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Let them play

CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I hope that this post helps save some of you some of the headaches that I went through. I know that some of you will not agree with me and thats ok. But here I go.

I got approached by a man a few years ago and he wanted to start an elite baseball team and play AAU. I was approached about my son and when he found out I was a High School coach he asked me if I would help out. I wasn't sure what to think about all this travel ball and AAU tourney stuff but I decided to go to a try out. Well I was impressed with the talent of some of the kids and I decided to let my son play because he wanted to play at a more competitive level. After a couple of tournements the parents of the team convinced me to coach the team because none of the coaches (all dads) had any coaching experience. I had nothing to do with the selection of the players on the team that was already in place. The (Board of Directors) had a policy in place that there was no guaranteed playing time and it was up to the coaches, me and two other dads. We had 14 players on the team. Well we start playing tournements and we were very good. We were so good that we were playing all the weaker players on Friday and Sat morning and then we would go with the A-Team in the Championship round to ensure the gold medal. We went 36-2 and the only losses were on a week end were several starters were not allowed to play because it was Easter weekend. We won the State AAU championships and then won the Little League State Championship. Half our team played for one Little League and the other half played for the other. We met in the District final and my side won and went on to the state final which we also won. I became increasingly conflicted by my own desire to win and my desire to see that all the boys got a chance to play not only in the pool games but in the big medal games. The other coaches and most the parents saw it totally different than me. They said this was an elite team and we were here to win and if a kid could not handle not playing all the time they needed to go play rec ball. I saw it as being 9-10-11-12 year old kids and they needed to play to improve and how did we really know what they could do if we never gave them a chance. Well there started to be a rift between my philosophy and the other coaches. Parents of the "studs" were always scouting other teams we played and saying "We need to get that short stop from so and so he could really help us". There began to be a constant turnover rate where we were constantly "upgrading" our team as they put it. Now Im not complaining about my sons situation he played alot and was one of the better players on the team. And so were the players of the other coaches. But what was really bothering me was what was I teaching my son. What were we teaching our players? You dont have to work hard and improve as a team you just go out and pick up the best player off the team you just beat. I have actually seen a 12 year old kid travel from NC to Tenn to play in a tournement and stay FRI SAT SUN and play one or two innings and get 1 at bat. What is that? I don't care anyway you slice it its bullSh*t. This is not High School its kids that need to play and have fun and learn the game. And yes they need to learn to sit every once in a while and learn to pull for their team. I had to walk. I am ashamed of the fact that I allowed it to happen because of my own desire to win. I learned a valuable lesson and I made a decision to leave what I could not change.How many young kids that loved the game and would have developed into great ball players have been discouraged because of stuff just like this? LET THEM PLAY. And if they are not going to play dont put them on your team in the first place. It needs to be fun and enjoyable for all the kids. Yes they need to hustle and listen and work hard. And if they dont then bench them. But don't put winning ahead of teaching the love of the game and giving every young kid an opportunity to learn and grow. If you keep them LET THEM PLAY. And if they are not good enough to play for you LET THEM PLAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE.
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TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Therer is another means of assuring what you desire with playing time at that level--- Carry 15 players---2 catchers-- one player for each poosition--that is 9 players--then add six pitchers who also play other positions and serve as backups for those field positions

They will see plenty of playing time regardless of how you slice it

In the LL I ran a few years back we had 12 man rosters which vitually assured the kids of loads of playing time

If you want to do it you can-- trust me
Last edited by TRhit
chipperjchipperj10+ posts
We play select ball mainly in the Houston area but are from the Beaumont Golden Triangle area. Though the Golden Triangle is small by no means, we struggle to keep a full roster of 10-11 players. The teams we play against in Houston are constantly changing players and rosters. I have never seen anything like it. It is like a major league draft sometimes. It is usually which team will give them the best "deal". They'll play with a team for a little while, lose a few games then go to the next team with the best offer. We have seen many teams form and break up over the past few years. There are very few that stay together over a year. These are 13 year old kids. Our team, despite our small roster,has been able to compete very well with these teams, but it is the lack of loyalty to a team that the kids/parents has that is amazing. I don't see what this teaches these kids. What we as a team have tried to do is get kids that will be playing HS ball together so they will be better as a "team" in HS. The grass always looks greener on the other side, but we have seen it too many times blow up in their faces.
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
Our roster stays at 10-12 and playing time is equal. Winning just isn't that important. We are 11U now and have 8 kids on our roster that have been with us since we started at 8 years old. Just learning the game.

You are a part of our team until you choose not to be. You are not replaced for "upgrades". You are not cut.

I know a few kids living in VA and playing for a NC team - 3-4 hours away. Crazy.
F FieldBuilder100+ posts
Coach May, been there and done that. I know what you are talking about. Though I'm still heavily involved with my team, I run it differently now than I did with my first son.

We do a round robin of playing time. The players rotate into starting positions depending on pitching and catching duties. This is due to rules in the various organizations such as playing 10, DH, EP or EH, play 10 and hit the line up, etc. has allowed this type thing to work. My players are all good and like you say, they all need to play. This is how we have worked it for two years now even against national power house team. The kids who never sat the bench learn how to do that and support their teammates. The one player who could not accept this way, left the team. He was replaced by two outstanding young men.
Basically, we chose a starting 9 with an EP and the others sit the bench till 3-4 inning. Then the bench players are inserted into the line up. We rotate the first 10 as equal as possible with the free sub rules. The bench players for that game become starter for the next game and so forth. The players had to buy into the system. They are good kids and want to share.

The best thing that has come out of it is that we have become a real team who care about being a team. It has aided us in learning how to play as one unit. When we play in qualifiers and state tournaments, we do this system. We finished No. 1 in VA. We did this in the AAU nationals, we finished 5th. A formula. Very good athlete + strong work ethic + caring polite and positive kids = A winning TEAM.

During early spring and fall we alway bat the roster with free subs. we don't care about the out come. We want our team ready come time for the national tournaments. We'll take some lumps now and then, but this helps in the end as well.
As you say,
quote:
LET THEM PLAY. And if they are not going to play dont put them on your team in the first place. It needs to be fun and enjoyable for all the kids.

We work hard at doing the little things that help each player become as good as they can.
C CoachRobert100+ posts
It's so typical, happened to my son's team when he was going from 11U to 12U.

Top 2 players + head coach's kid left to join a "super" team. Well, 2 out of 3 are now subs because the super team kept on recruiting.

Too bad because one could have pitched in HS but now hasn't pitched in 2 years on the super team.

They sandbag and collect trophies instead of playing up or going to Houston or Dallas and taking on real competetion.

The upside is that by taking over as coach I was able to learn a ton of stuff about baseball and people, and make some friends in the process.
baseballbumbaseballbum100+ posts
Wow this was a great post. As a parent of a LittleLeaguer who had his first taste of TravelBall this season I would have to agree with you. My son tried out for a team here in Cali and made it on his own merit. He was told before he even joined that the best players will play! No if's ands or but's about it.... Knowing this he still tried out and made the team.

Now I have watched him grow from batting 9th to becoming a powerful clean up hitter. He earned it and didn't whine or complain when other kids in front of him were striking out or weren't producing. Another key is to have a coach or manager who does not have any kids on the team, we didn't run into any Daddy's Kids dilemas at all...LET THEM PLAY

The point I am trying to make is that the team he joined did not change their players when they weren't producing, they developed them and placed them in high pressure situations and also watched them excel.(LET THEM PLAY). Doing this allowed them to be one of the better teams in the local area without sacrificing play time, even though they mentioned it upfront.

I have also witnessed some backstabbing and recruitment of all the best players to join a certain team. Team Chemistry is certainly lost and what will you do with a team who practically think and feel that they have no need to get better??? I am happy I stuck with my guns and joined a team that was honest and upfront with us, sure we won many games but we also developed into a good team with great team chemistry, something that is very rare in travel ball.
O ORmom100+ posts
When my son was younger, he played on a select team considered to be one of the best in the area. He was able to hold his own and played well but the tension among the players and parents took the fun out of the game (for all of us!). We took him off the team and let him play with a "lesser" team. They didn't win as much and my son was definitely a "stud" on the team. But it gave him back that love of the game and the fun of being there just to play with his friends. Everyone thought we were crazy and ruining his chances for later-he's going to lower his ability, not try as hard, get discouraged,etc. Didn't happen! My son was a starting Varsity pitcher last year for the high school-as a freshman! Just let them play and have fun while learning about the game. If they truly love the game and have ability,things will turn out fine.

Chipperj-we're from the Houston area and have been through what you were describing-its incredible what goes on (and sad!) Just isn't necessary.
T T-Ball100+ posts
Coach May,
Once again you are my hero! What a great topic and honest post… I could not agree more with your post. In five years of coaching I can not think of a game where I / we ever intentionally did not get a kid into play (unless for disciplinary reasons). If the rules did not allow continuous batting, we asked for an exemption and were usually given an exemption by generous tournament directors. IMHO there is no reason not to get a kid in the game, especially to win a game. If he was good enough to recruit to on to the team, then you better see he gets some play time.
Much of my “evolved philosophy” came from the many mistakes I single-handedly made with my older son and seeing his love for the game get crushed in one simple season at the age of 12. He was at or near the bottom (12 man roster) of a national championship team. Though at the lower end of his team, he was not too far back of the mid-tier players on the team which would have made him a starter on most other teams. The team run-ruled many of their games, yet the coach did not seem to get him in much, even in pool play. Throughout the season I looked at the situation as a great teaching time for my son…All those life lessons to be learned… hard work, keeping positive, perceived fairness, and take advantage of the excellent coaching he got, etc. Being a coach of a younger team at the time, I never said one word to his coach about play time.

My son, now 16 and playing a different sport, credits that single season with causing him to hate baseball and said he’d much rather played than won a national championship. Now I’m sure there were other things including myself that causes him to use the hate word, but playing time was a big factor. Looking back maybe kids at 12 aren’t looking to learn life lessons in a kids sport, their just looking to play….


I post the above with no intent to offend anyone on their coaching decisions or style. There is no right or wrong. I would submit for you coaches that prefer to continuously “upgrade”, win at all cost, and play 9-man ball, that you spell out your philosophy quite clearly to every parent and PLAYER on the team when they sign on. Having the mettle to do that as a coach will save a lot of heartache in the long run.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
I have seen this happen many, many times, particularly on teams coached by ex-Major League players. These coaches are great teaching players individually, but when they have teams of their own, they are cutthroat and run the teams as if they were professional organizations. This is probably because it is what they know.

Of my three sons, one has benefited, one has suffered and the third is jumping in as I write.

But it is unfair to limit it to the ex-pros. I have seen it on nearly ALL of the best teams I have seen.

And, as long as a family goes in with eyes open, I don't see a problem (although it is always difficult when it is your son on the bench and an emotional wreck -- or certainly the parents).

There is, however, a different way.

What I prefer is to select a team and limit that team to no more than 11 (reluctantly 12) players. Then stick with that team through that particular season. If you want to upgrade, do it when the season is over.

Our own competitive team is like this. We have had essentially the same roster for five years, with the exceptions of two players who have moved and two we have added. We can beat the top-level teams in AZ and CA and the West -- and have done so -- and we can lose to teams that leave you scratching your head.

Other than the ongoing debate of whether to play more or less, this has kept our team close and happy.

Our players are 13 now and have developed a different rates. If we were to begin today, undoubtedly, we would not begin with the same group. We will not get rid of anyone, but we are looking to add to the roster. We have 12 today -- one more than when we started. When we have 11 (or 10) there are never problems. At 12, you can see issues developing slowly. As soon as you hit 13 it becomes very, very tough and disruptive for the reasons listed above. Beyond 13, all hell breaks loose.

Then it becomes insidious. Players leave. The new players usually are good and another older player is pushed out of the lineup and turnover becomes frequent and involves numerous players.

What's even tougher is when you have a team that wins, let's say, a Babe Ruth championship. At some point in tournament play (sometimes more than once) you have the opportunity to add selected players from the losing teams. This just makes the cycle much worse, but is absolutely required if you want to win.

I see it in spades at the Connie Mack level among the top teams, where all the players are very, very good -- many D-1 and professional level players in waiting. But, then, that is competitive baseball.

I am not saying one system is better than the other. And it is no easier among older guys than with younger guys -- usually fewer options for the older group.

But, it is a two-way street. The team will have a philolosphy that is either embracing or cold-hearted or somewhere in between, and the player and his family are looking for an opporutunity to flourish, usually on a high-level team. Sometimes it just does not work out and the player is left disappointed an robbed of the joy of the game, often for making a decision that never should have been made and sometimes based on overestimating his own stature in the game.

It is a jungle out there at every level.
H HotCornerDad100+ posts
I tried to do just that. I started a 7U team, we played in 4 tournament, two were 8U tournaments, one of those the USSSA 8U Western World Series. As soon as one dad was not happy with me focusing on developing players instead of winning he poured poison into the works. Took three other players with him, the team broke apart under the rumor that I was not going to manage any more, 11 of the Original 12 still play on select teams, but I will not put the group back together. I did not head the warnings from others when I recruited the Kid who's dad spread the team out. Yes I am not going into details on purpose, we all know the type. The kid is on his 4th select team in 16 months. His biggest obstacle to having fun playing ball is his dad. Frown was a nice kid too.
H HotCornerDad100+ posts
Yes, I forgot to turn on the BS meter for the parents when I met them, live and learn. I try to hold out hope for everyman, then I cut their head off, hee hee. kidding biglaugh (This is a joke, I am not wearing flame retardant nickers.)

I laugh about it now seeing the frustration of the coaches that recruit this kid. He has a lot of raw talent so he will continue to get offers for teams until his dad is forced to start one of his own. The team he is with now may last the longest, the coach seems more interested in winning over developing players. The player turn over is already high for an 8U team, laugh
W Will1,000+ posts
What has been described above this elite travel or whatever it goes by is the reason why kids stop playing baseball. You are talking about kids that are 9 -12. Kids that like baseball and have some ability get caught up in this win win win thing and get frustrated with all the politics and kids moving from one team to another. I can tell you who won national championships at the college level but if you asked me what 10 year old AAU team won I could not tell you and I do not really care.
CallawayCallaway500+ posts
Will

With all do respect... are you suggesting that there are no politcs in rec ball?? It's worse in rec ball.

My son LOVES AAU/USSSA ball because it's "real" baseball and he gets to play with the best talent around. He does not care for playing with kids that are not as serious as he is and he gets frustrated playing on rec teams that have kids that have never even played before...

For my son, travel ball isn't about winning a national champioship, it's about learning to play "baseball" and being able to compete with and against players that are as good as him or better.

My son commits to a team for one season only. Once commited, he will stay with that team regardless and will not entertain offers from other teams. At the end of the season we re-evaluate.

I like him playing with other kids and other coaches. He has learned more because of it. JMO.
W Will1,000+ posts
Callaway

There is politics everywhere. I saw it with my son coming up. when having 2 games canceled at the end of the in house league when he was 13 I asked why I was told that they have to get the tournament team ready. there were 7 teams with 14 kids who all payed their fees sold the 50 50 tickets etc etc etc. 14 players were "chosen" for the tournament team so the 80 + kids some who had some games not played just were not as "important" they did not get to play. so I have a different perspective of things.
H HotCornerDad100+ posts
I agree with Coach May as many here have. Let the kids be kids and have fun at playing ball. Many players in the majors did not make it on their HS team until late, Jr. Sr. year.

Just because my kids play on teams that travel and play tournaments is not a guarantee that they will player any higher than that. Dream fine, but keep you feet on the ground. Let it be a kids game. I have so much fun watching pick up games and whiffle ball games. No parents just kids having fun.

Opening day today here is Corona California,sorry to you folks still stuck in the snow. My kids played more football then baseball today, but they all left the field with smiles so big they blinded Texas, Wink kidding :bigluaghA:
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
I believe I could write a book on how not to do it and how to do it. As many of you could as well. Travel ball or select ball or AAU USSSA whatever you want to call it was started for all the right reasons I believe. Somewhere at some time a group of well intentioned people got together and this is what they probaly said. Look are boys are not being pushed by playing with and against inferior competition. Its no different than the classroom. You have advanced and gifted classes right. You put kids in an environment that challenges them with other like minded kids in order to get the most out of them. Lets do this on the baseball field. And we can get a really good coach, someone with alot of experience that it up to the level of the players that we will have. We dont have rec players so we dont want rec coaches. We will travel around and play teams like ours. Coaches go out find the best players in their area and form the team. Here are the things that are good in my opinion.

1- Players get to play to their ability because they are playing with and practicing with players of their ability or better.
2- Players get to see where they truly stack up by playing the better players from other areas.
3- Players get challenged and learn to play at a higher level.
4- Players get better coaching and play against better coached teams.
5- Players learn to play in a tournement atmosphere where there is something on the line everytime they line it up.
6- Players get advanced fundementals and learn how to properly train for their sport at an earlier age which is a big plus.
7- Players do not learn poor fundementals in hitting and pitching and throwing at a young age in stead they learn the right way at a young age which allows them to advance in the game at a much faster pace. Also this gives them a better chance of making an impact in HS at a much earlier age at times.
8- Players are exposed to (learning to play at a level higher than alot of the competition that they will face down the road in HS) obvious advantage here.
9- Players get to see the big picture by playing outside their area. They do not get the big fish in the little pond syndrome.
10- Players get to play multiple posistions and learn multiple posistions because they are not the only stud ss for example.
11- Players can play without feeling like they have to carry the team because everyone on the team is capable of producing on the hill or at the plate etc.
12- Players get to play in big time environments for their age such as AAU championships or national championship tourneys. They are not overwhelmed by playoff games in HS because they have played in elimination situations many times.
13- Players are not intimidated by studs in the bullpen before games. They have faced studs every weekend for years and cant wait to show that they are up to the challenge.

Im sure that you guys can add some more. I have had guys in HS that the first time they play in a state playoff game they are in awe of the situation. They are nervous and have never played in a pressure packed situation before outside a local rec league championship game.
The first time they played anyone from outside their area was the first time they played a HS game. The benefits of playing this type of ball at a young age are huge. The benefits of having several young men on your HS team that have done it can not be overstated. I have 6 right now that are Sophs and Freshman. They are at a level right now that Juniors and Seniors in my program rarely reach. The downside has been mentioned. But if you can eliminate the negatives or at least cut them back the benefits far out weigh the negatives. Just my opinion.
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
Coach May:

Great summation. And a good travel situation will stand the test of time, which makes it even better. One that is fundamentally flawed will not. There must be a lot of give and take and understanding by all involved to make it work.

It is funny to have watched it evolve in AZ. For a long time, the best players after LL would move on as a team to Babe Ruth (this often consisted of most of the starting lineup from the LL all star team the previsous season plus a few others to fill in the gap.

Over time, more and more dads put together their own Babe Ruth teams to create similarly good opportunities for their own sons, and eventually Babe Ruth became dramatically watered down.

Now the very best teams tend to remain totally independent and are organized much like the very best 18 and under teams in the area, drawing their players from a broad area. With a few very notable exceptions, this path is nearly required to compete at the highest levels.
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
There are a couple of factors that make a huge difference in the outcome of a select team. First and foremost is the communications between the coach and the recruited player and his parents. Coaching and/or managing philosophies need to be discussed and agreed upon prior to the player joining the team. Many players still want to join the “elite” team with the understanding that they may not see much playing time. I have even seen parents "beg" a coach to allow their son to JUST be on the roster. I have talked to many parents and players that fall into that category and they accept this. I guess it is the start of the little fish in the big pond scenario that is very common in college. I think it starts way too soon but it's fairly common in the more elite teams even prior to the high school years. I personally don’t agree with this but is seems to be NO PROBLEM if everyone understands where their son fits in and what will happen on the front end. Problems arise when the parent has “rose colored glasses” when it comes to their son’s talent or the coach is not honest on the front end. My son played on select teams prior to high school and we saw many players sit on the bench or DH after the parents drove hundreds of miles and bore the expense of room and board for the tournaments. I personally wouldn’t do it...but many do.
Fungo
ConsultantConsultant10,000+ posts
Fungo;

Today the so called "Elite" travel teams have a problem. The quest for winning overshadows the need for teaching and development of the player to a team environment.

Since 1983 I have been involved with the high school players and Federations of America, Australia, China, Korea and Japan.

In 1987, when I created the Area Code games I also formed a travel team know as the Chicago Cubs [6 players have since played in the Major Leagues]. We played the famous Carson City Capitols and the Bayside Yankees in Carson City. Each player was selected by a professional scout for his tools.

All players participate daily and of course when necessary the platoon system was used for insuring playing time. Pitchers split games and we used wood bats against the metal bats. There is a fine line between development and winning. "If you teach properly, you will execute and win"

Two areas of measuring our hitters were formulated before "Moneyball"

1. "on base percentage"
2. RBI per time at bat.

Parents, coaches, please teach constant "self improvement". Players carry the "high tee" to
every practice and to the game.

Bob Williams
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
CONSULTANT

I respectfully disagree---you cannot use a broad brush when talking of "elite teams" --many work hard at having players develop while with them---learning to play on a team where your role is defined is part of development--- realizing that the players around you are at least as good if not better than you is part of development--- playing in a high tensity and highly competitive atmosphere is part of development --- being moved from the "big fish in a little pond" scenario is part of development --- being asked to give yourself up in certain game situations where you never did before is part of development

Finally not all "elite" teams are all about winning---many are all about refining and fine tuning the players game while playing at a high level of competition.


Just my thoughts
Last edited by TRhit
jemazjemaz1,000+ posts
It's really about having fun. Some of these kids will play baseball for a long time. Some won't. I agree with fungo and will say it is better to play on a weaker team than watch on a strong team, yet I have seen my own second son bide his time at a very, very strong high school far more than he would at 95 percent of other places. I doubt he would trade spots with anyone except perhaps with one of his friends who is in the lineup more often.

As I said, if it is fun and you feel a true part of it, then it is also great.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
TR is right and Fungo is right. I too have seen it done the right way and the wrong way. That does not mean that we throw it all out. Im not down on rec coaches or rec players at all. And there are kids they will never play select ball that will develop into fine players. And there are select players that will never play in HS. But I picked up the paper today and looked at the box scores. There were 10 games in the paper. I saw 9 of the 12 kids in the box scores that played on my 12u AAU team. Seven Sophs and two freshman. The other three ( are on JV teams and doing very well ). I think we did it the right way for the most part. But are we doing a kid an injustice when we dont allow him to take honors english in HS because he is struggling in english 101? No in my opinion we are doing the kids an injustice that are aceing english 101 and dont provide honors english. Just my opinion.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Great post I totally agree. When I first started going to AAU tourneys all the teams were very solid. After a couple of years I started to see alot of teams that were not prepared and or talented enough to play against the other teams. I often wondered as well why anyone would want to travel from one state to another or from one side of a state to another to get beat down.
ConsultantConsultant10,000+ posts
TR Hit, Fungo and Coach May;

Development is teaching the skills of the game. It is teaching a player
how to run faster", to gain arm strength, to hit behind the runner, to develop bat speed, to set up a pitcher and for the pitcher to set up a hitter.

I ask you all; "can you teach a player to read the bat"?

In 1985, our Santa Rosa Team enter the AAU Nationals in St Louis with 11 players.
We were fortunate to win this tournament. A few days later, we enter the CABA and was again the winner.

The purpose of this history lesson is to recognize the changes, since 1985 in youth baseball.

Ask the pro scouts; is anyone teaching the game and are the players enjoying baseball.

Recently, I discussed this situation with a Senior Vice President of a ML Team and our
conversation centered on two areas where scouts have the most difficulty in evaluating the individual.
1. the player's makeup.
2. the bat.

A travel team to be successful needs coaches who can teach, teach and teach.

BOB
S Southlakedad10+ posts
My son old team last year had an under 21 years old paid coach. Some dads gave him beer to drink and dine together during their happy hours. They went to hunting and fishing. They almost got DWI during one of the traffic stop. During the game time, those kids got a lot of playing time than my son and other kids. One dad relative was at that game. He almost got into a fight with that coach about the playing time. That coach got kicked out that game after he questioned some of the blue calls. My son team lost that game.

Next day, my son team was behind 9 runs after two innings. The coaches put my son in for pitching in the third inning. He pitched no hitters for two innings. That game was called lost later with the eight runs rule.

Afterward, that young coach told that my son was one of best player on his team.

After that weekend, that team was dissolved for good.

Southlakedad
S Southlakedad10+ posts
That was my son first travel team since rec balls. Since that team, he played two other selected teams last year. One of those teams, my son did not have a lot of playing time again. He learns a lot bad and good thing playing selected baseballs. He told me that he will never going back to rec balls again. Now, he has a very good selected team this year. He is playing three positions and has a lot of playing time so far. That team is going to Cooperstown this summer.

There are so many kids playing select teams in our area. If my son does not play select league, I do not think he can make it to his high school freshman team.

Southlakedad
Last edited by Southlakedad
N NRPMom100+ posts
Some of this sounds just like the conversation I had with the mother of an 8 year old boy I spoke to yesterday. She said her son was trying out for such an such team because if you didn't play on that team, you didn't make the high school team. He's 8 years old, takes private hitting lessons and is worried about high school. I explained to this woman that my son didn't play on that specific travel team, came from another state where he only played select ball starting at 13, played only 4-5 months out of the year and he made the high school team. My 11 year old practices 3-4 times a week and has said to me more than once, I like football better than baseball now or we have practice again? Travel or select ball is almost like playing college ball to some degree. Play all the time, travel out of state and write the big check. I wish it would settle down but I don't see that happening in the near future.
CallawayCallaway500+ posts
I was talking to some of the parents of the opposing AAU team that we scrimmaged yesterday. They are the "B" team of two teams from their area and are comprised of players that did not make the "A" team. Funny thing is that they actually beat the "A" team in two tournaments last season. Big Grin

They said that the "A" team lost 3 players and held tryouts to fill those spots a few weeks ago. The "coaches" were so impressed with some of the kids trying out, that they not only filled the 3 vacant slots but ended up booting 4 existing players from their team. Needless to say, some pretty upset parents!! IMO, pretty weak.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Calloway made me think of a situation I saw a few years ago. We were playing a tourney and one of our kids had a bad game. Happens to all of us. Well the opposing teams ss had a great game. Made some great plays in the field and had a couple of nice hits. Im walking to the parking lot (we still won the game) and I hear some of the dads talking to the dad of the ss from the other team. They are trying to get him to come play for us. Later that night these dads approach me in the Hotel lobby. They start telling me how we need to get that kid because he is the (missing link) for our team. Then they go on to tell me that we need to let our kid that was playing ss go because he almost cost us the game. This is what I told them. Why dont you guys go down to their room and tell them that. Tell them you are going to kick that kid off the team because he had a bad game. Tell them you are going to pick up a total stranger because he had a great game against us. And go ahead and tell your kids about it too. And then tell them that the same thing could happen to them if the 3b or 2b or cf for the other teams outplays them tomorrow. They did not say a word because by now Im pretty darn pissed. Well the next day one of the dads that was trying to pull off this deal his kid has the game from hell. Two or three errors and ks a couple of times. As we are leaving the park I walk by him and say "Maybe I need to go over to that team and see if their 1b is available. What do you think? He didnt have much else to say. These kind of attitudes make me sick. People want loyalty when they are struggling but want to throw a 12 year old kid to the wolves in a heartbeat. I have no desire to be around these jerks ever again in any capacity.
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
All these stories about travelling team politics makes me very glad that Oregon youth baseball up to the 14U level has generally stayed with the "league" model, where teams from different cities play against each other during league play, and then play a post season to determine a state champion.

Yes, it results in teams that have players of more variation in ability. Yes, it means that the competition is not quite what it would be if we assembled "select" teams to play against others in tournaments.

Our Junior Baseball league is right now in the process of arrnaging its teams. From the 65 or so boys registered in our 13-14 league we must choose the top 12 to play on the most advanced level, the next 24 for the second level, and so on.

But once the teams are set, they are set, and a player would be ineligible for post-season play if he was not on the team for at least half the league games.

It sure does prevent all the shameful shenanigans such as Coach May describes. Is it free of parent politics and hurt feelings over playing time? Of course not. But I'm guessing its a more positive environment for most of the kids.

And guess what? More than once our league team has played in non-leauge tournaments against one of these supposedly top-notch travelling teams and beat them.

There is no question that our 10th, 11th and 12th players have less ability. But we have minimum playing time and at-bat rules.

Because of this, I have seen marginal players develop into quite good ones since the rules gave them a chance to play, where if it was a strict meritocracy with no play time rules they would have had little chance, and probably would have gotten discouraged and quit.

I realize that many parts of the country have moved away from this model in favor of travelling teams. I still think it is the way to go, however, especially after reading all these parent horror stories.
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