Which is a good reason why I stopped posting on this 4 days ago. He doesn't want to hear why the kid balked or why things are called as they are. He wants to hear the umpire missed it and we should agree with him.
It is time to move on from this thread b/c it isn't about the game. It is about the umpires not calling things the way he wants them called. But, it is unfortunate when a rule is truly misapplied where judgment is not involved. But, oh well, life goes on.
quote:Originally posted by Harv:
Jimmy, don't think you get it.
Accepting "its a balk" is entirely different than "choosing one's battles".
For instance, new pitcher comes in 4th inning Saturday at start of new inning. Funky mound. After 5 pitches PH tells catcher to go to 2nd. Pitcher protests and says I need my 8. PH says you get 5 and any after that are going to be balls for first batter.
Kid called to me and I listened to what the problem was. I said lets just go with 5 and he gave up the game winning HR in his first inning pitching.
While most umpires I'd hope, have thick skin some, and I know this to be a fact, have thin and look to get ahead. The strike zone shrinks, you guys refuse to pull out a rule book and toss coaches that do. Well the simple fact is many just aren't that good.
I already talked about the "mouth to ball" called as a balk as opposed to a difacing the ball....ball to batter call. This isn't judgement, its the rules.
I've already talked about the fact that umpires don't police themselves, you guys don't serve as your own worst critics and the sport suffers because of this.
Christ, umpires took away a perfect game last year and the sport treats it a manifest destiny. This sort of power requires an extraordinary understanding of the responsibility involved in being an ump and many, especially at the HS level, just don't know the rules and the way the game is played, i.e. whats generally accepted.
So Jimmy, don't think coaches believe its a balk, they're probably not interested in going there, on a judgement call (which never get overturned despite all evidence to the contrary) when we all know it can cause nothing but pain unless its the last play of the game and the last time we'll see that particular ump.
The end result of this thread is teach your pitchers as you see fit, teach them where you think the limit is and accept the fact that sometimes he will do it right and sometimes he will miss and cause a balk. When you push the envelope sometimes you step over and it's a balk. If you want to avoid balks then back off teaching the limit and make his move slightly less effective. We aren't telling you to not to push the limit but just be surprised when they miss the limit occassionally. You teach your pitchers how to throw strikes and how to pick corners. Sometimes picking corners make misses and you get ball calls. It is no different with balks.
Now, the umpire not allowing a new pitcher eight warmups is wrong. Umpires do things wrong every day. We do not ever say it doesn't happen. If you read enough threads you will see umpires ask if they did something correct or how could they have done something better. We are tough on some guys for doing things wrong. The purpose of this board and others is to teach umpires and to enlighten coaches. It is not a place to defend umpires at all costs.
You can not by any stretch of the imagination believe we don't police ourselves. We train and train hard. MLB umpires get video of their games every night. They get evals constantly. They get fined and/or suspended if they step over certain lines. I personally have suspended umpires for not following proper procedures.
Finished watching the Evans video. How can anyone make an hour long video on balks, espoused to "be the standard" in other blogs on here and not have at least one example of LH pitching. No wonder umpires have no readily accepted standard for LH pitching.
Very disappointed. The one example of "feinting home....going to first" was a RH pitcher and he too fell on his kister.
Major hole in umpiring standards in my opinion.
Very disappointed. The one example of "feinting home....going to first" was a RH pitcher and he too fell on his kister.
Major hole in umpiring standards in my opinion.
A slight change in direction here. I realize this thread is many weeks old, and, probably doesn't rate much to anyone concerned. But, I couldn't help noticing comments obout video equipment being utilized and the 45 degree rule. I am compelled to comment.
1. FED rules PROHIBIT the use of video recording equipment during games. So why was the equipment there in the first place, coach?
2. 45 degree rule? No mention of it, in print, in any rule codes. It is merely a suggestive, visual, guideance principle, taught in pro umpire schools, to assist umpires in determining whether or not a pitcher has either stepped more toward home plate or more toward first base before deciding to rule on a balk. No such rule or provision exists.
1. FED rules PROHIBIT the use of video recording equipment during games. So why was the equipment there in the first place, coach?
2. 45 degree rule? No mention of it, in print, in any rule codes. It is merely a suggestive, visual, guideance principle, taught in pro umpire schools, to assist umpires in determining whether or not a pitcher has either stepped more toward home plate or more toward first base before deciding to rule on a balk. No such rule or provision exists.
The term 45 degrees is in both the FED Casebook and the NCAA rule book. You could look it up. 
You are incorrect that you can't use video during games. They video football every week, plus most basketball. What the rule says is you can't use video for coaching purposes during the game.
quote:Originally posted by Michael S. Taylor:
You are incorrect that you can't use video during games. They video football every week, plus most basketball. What the rule says is you can't use video for coaching purposes during the game.
Or officiating purposes. Or for coaches using it as a purpose to argue to officials about their purpose.
You don't know how many times I have had that argument with wrestling coaches.We do a regional and national wrestling tournament in our arena. We put 12 to 15 full HS mats in the bowl and ALL parents on the second floor. It is an individual tournament,not team, so each wrestler gets two coaches on the floor. No stills or video on the floor, second floor is fine. We do that so there is no arguments with refs about what they have on tape.
I had a coach who felt he got hosed, wanted to show us the tape. I told it made no difference because we can't use it to change it. He kept saying he was going to go get it. I told him it wasn't going to be looked at but he kept insisting. I told him if he brought it to me I was throwing it in the trash. He just didn't get the message so here he comes with the tape. I cut him off and read him the riot act. I finally got rid of him by telling him to take it home and some Sunday when he was having a great day, watch it and it will **** him off all over again.
I had a coach who felt he got hosed, wanted to show us the tape. I told it made no difference because we can't use it to change it. He kept saying he was going to go get it. I told him it wasn't going to be looked at but he kept insisting. I told him if he brought it to me I was throwing it in the trash. He just didn't get the message so here he comes with the tape. I cut him off and read him the riot act. I finally got rid of him by telling him to take it home and some Sunday when he was having a great day, watch it and it will **** him off all over again.