Legion VS. Select

BTW, he/we is leaning toward legion.

Welcome to the HSBBW.

You are probably going to get a lot of responses regarding your question.

Couple of things, when making these decisions, they should be made on what is best for your son and your situation, not mine or anyone elses.

I am going to assume that your son just entered 9th grade?

He has a while to go yet, but it's a good time to sit down and discuss what his goals are, does he want to play bb in college, where does he want to attend, in state or out of state. What works best on your wallet (at this time). Those answers might be a hlep in making a plan for recruiting.

You are in a tough spot with the Legion staff being run by the HS staff. I am not sure if that matters at this time. What matters is his develoment, where will he get the best instruction and where will he play the most. The right exposure doesn't need to come until later For added exposure you can send him to PG showcase.

I know that they play good bb in MO, scouts attend many games, they refer players to all types of college programs.

Actually he is in the 8th grade but played Frosh ball this year and has been told he has made the Frosh team for next year (tryouts were in August).

He wants to go to college at Florida. I am trying to get him to keep his sights set there but have a list of other schools that would be acceptable.

He really has his head on straight. He has decided to take summer school the next 4 years so his Senior Spring he can take Underwater Basket Weaving 101, 102, 103, 104, etc.

He is also taking Spanish 1 this year and plans on taking Spanish every year for the rest of school since many pro players speak Spanish.

He is a pitcher, and a catcher, he also plays 3rd, short, and 2nd. In my opinion, (I am always careful to state this) he is a #1 at catcher, #2 at pitcher (since we have another one), #2 at 3rd, and a #2 or #3 at SS and 2nd. He can play first and outfield passably. His fastball is in the 68-72 range. He has a curve, slider, and change up. He will be 14 in October.

Obviously, as with any other kid, he wants to play Pro Ball. Has as better chance than many at this age. He is dedicated to baseball. He works out daily and practices 3 days a week from mid October to March then he gets serious with his team practices. He has a decent bat, excellent glove, above average arm, and 5.1 Home to first and 9.4 first to third speed. He has a 2.3 pop time.

I want to give him every opportunity, but not sure what is the best direction to advise him to go.

I will try to be as gentle as I can. But your son is a good player at this time but certainly nothing special. You just described my son and lots of his peers to a T.

I would encourage you to stay and learn but posts like your previous one will only keep folks from helping you.

If you want to you will learn from the wise folks here that you wont know what you have for at least a couple of years. Relax and have fun. These issues work themselves out on their own from what I have seen here.

Wow, with all of that talent, who needs Legion or travel ball!

TPM

I was trying to head that one off. I didn't want to hurt his feelings but my kid threw a 2.1 the other day.

quote:

Originally posted by BackstopDad32:
TPM

I was trying to head that one off. I didn't want to hurt his feelings but my kid threw a 2.1 the other day.

I am wondering what the HC at FL would think of his post.

I actually got an out loud chuckle reading your post. I don't care about the baseball but learning spanish to understand the guys in pro ball is one of the funniest things that I have heard in a while.

They all speak a form of spanish but they can't understand each other. There is no way high school spanish will prepare him for a minor league locker room any more than high school english will prepare him for south chicago, south georgia or south boston.

quote:

Originally posted by J. Fegley:
Actually he is in the 8th grade but played Frosh ball this year and has been told he has made the Frosh team for next year (tryouts were in August).

He wants to go to college at Florida. I am trying to get him to keep his sights set there but have a list of other schools that would be acceptable.

He really has his head on straight. He has decided to take summer school the next 4 years so his Senior Spring he can take Underwater Basket Weaving 101, 102, 103, 104, etc.

He is also taking Spanish 1 this year and plans on taking Spanish every year for the rest of school since many pro players speak Spanish.

He is a pitcher, and a catcher, he also plays 3rd, short, and 2nd. In my opinion, (I am always careful to state this) he is a #1 at catcher, #2 at pitcher (since we have another one), #2 at 3rd, and a #2 or #3 at SS and 2nd. He can play first and outfield passably. His fastball is in the 68-72 range. He has a curve, slider, and change up. He will be 14 in October.

Obviously, as with any other kid, he wants to play Pro Ball. Has as better chance than many at this age. He is dedicated to baseball. He works out daily and practices 3 days a week from mid October to March then he gets serious with his team practices. He has a decent bat, excellent glove, above average arm, and 5.1 Home to first and 9.4 first to third speed. He has a 2.3 pop time.

I want to give him every opportunity, but not sure what is the best direction to advise him to go.

I'm going to assume this is a sincere post, so forgive me if I'm questioning it a little? First of all, there's nothing wrong with your son setting the bar high when it comes to his goals. Playing Pro Ball and attending Florida are near the top of the mountain. Your son is very young, and according to the numbers you've supplied us with, he has a large mountain to climb. The good news is that he has plenty of time to work his rear off over the next four years to improve.

I have a few questions, maybe it will help us understand?

Why are you worried about college recruiters with his age and the numbers/stats you've posted? Why is he thinking about attending summer school for the next four years, and then skating through his senior year with Basket Weaving, etc...? Why is he looking at learning Spanish for pro ball when he hasn't played HS Varsity yet? Shouldn't he be working extra hard on his game on the field and in the gym during the summer? Also, what makes you think your son has a better chance at pro ball than many in his age bracket? These are just a few questions to ask yourself.

Every parent wants the best for their children and I can certainly appreciate you wanting to give him every opportunity to succeed. I would suggest taking a step back, read your posts, and be honest with your son's abilities. Another suggestion would be to log on the Florida baseball website and read the Bio's of the Gator players. I don't know what else to say, other than he needs to know the size of the mountain in front of him, and to bust his buns over the next four years to climb it. Best of Luck!

quote:

Why is he looking at learning Spanish for pro ball when he hasn't played HS Varsity yet? Shouldn't he be working extra hard on his game on the field and in the gym during the summer? Also, what makes you think your son has a better chance at pro ball than many in his age bracket?

This is great and should be kept around for situations like this.

J. Fegley everyone understands where you're coming from and your opening post was a very credible question. But then you went on the tangent about what your son is doing to prepare for his pro career. While it's good to be proactive you also need to be realistic.

Keep Florida as a first choice for college but have a backup list in mind to. But don't start making it until he's around his junior year. By this time you and he will have a better idea of how good he is.

Let him take Spanish I and II or whatever your school requires for foreign language to graduate. But let him be able to take a class or two just because he thinks it might be interesting.

Let him take summer courses if he's behind academically because that's super important. But don't let him give up his childhood summers on the one in a million chance of playing pro ball. If he's wrong and doesn't make it then he will regret not hanging out with his buddies at the pool. Plus how is going to truly play high level summer ball if he's in the classroom? Since he's in a classroom preparing for his pro career he's not playing in front of the people who will allow him to further his playing career at the next level.

My advice is take this huge mountain of playing pro ball and break it down into smaller goals. Play varsity baseball as soon as you can is a good first goal. Then build from there.

This process will go by quickly and sometimes people spend so much time preparing for a future that either doesn't materialize or it isn't what you thought it would be and they forget to enjoy the here and now.

With all due respect it sounds like your son has some potential but he hasn't done anything yet. Slow down and let him proceed at his own pace.

I knew I should have paid more attention to how I was wording things. Let me back up a minute and restate some things. First I was not putting his times up as something to be special. I put them there as a staement of fact. I know he is slower than most running and his pop time is aveerage at best for his age. The spanish thing was there to give an idea of his dedication to his dream. I realize that the road between where he is and his dreams is rough at best, darn near unnavigable at worst. BUT he is dedicated and his times are where we are. I was looking more for input on what to work on and how to help him best attain his dreams than trying to claim he was any more special than anyone else. I was typing and watching a 9/11 documentary at the same time and wasn't paying proper attention to the tone. I apologize. The reason I said he at least as good a chance if not better is that he does what ever his caches ask of him. They ask for 200 sit ups he does 250. They ask for two hours a week in the cages in offseason he goes for 4. His talent is upper end locally, but average to slightly above regionally. His desire, heart, and willingness to bust his keester is what are his strongest attributes and what will get him to his dreams more than anything.

I do apologize. I am the one that tries to give a dose of reality that he is not the end all and be all. He is good and he has worked his butt off BUT of the 2 or 3 million 13 year olds playing ball this year only 800 or so will be on an opening day roster in the majors. I really did not mean to sound the way I sounded. I am just seeking advise so let me try this again.

I have a kid who is pretty good and willing to work his butt off to be the best and I am wondering which avenue is best for him to take Legion or Select/Travel. Does anyone have an opinion?

quote:

Originally posted by J. Fegley:
I am going to face this dilemna over the next few years. My son will have the opportunity to try out for his local Legion team (which he has made and played for the Freshman squad his 7th and 8th grade years) and a highly touted traveling team. I am being told both are the best oppportunity for him to be seen by college recruiters. I am afraid of the political ramifications if he were to choose the travelling team over Legion as the Legion program is run by the High School staff. Any opinions are welcomed!

OK, so you have many factors to weigh. I would not, for now, consider the college exposure aspect to be important. In fact, with his current numbers, it could be a detriment. This website is loaded with info about what scouts and recruiters look for and when. Just search topically.

Things I would consider...
Affordability, which will be the most fun for him, which will offer the most playing time while still being competitive, which will he get the best instruction, which will be logistically feasible for the family, which does HE want to do, does timing of tryouts dictate that he can try out for one and have the other as an alternative if he doesn't make the first, etc.

The HS tie can work both ways... if he isn't exceptional now and he continues to play with the school coaches, they may be less likely to see the incremental improvements because they are around him all the time. If he plays elsewhere and makes good strides, he may be able to come back and make an impactful new impression. On the other hand, more time with the HS coaches may have the obvious advantages, particularly if he is a hard worker (assuming they are decent coaches).

Another factor is - how big and competitive is your HS program? If ultra competitive, he may need to lean toward Legion as he may need every opportunity to make the next level within the HS program.

Good luck and congrats on having a hard working kid with a passion.

It seems to me that your son's high school timeline comes into play here.

Evidently, he's a 9th grader this year. If that's the case, I see no reason why he shouldn't play Legion ball this coming summer. That way, he gets more exposure to his high school coaches; and, if he's as good as it sounds like he might have an opportunity to be, he can make a sufficient impression on them that they count on his playing on the high school team the rest of his seasons there; regardless of whether he plays Legion beyond next summer.

However, if your son continues to want to play college ball at Florida and ends up having shot at playing there, I think he'd be making a mistake to continue playing Legion ball beyond next summer. Why? Because Florida's coaches aren't going to see him or probably care about seeing him if he's playing Legion ball in Missouri after next summer.

This has nothing to do with his developing as a baseball player in Missouri. Many terrific players come from Missouri; and, if he wanted to play major college ball at somewhere like the University of Missouri, then it's quite possible that the Missouri coaches would notice him playing Legion ball there and make a point of scouting him.

However, with all of the great high school players produced in Florida who are dying to play there, the likelihood of his being a meaningful recruit for the University of Florida coming from his Legion team in Missouri is pretty remote. Instead, if he continues to set his sights on Florida, he needs to find his way on to a first-rate travel team; one that plays in more than one place where the University of Florida recruiters may be expected to be present. If that's the case, then he needs to let them know of his strong interest in Florida before playing at those venues; so that they make a point of getting by a field where he's playing to see him.

Best of luck to him! With continued hard work and expert instruction, anything's possible!

P.S. At the risk of stating the obvious: If he continues to dream of playing at Florida and seems to be developing into a player who's good enough to play there, by all means make certain that you help him understand that Florida can remain at the top of the list; but, that he needs to develop a list of similar programs/schools to consider. A player can be good enough to play at a program of that stature; but, they may not have sufficient need at his best position the year he graduates to recruit him as hard as they would in a year when they need someone like him at his position.

UF roster is 97% Florida players. That's how it has been since Kevin O'Sullivan took over and he's not going anywhere anytime soon, so that is how it will remain. You have to be pretty special as an out of state player to get a scholarship, or a parent is an alumni. Your chances of getting attention are better if you attend a FL JUCO, and that's not coming from me.

What your son brings now to the game talent wise at his age has nothing to do with what it will be when he reaches HS. I am not understanding why folks don't understand that, has nothing to do with what will happen in the next 4 years. And FWIW, playing all of those positions means nothing. Eventually he has to settle into one role and if it's position, he has to HIT. If your son shows ability as a pitcher, lay off the slider and CB and give more attention to FB. To be considered to pitch at UF you have to touch 90 minimum and show projection (a lot more in the tank).

Of the 2 or 3 million 13 years olds playing ball this year, less than a dozen may make a ML team after 3-5 years in milb ball. I hope that you have brought your son to springfield to watch games, that kind of gives him idea of where you have to be at 22,23,24. That's a long time away, try to live and enjoy being 13,14. Work towards the goal of getting a college scholarship, the rest is icing on the cake. His dose of reality will come as he matures.

Take some time to look around the site. I do believe that your asked about legion vs travel, I see you have asked that before in another topic, most likely there was no response because to really doesn't matter at this point in time, JMO.

I do beleive your original question was about playing legion or travel.

Yes it was. Thank you for your input. I am sorry for adding the minutia to the discussion. I am only interested in advising my son as best as possible and feel ill equiped to do so.

For the immediate future the issues are:

• Where can son improve fundamentals/knowledge of game?
  
  
• Where can son enjoy baseball and fuel his passion for the game?
  
  
• Where can son be challenged?
  
  
• What can family reasonably afford in time and money?
  
  
• What are the political considerations - if any?
  
  
• Where will son get significant playing time?

When you honestly answer these questions - your answer should be clear.

Hi J.F. welcome to the HSBBW. I would stay with legion ball and use available resources to attend their camps at UoF. Look at their roster and see how many kids they recruit from out of state. The last time I looked it wasn't many. You can be sure that if they bring someone from out of state he will be a stud at his position. Go early and often ( suggest after 9th grade) to get to know the coaches and more to the point for them to get to know you. After a few camps you should be able to tell how much interest they have in your son. If you can't figure out how much interest, ask the coach while there. Be specific, "Coach, do you think I have what it takes to play here for the Gators?" Let your son talk to the coaches, always.

You are right on with advising your son to make a list of other schools and I recommend spreading it out amoung D1, D2, D3 and NAIA and JUCO. Look at other rosters and see how many they recruit from JUCO. Some D1's will even recommend a JUCO to you if they do not want to pull you in as a freshman.

Good luck.

However, if your son continues to want to play college ball at Florida and ends up having shot at playing there, I think he'd be making a mistake to continue playing Legion ball beyond next summer. Why? Because Florida's coaches aren't going to see him or probably care about seeing him if he's playing Legion ball in Missouri after next summer.

This has nothing to do with his developing as a baseball player in Missouri. Many terrific players come from Missouri; and, if he wanted to play major college ball at somewhere like the University of Missouri, then it's quite possible that the Missouri coaches would notice him playing Legion ball there and make a point of scouting him.

I took this from Prepster as how things go in Missouri. Legion ball has been dilluted by all the travel teams. Mizzou wont see him playing legion ball either. Problem is, why go see two legion teams play one game, when you can go to local tournaments and see a bunch of teams play in one day. But that doesnt seem to matter since the boy has his mind set on Florida.

My boy is a junior, and when he was your son's age, he had his mind set on going to Rice. They had some good leftys running around and he wanted to be one. I didnt tell him at the time, but why would Rice ever recruit a kid from St Louis Metro when they have all that talent closer in Texas. Same goes for Florida. As he got older I told him the truth. Look at the numbers. 2011's had one guy going to FSU and one to Arkansas from around here and that was it. 2012's have one guy going to Mississippi State and thats it. (There are probably more, but that is all I can think of off the top of my head.) My sons 2013 class will have one or two guys going to the SEC and that is it. I had to be honest with my son and say it wouldnt be him. Nothing wrong with setting your sites on Mizzou, SEMO, SLU, MO State. Dont know what part of the state you are from but around here a lot of guys are going to SIU-Edwardville. All pretty good D-1 programs.

What part of the state are you from? There are good travel teams all around that may be good for your son.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
UF roster is 97% Florida players. That's how it has been since Kevin O'Sullivan took over and he's not going anywhere anytime soon, so that is how it will remain. You have to be pretty special as an out of state player to get a scholarship, or a parent is an alumni. Your chances of getting attention are better if you attend a FL JUCO, and that's not coming from me.

What your son brings now to the game talent wise at his age has nothing to do with what it will be when he reaches HS. I am not understanding why folks don't understand that, has nothing to do with what will happen in the next 4 years. And FWIW, playing all of those positions means nothing. Eventually he has to settle into one role and if it's position, he has to HIT. If your son shows ability as a pitcher, lay off the slider and CB and give more attention to FB. To be considered to pitch at UF you have to touch 90 minimum and show projection (a lot more in the tank).

Of the 2 or 3 million 13 years olds playing ball this year, less than a dozen may make a ML team after 3-5 years in milb ball. I hope that you have brought your son to springfield to watch games, that kind of gives him idea of where you have to be at 22,23,24. That's a long time away, try to live and enjoy being 13,14. Work towards the goal of getting a college scholarship, the rest is icing on the cake. His dose of reality will come as he matures.

Take some time to look around the site. I do believe that your asked about legion vs travel, I see you have asked that before in another topic, most likely there was no response because to really doesn't matter at this point in time, JMO.

I do beleive your original question was about playing legion or travel.

Good post TPM, spot on!

You're right, Mizzou. Legion's been diluted everywhere. ...and, because of that, major college recruiters don't use Legion games as a regular source of recruits.

However, if a high quality player decides to play with his local Legion team through high school and makes the coaching staff of a nearby major college program aware of his interest and presence; they're not doing their jobs if they don't attend one or more of his games. It's that way with every ACC and SEC program I know; and, I strongly suspect it would be true at Missouri, as well.

I don't know about legion in other places but our local legion plays some really good baseball. They just added more teams in the league and it seems like it goes by High School. More high schools are having summer legion teams using HS coaches. Our legion teams play Tuesday, Thursday and double-headers on the Weekend...lots of baseball. Because they are sponsored by the local American Legion post it is very inexpensive compared to travel ball. Our legion also plays tournaments all over. We went legion because of cost, quality of the teams and the amount of play.

You said he is 8th grade and played Freshman ball this past year...

If I were you I would be checking to make sure he didn't lose a year of HS eligibility.

Some states might have rules like this:

- Must not participate at the high school level for a period lasting longer than eight consecutive semesters beginning with the student's first entry into grade nine or participation on a high school team.

- Must not participate at the high school level for more than four seasons in that sport (one season per year).

I believe Fegley is from the same area I coach. Many teams around here have summer ball at the V/JV/Frosh/JH levels. So what you will see is the talented 8th graders could move up to Frosh or JV for the summer. It isn't HS ball, but it is coached by the HS coaches at most of our larger schools in the area.

He will still be eligible all 4 years. I would rather not get into the legion vs select part, but just wanted to clear that part up.

legion select in my opinion it DOES NOT MATTER..YOU as a player have to generate interest in your abilties.When you contact scouts they are there to see YOU..not your legion team.they dont give a hoot who you are playing for quite honestly..my son just turned down legion ball to continue to play on his travel team with the buddies he has had for the last 7 years.A coach more than likely will like the fact that he continues to enjoy the game and play it with his friends INSTEAD of running from elite team to elite team for exposure..YOU MAKE THE EXPOSURE..join a website like berecuited or any other to get your schedule up and invite coaches to come and see you...dont run from tourny to tourney hoping someone will be there..get them ther thru personal contact.imo wher you play doesnt matter to a coach

quote:

Originally posted by jazzmik:
You said he is 8th grade and played Freshman ball this past year...

If I were you I would be checking to make sure he didn't lose a year of HS eligibility.

Some states might have rules like this:

- Must not participate at the high school level for a period lasting longer than eight consecutive semesters beginning with the student's first entry into grade nine or participation on a high school team.

- Must not participate at the high school level for more than four seasons in that sport (one season per year).

Realteamcoach is correct. The Legion program does not affect his eligibility. Yes he played some for the Frosh team. But not the high school Frosh team.

Mr Fegley, I am not sure if you are in the STL metro area or not but if you are and you think that you son, who has aspirations of playing at one the top SEC Schools, will recieve any exposure to top colleges by playing Legion you are mistaken. The legion ball's talent level is severely watered down and will get him nothing. At least here in St. Louis anyway...if you can afford it the Pirates are the best travel ball organization with the Gamers and Prospects not far behind...

At his age I would advise that he play for the coach who is the best at teaching the game.

I hate to simplify it but... Where the best players/prospects are is where you will find the most scouts/recruiters.

Finding the answer to that is not that hard. Check out the first couple rounds of the draft every year. Find out where they played in the summer while in high school. Check the all american rosters and see what they do during the summer. Check the major college recruiting lists and find out where those players played in the summer. Check the Cape Cod rosters for the same information. Check Major League players that are 28 years old or younger.

I think the answer will become very clear.

quote:

Originally posted by twotex:
At his age I would advise that he play for the coach who is the best at teaching the game.

Regarding his senior year of school, unless I'm mistaken, colleges like to see a student take a normal full course load that year rather than a bunch of fluff. I think it better prepares them for the rigors of college studies.

Son played on a Legion team after graduation....1- because it was local in our area (no traveling 11/2hrs to East Cobb any more!) and 2- cost was minimal.

With that being said hindsight I wished he had played on another EC team or one equivalent to it. The "level" was below par here...IMO. But he did get in some innings on the rubber which is what he wanted before getting to school. So, we got what we paid for essentially.

YGD

I am not so sure what advice about college that a parent needs to give a 13,14 year old in 8th grade.

When our pitcher was that age his dream was to play at UM. We never said anything to him other than to work hard in the classroom and on the field and all good things will happen. There was no need to tell him anything else, when we got into serious recruiting he was able to figure it out for himself, and realized that there were lots and lots and lots of other programs that were just as good if not better, and more interested in him than the UM coaches. Once he realized it wasn't a good fit, he was fine with the fact that he would never be a Hurricane, so I understand.

FWIW, my son played at Clemson for the current HC (his pitching coach) at UF (also the pitching coach) and I have to tell you that he is by far, the best instructor that my son has ever worked with. Your son has quite a few years before serious recruiting begins for him. Maybe in a few years you could plan a trip to their camp, not necessarily for recruiting but for some great instruction to help in his game.

Couple of things, hate to repeat, but your son sounds like a jack of all trades but master of none.
Give your son a few years to find his niche, where he will be best at playing in HS and later.

Don't discourage your son, if he wants to play at UF, let that be the force that drives him, don't worry if it doesn't happen. He'll figure it out (probably before you will). BTW, he doesn't need 4 years of spanish or 4 years of basket weaving, encourage him to take on more difficult subjects, honors and AP classes, this will open more doors for him than his baseball ability.

I don't know much about Missouri travel vs legion, you have gotten some great advice, and I suggest that you just try to enjoy it while you can because you will turn around and he will be off to school somewhere, and you will look back and realize while you should have been enjoying it all you were too busy worrying about the next step.

I also once again encourage you to take your son to as many AA games in Springfield as you can, this provides great incentive and he can learn alot by observing.

J. Fegley.....listen to these folks...your son has a long way to go.. listen to TPM read her posts wait a few weeks then go back and read them again....calm down...it's an great feeling to know your son is a good baseball player and that others are noticing him....but enjoy this time....some times the future does not always work out the way it should or the way you want it to.

TPM I think that is a great post you made. But as for this comment.....

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I am not so sure what advice about college that a parent needs to give a 13,14 year old in 8th grade.

the only advice you should give is "get good grades". Like you said - the grades will open more doors than anything.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
TPM I think that is a great post you made. But as for this comment.....

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I am not so sure what advice about college that a parent needs to give a 13,14 year old in 8th grade.

the only advice you should give is "get good grades". Like you said - the grades will open more doors than anything.

Coach,
I meant as far as baseball. Most people who know me know that I beleive that what takes place in the classroom is very, very important.

Legion baseball has seriously dilluted themselves, talent-wise. Here's an example.

Bum, Jr. played legion ball up in Washington for a short period of time after moving up from Las Vegas (where he played on travel clubs). He was at the time the only 8th grader on a 16u legion team in the entire league.

He then later joined one of the best travel teams in the NW. After he left, I checked the legion rosters out of curiosity. I kid you not by then at least 1/2 of the players in the league were now 8th graders and a bunch were in the 7th grade (16u level)!

There was no comparison, talent-wise, between his h.s. summer travel team and legion baseball. This is not a knock on legion, it serves its purpose, but concentration of talent is not one of them.