Like it was the World Series

Great post Infielddad!

RHP,
I can relate to the "what were we thinking".

Ever wonder why some of us whose sons played(especially the pitchers parents who wished they started later) past HS often put in our opinions?

Take a loooooong look at that card above, that's why.

Seems like yesterday that Eric was just off to college, it goes by so quickly.

Way to go!

Again, I love this site and the people on it. I have a 20 year old walking on at D1 this fall. An 18 year old who is highly recruited at SEC and ACC. And a 9 year old so I also see the take a chill pill it means nothing at this age. What got me started was the "7 year olds have no business pitching" and I could see the what were you thinking as a dad commments coming as they did 2 years ago when we were advertising for an 8 and under travelt team. And yes there were attacks on us as parents and the coaches and guys on here calling us idiots and all kinds of things.
I just feel that everyone has a choice as a parent and you can express your opinion without bashing the opinions of others. I also get frustrated with the guys who say that a 7,8, or 9 year old can't throw strikes. That guy just tells me he has not seen some of the upper level kids play. My son played the #1 team in 9U USSSA this summer and both teams had 3 pitchers who could throw strikes all day. I was glad there was only 1 curve ball thrown at the tournament that I saw.
I just did not want this guy to get blasted by the anti-pitching guys. There are some things I would have done differently too.

I certainly can't speak for others, but I'm surprised that in this day & age there is a league that offers kids that young a chance to pitch? I have to believe that many of the kids are six years old in the 7u division? Is this league affiliated with Little League, Pony, or a local non-affiliated League? Do they have inning and/or pitch count limits? It can be done, there are definitely some very talented little guys, I just hope that there are some rules in place to protect the kids. If they're playing the game...throwing strikes, catching the ball, hitting, and running to the correct base, then more power to them!

If I remember correctly, my son was playing Coach Pitch at this age. The kids would receive 2-3 pitches from me, and if they didn't hit off me, they hit off the tee. By the midpoint of the season the kids were hitting lazer shots off me...none of them wanted any part of the tee! I will say that the following year (8u) was a little more fun for my son and me, and it was probably due to the kids getting the opportunity to pitch! Honestly, even back then...I had a pitch count for the kids! The kids helped with a Mini-Pitch Count Chart (simple balls & strikes). It kept everyone in the game, they had fun with it, and I was able to do my best to protect arms!

honestly, can kids really even throw strikes at this age. 7?

Jeff,
No one called the OP an idiot.

Is travel ball for 8U idiotic? Yes, it can be, because many travel organizations don't follow the ASMI/USA guidelines for pitchers.

Does USSSA follow those guidelines for 9 year olds? If so then they are improving as I heard that in the past they were the worst and in some places still are.

Yes, 7,8,9 year olds can throw strikes, but that doesn't mean(lots of strong opinions on this), that they should be.

JMO.

I was never concerned with late summer 7U tournament pitching situations. When my kids were seven they played in a 7/8U machine pitch rec league that finished mid June. We passed on all-stars and travel. They didn't pick up a ball until the next March. The kids did other things for the rest of the summer. It didn't hamper their progress. One has already played college softball. The other will play college baseball.

RJM you brought up a good point, when son was young he played until June and that was it, until the following spring (which for us here was like Jan, Feb). No fall ball until later middle school years.
Although paying attention to pitch counts, rest time, innings, etc. while playing is important a long shut down period for young (very) players is highly recommended.
So if still playing in summer at 7-9, when does the next season begin?

I probably overstated the case about "pulling out every stop" to win that game.

I figure there are other big league and little league strategies that could have been used -- intentional walks, shuttling pitchers in and out of other positions for better match ups (ie, using your lesser pitchers to use up their pitches against the end of the order, and bringing back the better ones for the better hitters); using the weaker players in the field the absolute minimum amount of time and then courtesy-running for them immediately under Little League rules; declining universal batting, and so on.

The opposing coach did none of those things. He's not a bad guy, he wouldn't run up the score or not give a weaker guy a chance to pitch once in a while.

Still, the decision in the game that drew support from some of the posters to increase the chance of winning that game whil throwing away the championship, I think, is not sportsmanship. It contradicts some of the purpose of Little League which, it seems to me, is for each guy to do his best and mostly to learn how to play, and not necessarily to do whatever it takes with Tommy LaSorda type strategies to win ballgames or championships.

Some of the posters spoke about this event as part of a childhood experience, and others spoke about it in the context of professional play. A number referred to the kids preferring the snacks to the game. I disagree. I think kids remember if they have been snookered and that can make them cynical, which is something I'm trying to avoid. If he strikes out, that's one thing, he got beat. If his team lost because the opponent was willing to throw away any chance of a championship, even he saw that was like a race to the bottom.

I've always thought about baseball in the same context as his piano lessons, his chess tournaments and so on, ie, the purpose of participating is for him to learn how the world spins in different places based on the various natures of the events and the challenges presented by that nature. It is all a part of him learning to be mature and make good decisions when I'm not around or in case I croak.

He plays baseball (and chess) so he can learn to assess, judge, and act on his feet as unusual situations present themselves with little time to ponder.

He plays the piano (at my wife's insistence and over my objections) to learn to succeed with focus and to duplicate (rote learning material) on the way to creativity.

He is encouraged to do what he can succeed at so he won't get too discouraged about those things that he ultimately may not succeed at.

For him to get whipped in a ballgame by an adult who has overthought the problem, it seems to me, wasn't all that helpful to his development and not really good sportsmanship in context.

The boy is only 7 years for crying out loud---allow him to be 7 years old

I watched 12/13 year olds break into tears during yesterdays LL Playoffs--

Opposing coaches are not required to be informed of and support the systems of development you and your wife have chosen for your child.

He put his team in the best position to possibly win a championship by making it to the championship. Your coach decided that the championship was not important enough to get to the game. Neither owes the other or anyone else an apology.

And, to suppport TR's comment, the kids are only 7 for crying out loud. Life will continue.

You need to let this go. The other coach did absolutely nothing wrong. I shudder to think how you will react when you face some of the real baseball trials and tribulations that await your son down the road. Trust me, you ain't seen nothing yet.

quote:

I think kids remember if they have been snookered and that can make them cynical, which is something I'm trying to avoid.

Seven year olds will typically have a great time playing the game as long as there aren't parents overanalyzing the situation and telling them they're not having a good time. Then they hit the concession stand and the game is irrelevant as long as a parent doesn't make the game a negative conversation on the ride home.

Rod ... I'm going to share a story with you on a post game conversation with my son. It's to help you understand how kids think after a game.

He played in a U10 (nine years old) travel s0ccer championship game. They had finished the season in second. They upset the first place team for the championship (killed them 4-0). I was excited they won. Here's the postgame exchange with my son.

ME: That was great. What did the coach say after the game?

HIM: He said good game. What's for lunch?

ME: He must have said more than that.

HIM: He said we played well. May I have a Playstation for Christmas (it was December)?

I hope you learn from this exchange. It's not that he wasn't interested in the game. This is a kid who has always been highly competitive on the field. But when he was little as soon as the game was over, like most little kids it was time to move on. His attitude at that age had nothing to do with future success. In high school he's all-conference in two sports.

""I disagree. I think kids remember if they have been snookered and that can make them cynical, which is something I'm trying to avoid. If he strikes out, that's one thing, he got beat. If his team lost because the opponent was willing to throw away any chance of a championship, even he saw that was like a race to the bottom.""

What dont you get about the stategy the other team used? Everyone but you can see what the coach did was right and the way it should be done. You have to get to the championship before you can lose it. And the kids are not gonna remember being snookered or whatever. If they remember anything from this game it will be losing, nothing more. The only reason they would feel snookered is if you keep complaining about it. I bet they are done talking about this, while you keep posting on here.

""For him to get whipped in a ballgame by an adult who has overthought the problem, it seems to me, wasn't all that helpful to his development and not really good sportsmanship in context.""

They didnt get whipped by an adult, they lost to a better team that was more prepared and better coached. I think that will help his developement as a ballplayer far more than winning this meaningless game would have.

quote:

Still, the decision in the game that drew support from some of the posters to increase the chance of winning that game whil throwing away the championship, I think, is not sportsmanship.

I do not find it as bad sportmanship. In the tournament format of single elimination(any Age), you have to win the game you are playing or you do not even get a chance to win the championship. I have seen many games where a team did not throw their best availble, and got beat. To me they threw the game away, the coach did not do his all to win that game.