Listening?

Well, for starters, if you were a better listener... you wouldn't have started a thread like this

Seriously, I have gotten some pm's that have told me to put things where the sun don't shine so perhaps, I need to listen more and talk less

More seriously, I enjoy the commraderie the site has to offer. Hard to talk baseball with folks who don't have a player and/or are involved with players. I listen to just about everyone.

I've listened to both of you and you both give good advice.
I really believe that most people here come seeking advice and really do listen. There are a few here that come asking when it is too late, expect us to have the answers, but seem offended when it doesn't jive with their way of thinking, or what they want to hear. I always come away asking myself why did they ask in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I've listened to both of you and you both give good advice.
I really believe that most people here come seeking advice and really do listen. There are a few here that come asking when it is too late, expect us to have the answers, but seem offended when it doesn't jive with their way of thinking, or what they want to hear. I always come away asking myself why did they ask in the first place.

Good points.

How do we know that people aren't listening however? In person, body language confirms listening. In cyber-space, maybe we need an emoticon that shows we are in fact listening...

For the people who actually post they are not listening, like those who post lower-level credentials and complain when people don't affirm their higher-level aspirations.

Might be some cyber-trolls out there as well who like to appear as if they are not listening... i.e., stirring the pot.

CD,
I hear ya.
I don't get when people come and ask a question and never return to acknowledge the responses, are they listening?

A good beating always softens the ears...

The more beatings I take, the better I listen. It wasn't until lifes experiences handed me some lessons that I'd already been told about, that I learned how wizened those who had gone before me truly were.

The reason they won't let you be President until you're 35, is because life hasn't softened your ears enough until that point.

Good topic and I think it's going to generate a good discussion. Here's my advice

To be a good listener I think it takes a level of wisdom you don't normally have when younger. It's a natural part of growing up / finding out who you are - you want to prove your worthy in the eyes of those who are "superior". Well as we all know it usually ends in some humbling experiences. It's rare to find that teenager / young adult who has that natural ability to truly listen and come up with an outcome. It's either "I'll do it my by gosh and I'll show you" or "I'm a sheep and if you tell me to jump off a bridge, I will".

I have no idea if I'm a good listener or not but I do know I'm better at it than I was 20 years ago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago and 5 years ago. Over time I've messed up enough to realize I don't know it all but sometimes I don't realize that fact and I mess up. I have an ego (as we all do) that I want to be right and I want recognition that I'm right but I'm also humble enough to ask for help when I know I need it.

When I started coaching almost 20 years ago (man just typing that made me feel old) I knew then I didn't know enough and was open minded and listened. I went to every clinic, camp and speaker I could because I wanted to learn. Twenty years later I go to fewer clinics, camps and speakers but I feel that I'm more open minded (listener) than I was 20 years ago. The difference is I've discovered I can talk to other HS coaches that I know and learn just as much. I remember talking before a game one time with another head coach and we were discussion philosophy on how to turn a double play. I liked what he had to say and started trying it - I noticed the next year he was trying something I had my guys do during pregame on double plays. The credentials of who's talking does carry a lot of weight in whether to listen or not. People need to pick and choose who they ask or they will be flooded with information to select from and quite a bit of it will be useless probably.

I like what CD and TPM put about how some people come here and don't like the advice they get but I want to play a little devil's advocate with something. I'm not attacking you by no means but I know how I think and something that both of you said has me thinking.

When I give advice and it's not followed or they never come back to let us know how it went - I don't care. They asked my opinion, I gave it and if they want to listen then I hope it works out for them. If they don't then more power to them. It's a natural reaction to get ticked off when someone blatently blows you off but in the grand scheme of things - who cares. I know I don't always follow my own advice but I guess that's where I need to listen better.

I hope I'm someone people on here can read my post and trust that what I'm saying is good stuff but I can't truly control that. Because of that I just see it as out of my hands and try to let it go. I guess what I'm saying / asking - do you look for some kind of validation from people when you give advice? If yes then why is that?

Listening is an art. One that has to be learned and maintained. I for one have not always been a great listener on this page or in life, but I keep working at it.

Any time we enter a situation with a preconceived notion one's ability to listen is diminished. If we were ask to draw a tree most of us have a picture in our mind of that tree and that is what we draw no matter what the tree in front of us looks like. If we actually take the time to really see the tree we find that we gather a lot more info and the drawing will actually look like a tree.

I try very hard to look at each situation individually and learn what I can. I do much better when my mouth is shut and my mind is open.

I’ve lurked on this site for about four years, which not coincidentally closely tracks my son’s high school baseball playing years. I probably have posted less than half a dozen times.

Have I listened? You bet. Have I learned? Without question. Has it helped my son? Absolutely.

Without this site, I never would have even known about DIII programs. I never would have known how to have my son approach coaches for schools he was interested in. I never would have known what to put into a concise resume to college coaches. I never would have known how to create a short skills video to post on YouTube. I never would have saved several thousand dollars that I otherwise might have paid to a recruiting service to do what my son and I could do on our own. Perhaps most importantly, I never would have had constant reinforcement for my son that GRADES, GRADES, and GRADES (in that order) are critical for many college baseball opportunities.

The end result: My son is just starting his senior year as a 3 year varsity starter. He’s good, but he doesn’t have pro skills. Maybe he could play at a mid to lower level D1, but he knows in the end he’s going to school to get his degree and a career in the real working world. So he has busted his tail to earn a 4.5 GPA while playing ball, posted some very solid test scores, and now has several outstanding DIII schools actively recruiting him. He’s not sure which offer to take, or whether in the end he will even take a baseball offer, but I can say with 100% certainty that he wouldn’t have been in this position without having the benefit of the sage advice from this board.

So is anybody listening? Yes. And thank you.

D.B.Cooper,

Great post.Best of luck to you son.

It is probably extremely rare for anyone who takes a position on a subject to change their mind. On the other hand it gives the people who haven't made up their mind information they can use to make decisions.

Usually the only time I change my mind is when I'm doing research to prove my point and find out from the research that I was wrong.

Then again there's the times I disagree with my wife. Then I'm wrong by definition.

The other thing we should remember is that many times no matter how passionate we are about a topic we are only stating opinions.

I must have listened at some point because I find myself giving the same advice I got a few years back, including some that I ignored at the time.

This interesting post has spurred some self reflection...

Most of the coaches I've had in the past have probably found me difficult to coach if not downright "uncoachable" because I don't really listen.

When a coach, online poster, teammate, etc. gives me advice, I hear it, and I decide if it makes sense or not. I make that decision based on logic, my playing experience, and watching how big leagers play. Some coaches totally clash with those three "instincts." I've met one or two that routinely get by those "tests" and truely get through to me.

For example, if the coaches tips on turning the double play don't conform to the mechanics big leaguers use to turn a dp, then I err on the side of the big leaguers and don't "listen" to the coach. I might go through some drills to appease, but I truely never really buy in.

I don't think this is a bad thing (obviously i don't or else I would change). A lot of times I find myself questioning if some coaches have ever seen a big leaguer hit with some of the advice that is given out. When I question them about it, I usually get an answer something like "those guys are freakishly strong so they get away with it." I'm sorry I just don't buy that. Big league players' livelihoods depend on their performance. They improve their performance by perfecting their mechanics. They make money based on how good their mechanics are, and thats why I trust my eyes more than any words that come out of a coaches mouth.

I truely listen to coaches' evaluations. I always take that to heart because it is very hard to be objective about one's own performance. And it is always helpful for someone to tell you what kind of mechanics you are executing at the plate and in the field because what you feel like you do and what you actually do can be two different things.

CPLZ pretty much posted how I feel about this topic. There is an old saying "Learn from others mistakes so you don't have to learn from your own." It sounds really good but the fact is I have had to learn from my own way more often than I have learned from others. And sometimes I have had to be taught the same lesson twice because I was too thick headed to learn the first time.

I have learned to listen. I have learned that you can learn so much from other people. And you can spare yourself some head aches along the way if you just take the time to listen. And even more importantly if you just watch and pay attention you will learn as well.

When I came to this site I was more intent on giving my take on things. Giving my advice on baseball topics. Over the years I have learned to listen way more and learn from other peoples experiences. Even though I post a lot here I read a whole lot more than I ever post. That was not the case when I first came on this site and it was not the case earlier in my life.

I spend a bunch of time just talking to players that I coach. Each day I am with them I take the time to give them life lessons and try to use the game to teach them. Most of the time I use myself as an example of what not to do rather than what to do. Don't lose focus of what is really important because this window of opportunity is very short. What you do in these four years will have a tremendous impact on what you are capable of doing the rest of your life. Make good decisions and listen to those that have gone before you. Like a lot of kids I was too busy sailing my own ship and I ended up on the rocks or off course many times. It took me realizing that I needed some captains on that ship to help guide me along the way and I needed to listen and trust those that truly cared about me.

The sad thing is many people do not listen until its too late to do anything about it. The baseball window is short. How many times have I had a former player walk up to practice or walk up to me after a game and say "Coach I sure wish I had listened to you." Too many to count and very sad. And it was rarely about the baseball that I helped teach them. It was almost always about the lessons for life that I tried to instill.

For players "listen" and learn from others. Learn what not to do. Learn what to do. You will find a time when those people you thought had no clue , knew exactly what they were talking about. Trust me I had to learn the same lesson.

For the parents "listen" and learn from others. Learn what not to do. Learn what to do. Listen to those that are humble about their sons careers in the game. Listen to those that speak about the experiences in the game that they have gone through with their kid and their kid has gone through. And keep an open mind.

I can tell you time changes your perspective on some things. And experiences will change your beliefs about things. What was set in stone at one point and time may be totally different down the road. Keep and open mind and be willing to listen to others. And I am speaking to myself as well in this post.

I agree with many of the posts above about how our failures or negative experiences help us become better listeners.

As far as this website goes I think it is the parents of the younger players (10-14 yo) who have trouble sometimes listening to advice given here and applying it to their child's baseball.

At the younger ages many kids sail through LL with alot of success and are the toast of the town, so to speak. Best pitcher and best hitter in LL means the kid is headed to the majors and dad must a dam n good coach who knows whats best for his kid. It's hard to see things changing anytime soon. Few of us, at this time in our kids baseball path, realize how much things change once puberty enters the picture. So we read things here and say, 'there not talking about my kid, he's different'.
But we all know, and most of us have experienced that things change drastically and failures come more often as the player's baseball world expands, and he faces bigger, stronger, faster and better players.

Once we eat a little humble pie maybe our ears, eyes and minds open and we actually listen to what is written here, and apply the tremendous advice that is generously given from parents who have been there before us. Not to mention the advice given by coaches and other baseball lifers who could have a say in the players future.

So as our players get older this website becomes more valuable and hopefully we become better listeners.

Nice posts in this thread...

Coach2709 - Just to be clear... it does not affect me at all if people listen to me or not... I am just like you and thus, proof that I "listened" to you!

That said, maybe this question can be answered in reverse...

Why exactly do people post? Is it so people will listen to them? or Is it to put communications out there so they can "listen" to feedback from others? e.g., does anyone else think like me, am I alone in my feelings, reassurances there are other kindred souls, etc... Kind of a philosophical question like if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it...

If nobody hears the tree fall how does anyone know it fell?

quote:

If nobody hears the tree fall how does anyone know it fell?

As "Coach" on Cheers once said something like, 'Maybe some beavers gnawed on it and let it down gently?'

So you're right (I guess)...maybe it didn't fall.

I have spent countless hours here, and post occasionally for insight..without the help of all of you, I would not have known the options available, and all that is truly involved with my son wanting to play at the next level.
When he came to us, and said I want to play baseball all year, we had no clue that you actually could play all year.. way harder to do here in the north.( I wish he asked Freshman year rather than Junior year.)

Thanks to all of you so willing to share your experiences, it is appreciated as we try to enjoy the ride. I will do my best to be as humble as my son and keep my mouth shut, and ears open.

Signed,
A Listener.....

I always had the feeling in my coaching (not baseball) that the true listening came from the people that I wasn't really aiming at. For instance, if you admonished people for not being sufficiently dedicated, your most dedicated boys would be most likely to think you were speaking to them, and your least dedicated would think you were speaking to someone else.

I think similar things happen on these boards, as fillsfan notes above.

I've always thought the biggest problem in getting people to "listen" was in getting them to believe that they were going to be successful at a worthwhile level. That's directed towards those who are not working steadily enough at their craft.

That's a little different than the "not listening" that is reflected in disagreements on specific techniques or methods among those who are all working diligently.

quote:

I don't get when people come and ask a question and never return to acknowledge the responses, are they listening?

I've seen this here and other boards. I believe these are people looking for validation on their already made decision. When they don't see what they need to validate their position they disappear.

What was the question? I'm sorry, I wasn't listening....

Does this have anything to do with "headgear for pitchers"? Sure seems like it.

My son has chosen to implement (at least) four very specific pieces of advice since I've been coming to this forum, and he's just a HS sophomore. I have other information in the memory bank which will come into play later, and still looking for more. And there are a few things I've passed along to him which he has chosen to disregard, at least to this point.

I really enjoy learning from others. I hope some day I have a couple of things to pass along to those coming behind my son.

I read and listen in the general forum a lot more than I post but when I see mean spirited debates (as opposed to civil debates) it makes me shy away from the general forum. There is a way to disagree or debate without getting personal but too often I see it get personal. It is uncomfortable to read and is uninviting. I have read enough posts to know that most of the big time contributors here are extremely knowledgeable and I really like listening to them but some days I just have to walk away...

I think we end up losing good listeners and miss an opportunity to pass on great wisdom when those imparting the wisdom become uncivil.

I may get criticized for this post but just stating my observation and opinion.

Disclaimer: These comments are not directed at or to any specific poster, just a general observation.

Posts only get personal when someone reading them wants to take them personal

What ever happened to a spirited debate???

I only use the term "mean spirited " when I talk about horses

quote:

"mean spirited"

Grain alcohol or moonshine