom line to this whole Lee signing is that he wanted to play for the Phillies more than he wanted to play for the Yankees or Rangers.

Read more: http://www.philly.com/dailynew...k.html#ixzz18KhGjvea
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else

Exactly, fills. It happened and was directed at the Rangers' families section, not her specifically. I'm sure it wasn't a factor in the decision. Lee simply thought he could be part of a special rotation and win more WS in Philly than in Texas. By all accounts, NY was a distant 3rd.