Let the coaches decide...please

My honest opinion is that it sounds like a bunch of thin skinned coaches whining about being second guessed.

Nothing matters but the guy in the mirror...he knows if you're doing it right.

Atually, we wrote this article from a parents perspective. No coaches were interviewed or consulted on this. We ourselves are parents and we don't like the way ill informed parents think they know everything about the game and the way it should be coached, just because their son sits the bench. That's life.

I gotta agree with CPLZ. Your article is whiny and defensive. I'm curious as to what kind of response you expect from your "rant" from those whose money you wish to procure. I don't think it will be very positive.

I'm not sure where you and CPLZ are going with this. We are criticizing parents who sit in the stands and whine and complain that the coaches are terrible just becuase their son is not playing. That's all.

We were watching a hotly contested league game in our area the other day and both teams had more than a few collegiate recruits on their teams. That's why we were their.

We happened to sit next to a group of parents whose sons sat the bench and all they did was complain that the coaches were a joke...and they were very vocal about it to everyone in the stands...all because their kids didn't play. We had to move. We had asked a few of the other parents that were sitting on the first base line why they were sitting there and not in the stands...(we were baiting them for the answer we thought they would say) and they replied, "to get away from all of the negativity." They liked the coaches and not just because their kids were starting.

Our article just asks the question...what gives these parents the credentials to make those kinds of accusations about their sons coaches?. The coach in question is highly respected in the community BTW and wins a lot of games.

Rounding Third- Thanks for the article. It was meant to help educate the parents and the only people who would take offense would be the ones who are guilty of what you speak of (lol). Your blog is the best, cutting-edge thing going out there. Keep up the great work!

Rob Bruno
NorCal baseball

Before you pass judgement, read some of the other articles that were written on this site. Many of them have been very helpful and positive. As a matter of fact, many of the articles have come straight from this site.

Thanks Rob, Coming from you and your cutting edge travel program...that means everything to us.

RT

Hey, Rob. Please be careful of whom you speak. Mine is most definitely not on the bench. I have no problem with his coaches and don't appreciate the insinuation. I just think this article is completely ineffective. These parents that Rounding is talking down to aren't going to change.

BBfam, I don't mean to pass judgement, and I apologise to you if it seems so. Rounding Third asked us to look at this particular article. Even though my own son was the target of these kinds of parents last year, I find the article to be, well, spitting in the wind.

2Bmom-You are right, they did ask for our opinion. I think their heart is in the right place though.

I don't know them but it seems as if they frequent this site. Lately, there seems to be many posts by parents that are upset with coaches regarding playing time or whatever. My guess is that it stems from that and it is quite frustrating. My son won't even be in HS until next year so I don't know what that will bring but I do know that even now I get tired of hearing parents complain and second guess coaches and what not. If you don't like it-switch teams. The kind of complaining that they are talking about is a cancer and can ruin it even for the kids not involved.

2Bmom- Please don't take offense if it doesn't apply. That said, there IS a problem with SOME parents and we DO need to educate them.

I will take another tack. College coaches and pro scouts are not only looking at your son- they are looking at you. The last thing they want is a package deal. We try to teach perspective and being process-oriented in our program. Too many parents are reactionary and live "in the minute" instead of understanding the journey.

Bottom line- I think "travel ball" has developed a culture of people who don't get what the big picture is. They are too results-oriented and, as a rule, can be very selfish and myopic. That's not their fault. I blame the culture of prioritizing the wrong things involving the "travel ball culture".

Most parents are great. Trust me, I'm incredibly fortunate to have the ones I have in my program. That said, I do see a problem as a rule and the people who have the experience have a duty to educate the player and the family for their own good.

My initial take on the 'article' was negative but I did re-read it and realize where they were coming from. Having watched my husband coach for many years and hearing all the second guessing in the stands, even from the starters' parents who insisted their kid go for the fence instead of bunting like the coach planned, I just learned to tune it out. Otherwise, all we get are stomach ulcers and sore tongues from biting them all the time.

My take on why this has become so prevalent ... I think the good ideas behind 'elite' teams have become very diluted ... Seems everybody wants to start an 'elite' team of their own so that their sons can play on a regular basis, whether the players are really talented or not. Then parents from that team start believing ... rightly or wrongly ... that their sons are qualified to play on the highest level team and if they get picked up with a high quality team, don't understand why their sons are sitting on the bench. (There is also a bit of a problem with teams having so many players on the roster that more players are sitting than used to sit.)

ncball has a very high quality program with truly talented players ... altho we live in different parts of the same state, our son has competed against his team and even with some of the players themselves (that migrated north ...). I have watched his parents in the stands and there does did** not seem to be the same kind of jabbering that we saw on some of our own teams. That says a lot about the program. [**had to change the verb tense ... it has been a few years, right Rob?]

Guess the best thing to do ... leave the area and find a better place to enjoy the game if it is too difficult to tune out the whiners. Sometimes it is very hard to do and really takes away from the enjoyment of the game.

FutureBack- Thanks for the compliment. We are very fortunate that our parents "get it". We don't educate them for OUR benefit. We are trying to do it for THEIR benefit. It's our job to get them to the next level and part of that is making sure they are a family-friendly package for the college coach or pro scout.

Do you think that the same parents being targeted for the article will ever see the article?

You never know. Some of them are posting here. They just don't seem to get it and don't realize the harm it may do their son in the future. I certainly don't want to be the one responsible for my son missing out on an opportunity.

ncball

I think that you feel that I do regarding this--the parents need more education than the players--it is great when the parents get it and learn how to enjoy the trip

TR- Agreed. I really like parents as a rule. I think it's important that they understand we are not in an adversarial position with them but trying to educate them along with their sons.

nc

I like them to feel as if they are part of the team or as we call it "our family"---it sure does make things run smoother

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
...the only people who would take offense would be the ones who are guilty of what you speak of (lol). Rob Bruno
NorCal baseball

Rob,
You trying to win the award for narrow minded and offensive jerk?

What you know barely scratches the surface of what you think you know.

TR- That's what we call it as well. Honestly, those are the things that are important in the end. The lessons you learn and the relationships you build. Baseball is truly a microcosm of life.

CPLZ- Thanks for the positive reply. Sorry you didn't get that I was speaking "tongue in cheek". The fact that you take offense probably means you qualified as one of those people in the article.

I initially replied because I think Rounding Third does a great job and has alot to offer. Read their articles and I'm sure you would like them. Sorry you took offense to my post.

Amen to that , Rob !!!!

The relationship between life and baseball that is

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
CPLZ- The fact that you take offense probably means you qualified as one of those people in the article.

Sorry you took offense to my post.

Rob,
Is your intent to be offensive or apologize, you've done both here, which is it?

Again your ignorance comes shining through.

quote:

Originally posted by Rounding Third Staff:
I'm not sure where you and CPLZ are going with this. We are criticizing parents who sit in the stands and whine and complain that the coaches are terrible just becuase their son is not playing. That's all.

Rounding Third,
You are as guilty as the parents you're condemning. They sit in the stands and whine and complain about the coaches, then the coaches come on a message board and whine and complain about the parents. That's where I was going with it.

Coaching takes broad shoulders and thick skin. Being a good parent, just like being a good coach, is not easy or always pleasant. The rewards are pretty extreme for both, but it doesn't come without a price. Pay the price, keep quiet, keep moving forward, and don't worry about accolades or naysayers.

Chip- My intent was to be sarcastic. Happy fishing to you.

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
Chip- My intent was to be sarcastic. Happy fishing to you.

You missed.

Sitting in the stands and second guessing the way the game is coached is a time honored tradition. Everybody has a different approach so even the best coaches are going to be second guessed. So what?

If it gets excessive, gets nasty, or the parents start undermining the player/coach relationship then there's a problem, but if it is nothing more than second guessing the coach it is just normal. Personally, I prefer first guessing. I like to say the way I think it should be called before the play and if the coach calls something else and it works or calls the same play and it doesn't then I look dumb. So what? That's half the fun of watching a game.

By the way, in answer to some of those questions early on in the article it is because some of the parents have been playing and coaching for 30 or 40 years and have had these kids playing for them year around for 6 or 7 years.

This article sounds to me like someone whose kid is in the lineup because of favoritism who is hearing it from the parents in the stands and isn't happy to be hearing it.

Is that a fair statement? Of course not. It is just as bad as the statements made about parents in the article. Why do people have to pick either coaches or parents to cut down? Both are right and both are wrong at times.

The parents behavior at games is the main reason why I don't ump anymore. It doesn't matter what age group anymore. The parents of tballers are just as bad as the HS parents. At a local HS game I umped (will remain nameless) I was challenged to a fight. This ended when I told him that I am a police officer, so after I kick his you know what, I will take him to jail.

Without starting a flame war, I have noticed the "worst" behavior of both parents and kids at the so called select games, tourneys and leagues.

Because of this, I am now retired from umping. I get enough grief at work, I don't need it at my second job.

Dear posters,
Wow, this topic got heated while I was away. Listen, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I appreciate everyones input.

I think there is a tendency for many parents to be a little too myopic when it comes to their children. The way I look at it, complaining is just another way of pushing the blame on some one else. That, in our opinion, is a disease. Once you do it once, it becoms easier to do it again and again. And what is learned from that approach to life.

Listen I haven't liked bosses, company policy or certain work situations at times, but I don't let it consume the job I have to do. I do what's best for me (give 100+% to my job and do my best) and my situation (supporting my family) and just move on. If the parents I heard are being so vocal to strangers like me, I'm sure they are being just as vocal about their feelings to their kids as well. And what does that teach their kids?

It's sad to think that this goes on. Sometimes, parents just need to let go and let the kids deal with the situation all by themselves. The kids with the parents that allow the coaches to do their job, will look back upon their time on the team a few years from now and see it as a great learning experience and life lesson.

An another note...CPLZ, again this article is not defending coaches as much as it's educating parents. There's not one coach that asked us to write this. Every coach I know is thick skinned enough to not let this kind of stuff bother them. But it bothers me...it bothers me because it affects the kids, the morale and the game in general. Also, there's no reason to attack posters on this board. That's a little childish, don't you think?

Ca Dad,
You bring up a great point. Second guessing is a game in of itself. It's been a part of the game and is what fuels talk shows and message borads alike. I love that part of it. That's OK.

It's the bad attitude...the bitterness and the outright lack of respect of why their kid is not playing or the lack of respect for the players that busted their butts to be on that field that bothers us. It's Ok to hear it once or even twice, but we have been exposed to parents that just won't let go and make life in the stands miserable.

Good post and observation though. It has given us another idea for a future article.

Rounding,
On a completely different subject looking a little further down than that article, Crespi is a good team and deserving of respect, but I believe the coaches, whose opinion I respect of course , have them ranked 8th in the 3rd strongest division in the southern section. Hard to see how they could be ranked 6th in the nation. They aren't even the best team in their league unless they can come up with a sweep to end the season.

Since this thread somewhat dovetails the thread I started regarding the parents in the stands let me add this footnote

I had the opportunity to chat with the coach of one of the teams in the game I attended. He asked a great question: "I saw you in the stands the other day at the game. Do you always sit with the "snipers"?

And then he laughed ---that about says it in a nutshell doesn't it !

Here's a perspective - How about enjoying seeing your son out there competing (along with his teammates)? Life is too short to do much else. As he moves to bigger fields in faraway places you will miss him.

Our son played on elite teams (nc ball's), other travel teams, high school teams and college teams. There will be bumps along the way, and it rarely can be put totally at the feet of the coach. It is up to your son to make the coach change his mind about playing time (not you). A parent's negative message to their son cannot help. NCball is exactly right about "the journey."

It has been my experience that the most knowledgeable parents are often the quietest ones, and the best coaches tell their fans to respect the umpires.

I recently went back to our son's old high school to see a game, and I had forgotten all the yahoos shouting stupid insults at the umpires and the players - all well within earshot and intended to hurt and traumatize, as well as the parental complaining and whining. Meanwhile, there was a good game some people were missing.

Nice article RT

CA Dad,
These polls are just for fun...we are still rewarding Crespi for their Anderson Bat win. Polls aren't scientific. If you look at all of the polls out there, they are all over the board with different teams and different reasons and that's what makes it so much fun. But given that info you gave us, we definitley will look more closely into SOCAL games this week.

quote:

Originally posted by Rounding Third Staff:
An another note...CPLZ, again this article is not defending coaches as much as it's educating parents. There's not one coach that asked us to write this. Every coach I know is thick skinned enough to not let this kind of stuff bother them. But it bothers me...it bothers me because it affects the kids, the morale and the game in general. Also, there's no reason to attack posters on this board. That's a little childish, don't you think?

Ok then, if you take the stance that you are ultimately more qualified to make baseball decisions because of your expertise in coaching, what qualifies you to educate parents on behavior?

The answer is nothing. You are trying to spin what is a really bad idea on your part, publishing a rant. You wanted an honest opinion and then didn't like it when you got it. Have you noticed that most of the support you've recieved is from coaches?

IMHO if your effort was to educate parents, it's a miserable failure. You want parents to shut up and watch, maybe your advice to yourself should be to shut up and coach?

CPLZ-Actually, most of the support I've seen has been from parents. Like I've said before, parents like those in the article are a cancer for the whole team.

quote:

CPLZ

CPLZ,
Only three of the responses and support were from coaches and I am not a coach either. Above all, I have about 3 dozen e-mails I can show you ...all from parents that have supported our article. I'm not sure where you are getting your info. Sounds like you are just a bitter man that likes to pick fights.

quote:

Originally posted by Rounding Third Staff:
CPLZ,
Sounds like you are just a bitter man that likes to pick fights.

LOL, ignorance runs rampant in this thread. Just another of your examples of why you shouldn't be advising people on their behavior.

Judging from your responses, it looks like you came on here for some affirmation of your beliefs rather than an honest evaluation of the text.

CPLZ,
I shouldn't be surprised that this is your response. You are one of those guys that is always right and everyone else is an idiot. You sound like a barrel of fun to be around. Have a nice day!

quote:

Originally posted by BBfam:
CPLZ-Actually, most of the support I've seen has been from parents. Like I've said before, parents like those in the article are a cancer for the whole team.

Cancer for the whole team is a bit strong, don't you think?

Disagreeable parents have been around as long as parenting. The text of the article crossed the line to paint any parent who second guesses or talks about a coach or his decisions as problematic.

Anyone who thinks that a truly problematic parent is somehow going to read a text like that and become enlightened is fooling themselves.