Well, the first of the steroid boys is up for the HOF. What should happen?
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If HOF is an acronym for Hercules Of Fraud then...
First Ballot, No Doubt about it.
First Ballot, No Doubt about it.
When will he or when should he.
Will be: First Ballot
Should be: Never
Will be: First Ballot
Should be: Never
Mark McGwire hit 49 homers as a skinny rookie with the A's - I doubt he was on steroids then and that season offered some proof he was a potential hall-of-fame talent. My gut tells me he got into steroids later in his career probably as the result of trying to overcome injuries. Either way, it was wrong. There are people in the HOF far worse imho such as Ty Cobb. I don't have a problem with sending him a message and making him wait a time or two but I think he belongs in the HOF. To be consistent, I realize that also means I would support Bonds for the HOF. Yes, I would. Bonds is not the most likable fellow, yet his talent is undeniable.
And what about Pete Rose ?
Pete Rose...
IMO, the MLB is much too inconsistent with their rulings. Did McGwire use steroids? Yes. However, he has stated many times that the substance he used was not illegal at the time. This does not mean I accept and support his decision to take it, but nonetheless, it wasn't in the rules.
Should Bonds be in the HOF? In my mind, no doubt he should. Whether or not he took steroids is irrelevant, before the accusations started to come he already had 500 home runs AND 500 stolen bases and is only only person to do so.
Palmeiro could be another argument because his numbers aren't nearly as gloated as the two previously named. But IMO, McGwire and Bonds both deserve to be in the HOF. Whether their records have permanent asterisks next to them in the future doesn't matter, their sheer dominance and presence in the game alone merits it. Plus, they didn't take steroids their whole life, as ClevelandDad stated, and, like I said with Bonds, their numbers regardless are HOF material.
Pete Rose...
IMO, the MLB is much too inconsistent with their rulings. Did McGwire use steroids? Yes. However, he has stated many times that the substance he used was not illegal at the time. This does not mean I accept and support his decision to take it, but nonetheless, it wasn't in the rules.
Should Bonds be in the HOF? In my mind, no doubt he should. Whether or not he took steroids is irrelevant, before the accusations started to come he already had 500 home runs AND 500 stolen bases and is only only person to do so.
Palmeiro could be another argument because his numbers aren't nearly as gloated as the two previously named. But IMO, McGwire and Bonds both deserve to be in the HOF. Whether their records have permanent asterisks next to them in the future doesn't matter, their sheer dominance and presence in the game alone merits it. Plus, they didn't take steroids their whole life, as ClevelandDad stated, and, like I said with Bonds, their numbers regardless are HOF material.
Pete Rose...
if they let either of these guys in,they have to let pete in.have to.and vica verca.
cheatins ,cheatin
cheatins ,cheatin
Ken Rosenthal, FoxSports has weighed in on the subject...excerpts from his article:
"With all due respect to my colleagues who say they cannot reject a player's candidacy without concrete evidence that they used performance enhancers, I say, "baloney"..... "This is not a court of law; there is no burden of proof requirement. Voters in fact, are instructed to consider not just a player's record and ability, but also his integrity, sportsmanship and character"...... "And right now my answer is no". (Ken Rosenthal)
I'm not going to debate this issue....have done it too many times in the past....what will be will be....and I wouldn't vote for him either...
"With all due respect to my colleagues who say they cannot reject a player's candidacy without concrete evidence that they used performance enhancers, I say, "baloney"..... "This is not a court of law; there is no burden of proof requirement. Voters in fact, are instructed to consider not just a player's record and ability, but also his integrity, sportsmanship and character"...... "And right now my answer is no". (Ken Rosenthal)
I'm not going to debate this issue....have done it too many times in the past....what will be will be....and I wouldn't vote for him either...
A cheater, is a cheater. If you let one in, you gotta let em all in. If you keep one out........so on and so forth. Some of them are adding lying to their repertoire with their testimony in court and Congress. Baseball is heading in the same direction that football and basketball have already gone.
So then what's everyone's opinion on Pete Rose?
Pete Rose is one of the "BEST" to ever play the game---what he did on the field is all that should matter---there are men in the HOF currently who have done worse---Ty Cobb, Fergie Jenkins et al
Maybe there ought to be a HOFBS ( Hall of Fame Before steroid use ) and a HOFAS ( Hall of Fame After steroid use )???? ha! 
Well,...guess its really not a laughing matter.
Well,...guess its really not a laughing matter.
let McGwire in the HOF. if you keep McGwire out they will have to keep countless others out. we just have to accept the fact that most people took steroids and just let them in. its sad but its true.
JH,
I am not a Pete Rose fan. Without question, he was found guilty of betting on baseball. On the other hand, the man also is not allowed to make any profits from anything his name is associated with regarding MLB. I think he has tried to pay back his debt, but he will never be allowed into the HOF for what he did on the field becauseof what he did off the field.
The others have not been found guilty so they most likely will get in.
But I have to side with LadyNmom, becoming a HOF is also about integrety and for me all of the above players lack it.
JMO.
I am not a Pete Rose fan. Without question, he was found guilty of betting on baseball. On the other hand, the man also is not allowed to make any profits from anything his name is associated with regarding MLB. I think he has tried to pay back his debt, but he will never be allowed into the HOF for what he did on the field becauseof what he did off the field.
The others have not been found guilty so they most likely will get in.
But I have to side with LadyNmom, becoming a HOF is also about integrety and for me all of the above players lack it.
JMO.
CD
McGwire and Conseco come up thru the Minor league system together, A,AA,AAA,Major's.
They had steroid's back then.
Do I think it was wrong.. YES
But I don't Blame them to a point??
I think they where just Nieve to the consequence
of there action's.
Oh go ahead no one will know are care, Wink Wink.
Well we do care, and that's why your seeing such a backlash.
But I think as sport's fan's and parent's we were also Nieve.
And allowed it to happen on are watch.
Before we woke up and said this is wrong.
EH
quote:Mark McGwire hit 49 homers as a skinny rookie with the A's - I doubt he was on steroids then and that season offered some proof he was a potential hall-of-fame talent. My gut tells me he got into steroids later in his career
McGwire and Conseco come up thru the Minor league system together, A,AA,AAA,Major's.
They had steroid's back then.
Do I think it was wrong.. YES
But I don't Blame them to a point??
I think they where just Nieve to the consequence
of there action's.
Oh go ahead no one will know are care, Wink Wink.
Well we do care, and that's why your seeing such a backlash.
But I think as sport's fan's and parent's we were also Nieve.
And allowed it to happen on are watch.
Before we woke up and said this is wrong.
EH
“But I think as sport's fan's and parent's we were also Nieve.
And allowed it to happen on are watch.
Before we woke up and said this is wrong.
EH”
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" ~ excerpts from Bill Clinton's grand jury testimony
And allowed it to happen on are watch.
Before we woke up and said this is wrong.
EH”
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" ~ excerpts from Bill Clinton's grand jury testimony
Pete needs to get in line behind Shoeless Joe Jackson who received a "lifetime" ban and died in 1951, I believe.
The Associated Press surveyed about 20 percent of eligible voters, and only one in four who gave an opinion plan to vote for McGwire this year. That's far short of the 75 percent necessary to gain induction.
Atrocious lifetime batting average and his "testimony" before Congress did it for me.
No HOF.
No HOF.
quote:Pete Rose is one of the "BEST" to ever play the game
...for a guy dosed up on greenies every night. However, he was obviously not alone and neither was McGwire. Big Mac ain't getting in for a long time, if ever. Nobody expects these guys to be saints. They don't like cheaters though.
Ok, so I'm a Cardinals fan and so...
As a society, when did we change from the American notion of "innocent until proven guilty"? Does pleading the 5th, the right of every citizen in the U.S. and in accordance with the Constitution, mean someone is guilty? When does "taking the advice of my attorney" assert 100% guilt? When does taking a product that IS LEGAL (ANDRO) as well as allowed by the league at the time considered a detriment to either the league or player? Has anyone proven otherwise regarding Big Mac? American are hypocritical as a society and chose where they want to sit in judgement. I know many posters will assert that if it were them they would have testified ... Yes and you would have also match so many heroic achievements of famous Americans if given the chance since it is always easier to sit in judgement than walk the walk.
Of course some well noted pitchers will enter the hall in a couple of years despite allegations and yet, those allegations will go unnoticed since some players are considered above the game. Wait, nothing has been proven against them as well.
I know I'm in the minority and so be it.
ONE FURTHER POINT, HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE PLAYING AGAINST BIG MAC DID THE SAME? IF YOU KEEP BIG MAC OUT, THEN KEEP THE ENTIRE ERA OUT!!!
As a society, when did we change from the American notion of "innocent until proven guilty"? Does pleading the 5th, the right of every citizen in the U.S. and in accordance with the Constitution, mean someone is guilty? When does "taking the advice of my attorney" assert 100% guilt? When does taking a product that IS LEGAL (ANDRO) as well as allowed by the league at the time considered a detriment to either the league or player? Has anyone proven otherwise regarding Big Mac? American are hypocritical as a society and chose where they want to sit in judgement. I know many posters will assert that if it were them they would have testified ... Yes and you would have also match so many heroic achievements of famous Americans if given the chance since it is always easier to sit in judgement than walk the walk.
Of course some well noted pitchers will enter the hall in a couple of years despite allegations and yet, those allegations will go unnoticed since some players are considered above the game. Wait, nothing has been proven against them as well.
I know I'm in the minority and so be it.
ONE FURTHER POINT, HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE PLAYING AGAINST BIG MAC DID THE SAME? IF YOU KEEP BIG MAC OUT, THEN KEEP THE ENTIRE ERA OUT!!!
Well put CoachB 
I'm afraid that Mac will end up being the sacrificial lamb. With that said, the voters had better realize that they are setting a precedent for future candidates and when you start imposing personal opinions on "here-say" the HOF starts looking like a personality contest versus one based on accomplishments.
I'm afraid that Mac will end up being the sacrificial lamb. With that said, the voters had better realize that they are setting a precedent for future candidates and when you start imposing personal opinions on "here-say" the HOF starts looking like a personality contest versus one based on accomplishments.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
Ok, so I'm a Cardinals fan and so...
ONE FURTHER POINT, HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE PLAYING AGAINST BIG MAC DID THE SAME? IF YOU KEEP BIG MAC OUT, THEN KEEP THE ENTIRE ERA OUT!!!
Not a bad idea at all Coach.
I believe that the league must start somewhere with meaningful changes and enforcement to protect the integrity of the game while at the same time lessening the temptations of using dangerous drugs by our young and impressionable athletes...the league owes this to its fan base and its players and would greatly benefit itself by cleaning things up.
Let's take a look at McGwire's numbers.
263 lifetime average
1626 career hits
1414 career RBI's (ranks 60th alltime)
583 career Homeruns (ranks 7th)
Rookie of the year
World Series win 1989
Gold Glove 1990
Never won an MVP. Of the 583 homeruns, 245 were hit from 1996 through 1999. This period of time represents the time most in question about steroid use. His average HR production was 32 in years which would make his career number approximately 400 without the anamoly of the 96 through 99 time period presented.
If 500 is the magic number let's look at the 500 club.
Hank Aaron- career 300 hitter, 3000 hits.
Babe Ruth-do I need to go there
Willie Mays-career 300 hitter, 3000 hits, multiple MVP's, multiple Gold Gloves
Frank Robinson-294 career avg, 2900+ hits, triple crown winner, MVP both leagues
Harmon Killebrew-closest to McGwire with more hits and higher BA
Reggie Jackson-Post-season alone seperates him
Mike Schmidt-10 gold gloves, multiple MVP's
Jimmie Foxx-325 career BA, played in dead ball era
Willie McCovey-again close but better numbers across the board
Ted Williams-maybe greatest hitter ever, lost 3 years serving with Marines in WWII and Korea
Ernie Banks-played shortstop in era when ss didn't hit HR's
Eddie Matthews-third baseman one of best swings ever
Mel Ott-304 career average held run record until broken by Mays
Eddie Murray-One of three players with 3000 hits and 500 homeruns, only switch hitter with that distinction
Does McGwire belong in this group just because he hit 500 plus homeruns? The only argument you can make is Killebrew.
I vote NO!!!
263 lifetime average
1626 career hits
1414 career RBI's (ranks 60th alltime)
583 career Homeruns (ranks 7th)
Rookie of the year
World Series win 1989
Gold Glove 1990
Never won an MVP. Of the 583 homeruns, 245 were hit from 1996 through 1999. This period of time represents the time most in question about steroid use. His average HR production was 32 in years which would make his career number approximately 400 without the anamoly of the 96 through 99 time period presented.
If 500 is the magic number let's look at the 500 club.
Hank Aaron- career 300 hitter, 3000 hits.
Babe Ruth-do I need to go there
Willie Mays-career 300 hitter, 3000 hits, multiple MVP's, multiple Gold Gloves
Frank Robinson-294 career avg, 2900+ hits, triple crown winner, MVP both leagues
Harmon Killebrew-closest to McGwire with more hits and higher BA
Reggie Jackson-Post-season alone seperates him
Mike Schmidt-10 gold gloves, multiple MVP's
Jimmie Foxx-325 career BA, played in dead ball era
Willie McCovey-again close but better numbers across the board
Ted Williams-maybe greatest hitter ever, lost 3 years serving with Marines in WWII and Korea
Ernie Banks-played shortstop in era when ss didn't hit HR's
Eddie Matthews-third baseman one of best swings ever
Mel Ott-304 career average held run record until broken by Mays
Eddie Murray-One of three players with 3000 hits and 500 homeruns, only switch hitter with that distinction
Does McGwire belong in this group just because he hit 500 plus homeruns? The only argument you can make is Killebrew.
I vote NO!!!
Just My .02
He will get in......
Not first ballot, maybe not second.
This years first ballot HOF'ers are Ripken and Gwynn.
He will get in......
Not first ballot, maybe not second.
This years first ballot HOF'ers are Ripken and Gwynn.
It is also time for Jim Rice to get in
what about andre dawson? he has great numbers, maybe not a hall of famer this year with gwynn and ripkin on the ballot, but this is his 5th year on ballot and i think eventually he should get in.
If they really want to make a statement in the realm of good guys vs. bad guys:
Don't vote for McGwire.
DO VOTE FOR DALE MURPHY!!!
Don't vote for McGwire.
DO VOTE FOR DALE MURPHY!!!
why not Jose Canseco for the HOF
7 time all star
rookie of the year and MVP
1st 40-40 guy
Plus a best selling book &
Reality Show
AVG. 266 HR 462 RBI 1407 SB 200 17 years
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Jose-Canseco.shtml
Mark McGwire
rookie of the year
12 time all star
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Mark-McGwire.shtml
AVG. 263 HR 583 RBI 1414 SB 12 in 16 years
7 time all star
rookie of the year and MVP
1st 40-40 guy
Plus a best selling book &
Reality Show
AVG. 266 HR 462 RBI 1407 SB 200 17 years
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/Jose-Canseco.shtml
Mark McGwire
rookie of the year
12 time all star
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Mark-McGwire.shtml
AVG. 263 HR 583 RBI 1414 SB 12 in 16 years
Ruth, Mantle, Mays?
And the rest of that list?
None of them could go toe to toe with this fella:
http://images.43things.com/profile/199922pw400.jpg
Ya Gotta Believe!!!
And the rest of that list?
None of them could go toe to toe with this fella:
http://images.43things.com/profile/199922pw400.jpg
Ya Gotta Believe!!!
Best to put an asterisk next to the entire era.
As much disdain as anyone of us can feel for players and the tainting of baseball records or achievements by steroid users, we don't have the entire list of offenders, and that includes the pitchers. Who knows how many? Why does an undersized guy all of a sudden hit 51 bombs, and the times before and after has insignificant numbers?
Bonds has only one person to face up to, and that is Hank Aaron. If he juiced up, then he has to live with the fact that his potential achievement was tainted. It takes nothing away from Hammerin Hank at all. He did it literally and figuratively with a gun to his head!!
Remember, the sweetspot is a small area, and it takes oooodles of talent to deliver it to the baseball. How much influence did Round 2 of puberty via the Juice have?
It really is only a prescription favorable to those with the talent to begin with?
For those, the question is merely, WHY?
As much disdain as anyone of us can feel for players and the tainting of baseball records or achievements by steroid users, we don't have the entire list of offenders, and that includes the pitchers. Who knows how many? Why does an undersized guy all of a sudden hit 51 bombs, and the times before and after has insignificant numbers?
Bonds has only one person to face up to, and that is Hank Aaron. If he juiced up, then he has to live with the fact that his potential achievement was tainted. It takes nothing away from Hammerin Hank at all. He did it literally and figuratively with a gun to his head!!
Remember, the sweetspot is a small area, and it takes oooodles of talent to deliver it to the baseball. How much influence did Round 2 of puberty via the Juice have?
It really is only a prescription favorable to those with the talent to begin with?
For those, the question is merely, WHY?
He's marginal for the HOF at best and the probable steroid use tips him out of the running.
I'm a Jim Rice fan also and would like to see him in the HOF.
I'm a Jim Rice fan also and would like to see him in the HOF.
Some players I'd far rather see in before him:
Ken Griffey Sr.
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Tommy John
Roger Maris
Fred McGriff
Jack Morris
Buck O'Neill
Jim Rice
Dave Stewart
Ken Griffey Sr.
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Tommy John
Roger Maris
Fred McGriff
Jack Morris
Buck O'Neill
Jim Rice
Dave Stewart
Heres a few I want to see get in there:
Al Weis
Kenny Boswell
Ed Kranepool
Al Weis
Kenny Boswell
Ed Kranepool
Ok, so I'm being a jerk. Hey, if you took a cortisone shot, you don't deserve the hall. Didn't it enable you to play when you otherwise couldn't? In doing so, did it enhance performance? I should know, one year I topped out and was refused another shot by my Doctor when I tried to continue to push my torn up body to play. His stats don't match up? I love it when people post stats and then skew their point when they interject opinion in lieu of fact when stats don't match up.
What about what Big Mac did for the game (along with Sammy Sosa) after the baseball strike? Does that count for anything. Everywhere you turned, the tube was on watching that historic homerun race. It was the rage at the time. BASEBALL NEEDED IT AND NEEDED IT BADLY! Can any of you dispute that? Ok so I just took another sip of soda and I'll be fine in a minute. Deep breaths - Deep breaths - ok I'm alright now.
BTW, I don't want anyone to think that my judgement is clouded because I once taught his wife. LOL!
What about what Big Mac did for the game (along with Sammy Sosa) after the baseball strike? Does that count for anything. Everywhere you turned, the tube was on watching that historic homerun race. It was the rage at the time. BASEBALL NEEDED IT AND NEEDED IT BADLY! Can any of you dispute that? Ok so I just took another sip of soda and I'll be fine in a minute. Deep breaths - Deep breaths - ok I'm alright now.
BTW, I don't want anyone to think that my judgement is clouded because I once taught his wife. LOL!
1) Why is it OK for Gaylord Perry to cheat (and write a book about cheating his entire career) and get into the HOF?
2) McGwire did what any one of you would have done in a Congressional Hearing. Why is he suddenly the enemy? He averaged 36 HRs in his first 6 seasons. Certainly one of the best of his time.
2) McGwire did what any one of you would have done in a Congressional Hearing. Why is he suddenly the enemy? He averaged 36 HRs in his first 6 seasons. Certainly one of the best of his time.
I can see the ESPN25 headlines 30 years from now.
Joe Schmo not voted HOF in because of bionic arm surgery
Schmo a 300 game winner for the Mexico City BorderJumpers was refused Hall induction because of a banned elbow surgery once known as Tommy John reconstruction now called the Andrews Slice. MLB outlawed the surgery after it was noted that the surgery was becomming elective at the LL level. Medical advancements since 2010 not only improved velocity but also the longevity of a pitchers career.
Not since HGH "Man Breasts" were banned has there been such controversy. Initially baseball owners enjoyed the crowds that the 110mph fastball brought in, and the sports writers had some heros to write about. Writers finally complained that stats were boring and wanted to change there opinion on the "Slice" due to down readerships.
Long time MLB commish, Bullwinkle, said that a poll on the HSBBW was the determining factor to ban the surgery.
IS BIONICS THE NEXT MLB HURDLE?
Joe Schmo not voted HOF in because of bionic arm surgery
Schmo a 300 game winner for the Mexico City BorderJumpers was refused Hall induction because of a banned elbow surgery once known as Tommy John reconstruction now called the Andrews Slice. MLB outlawed the surgery after it was noted that the surgery was becomming elective at the LL level. Medical advancements since 2010 not only improved velocity but also the longevity of a pitchers career.
Not since HGH "Man Breasts" were banned has there been such controversy. Initially baseball owners enjoyed the crowds that the 110mph fastball brought in, and the sports writers had some heros to write about. Writers finally complained that stats were boring and wanted to change there opinion on the "Slice" due to down readerships.
Long time MLB commish, Bullwinkle, said that a poll on the HSBBW was the determining factor to ban the surgery.
IS BIONICS THE NEXT MLB HURDLE?
Coach, you taught McGwire's wife...to do what? 
(You dog, you.)
As a Cardinal fan I, too, have more sympathy for Mac. He did take andro (not a controlled substance as steroids are and legal in the MLB at the time). He did have some physical traits (bad skin, injuries) associated with steroids, though we have no information that he ever tested positive (nor do I know if he was ever tested).
However, there are more causes of bad skin and injuries than steroids. He has always been big (differentiating him from Bonds and Sosa).
I wouldn't be shocked if it was reliably revealed that he did take steroids, nor would I howl in disbelief if it were reliably reported that he didn't.
McGwire was very low-key and private during his career in St Louis. His earlier Wild Child gig with the A's messed up his first marriage and then he grew up. Unlike most superstars, he had one house and one car. No lifesize bronze statues of himself in the garden like Pudge, no A-Rod indoor putting rooms. His trophies and awards were spread around his family and friends' homes and offices (including, oddly enough, his dentist's office).
No string of endorsement deals post-career like Jordan. No "appearances". He got married again and became a private citizen. That was his M.O. before the hearings, so no need to suggest it was a result of same.
That he elected to make an ill-advised 'take the Fifth' statement fit right in with what he said he was going to do when he retired....have an out-of-the-spotlight, low-key life. It didn't quite work out that way for him.
It will be a difficult vote, because it will be seen to set a precedent.
Of course, these are many of the same bozos who gave Sosa the MVP award in '98, saying it was because they made the playoffs and the Cards didn't, then gave it to Bonds repeatedly without regard to the Giants' record. And the same bozos who so worship the Home Run that they based this year's NL MVP voting pretty much on that stat alone. And the same bozos who now self-righteously quote the andro in his locker and the physical traits --- all of which were right in front of them in '98 --- as horrific evidence of the Tainted Steroid Era, despite their Purple Prose of Worship while the Great Home Run Race was going on.
These guys have got the memories of goldfish, a politician's ability to justify any action no matter how contradictory, and too often show the understanding of the game of a rice farmer in Kuala Lumpur.
They won't vote McGwire in, and I'd be willing to bet McGwire no longer cares.
(You dog, you.)As a Cardinal fan I, too, have more sympathy for Mac. He did take andro (not a controlled substance as steroids are and legal in the MLB at the time). He did have some physical traits (bad skin, injuries) associated with steroids, though we have no information that he ever tested positive (nor do I know if he was ever tested).
However, there are more causes of bad skin and injuries than steroids. He has always been big (differentiating him from Bonds and Sosa).
I wouldn't be shocked if it was reliably revealed that he did take steroids, nor would I howl in disbelief if it were reliably reported that he didn't.
McGwire was very low-key and private during his career in St Louis. His earlier Wild Child gig with the A's messed up his first marriage and then he grew up. Unlike most superstars, he had one house and one car. No lifesize bronze statues of himself in the garden like Pudge, no A-Rod indoor putting rooms. His trophies and awards were spread around his family and friends' homes and offices (including, oddly enough, his dentist's office).
No string of endorsement deals post-career like Jordan. No "appearances". He got married again and became a private citizen. That was his M.O. before the hearings, so no need to suggest it was a result of same.
That he elected to make an ill-advised 'take the Fifth' statement fit right in with what he said he was going to do when he retired....have an out-of-the-spotlight, low-key life. It didn't quite work out that way for him.
It will be a difficult vote, because it will be seen to set a precedent.
Of course, these are many of the same bozos who gave Sosa the MVP award in '98, saying it was because they made the playoffs and the Cards didn't, then gave it to Bonds repeatedly without regard to the Giants' record. And the same bozos who so worship the Home Run that they based this year's NL MVP voting pretty much on that stat alone. And the same bozos who now self-righteously quote the andro in his locker and the physical traits --- all of which were right in front of them in '98 --- as horrific evidence of the Tainted Steroid Era, despite their Purple Prose of Worship while the Great Home Run Race was going on.
These guys have got the memories of goldfish, a politician's ability to justify any action no matter how contradictory, and too often show the understanding of the game of a rice farmer in Kuala Lumpur.
They won't vote McGwire in, and I'd be willing to bet McGwire no longer cares.
Orlando, Stephanie was a very sweet and attractive young lady when attending the school I taught at during her high school days. (Not the school I'm at now.) She was a very talented athlete in her own right and is extremely intelligent. Of course, I had nothing to do with the intelligent part. Yes, Big Mac kept a low profile while here in St. Louis. He has continued to do so away from the game. Has anyone considered that he quit when those drugs became banned in the game instead of trying to decieve the public as to his use? If nothing else, can't he be respected for that. I saw a quote from one of the media casting a vote that said that taking the 5th was akin to saying he was guilty. If so, that sportswriter needs to sit in one of my classroom when we learn about that precious documents that protects all of our rights as U.S. citizens = THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Yes CoachB25 that document does protect people from self incrimination from the GOVERNMENT. It does not prevent people from using common sense and experience to determine whether somebody is being truthful with us. Yes his silence cannot be used against him in a court but the court of public opinion is not bound by the constitution.
The problem is that people are lost on the steroids issue he doesn't cut it on the numbers. Yes in 98 he saved baseball, and in 04 he destroyed it.
The problem is that people are lost on the steroids issue he doesn't cut it on the numbers. Yes in 98 he saved baseball, and in 04 he destroyed it.