Little League World Series..yuck

I love baseball. I can't stand LL. I don't believe LL is represenative of youth baseball, anymore. Try catching some of the Cal Ripken games. Much better.

hokieone:

In order to diminish your distress over such occurences...do what we have done...we've never purchased cable and/or satellite TV.

Life is simple for the intentionally uninformed.

But from this simple mind comes a simple question...this "Podunk" that you speak of... in which state, province, territory, or otherwise does it exist?

The intentionally uninformed are just curious at times!

Podunk--a small town in the western suburbs of Chicago.

My beef is the size of the field. Ripken has addressed this with that organization. Next year, the 11/12's will be playing 50/70, as well they should. 46/60 is just too small a field, especially with the new age groupings, when many of the players turn 13 between May and August.

Speaking of Cal Ripken… Check out what he is doing in Myrtle Beach, SC.

http://www.theripkenexperience.com/default.asp

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/multimedia/myrtlebeach...mm/ripken/index.html

Looks like a great venue.

You think LL is hard on the pitchers? I was listening to the PONY WS (14yo) and one team started the same pitcher on Sunday, complete game, Tuesday, complete game, and Thursday, knocked out after 2 1/3. My guess is that he threw about 250 pitches, 80,100 and 70. The sad part was that they had to beat the same team on Thurday and Friday to advance to a Saturday championship game and it was obvious they were throwing the kid on Thursday so that they could use him again on Saturday if they got the chance. By the way, the kid threw about 60 to 70% curves.

The team was from Washington, PA the headquarters for PONY baseball and got in as the host team. The radio announcers were lavish in their praise for throwing the kid this much.

Simi Valley had a pretty good shot at winning the PONY WS but in the championship game they started the 15yo son of a long time board member instead of starting the kid who won the 2004 LLWS US championship. The 15yo pitched reasonably well but gave up 4 runs in 3 innings. The LLWS kid came in after 3 innings with the score 4-0 Puerto Rico and shut down Puerto Rico for 3 innings on 1 hit. If the LLWS kid hadn't pitched at all I would have figured there was a sore arm issue.

hokieone ...

Love your take on the crooked hat ... I think the kid has read too many stories about how lefties can't put there hats on straight and he is just mimicing what he thinks he is supposed to do.

But after just watching them beat the Western team (from Arizona), I was a bit taken aback by the lack of emotion on his face at the end of the game. He came off the mound, with his teammates trying to congratulate him, without a smile at all ... and when coach tried to hug him, he just shrugged him off. And now during his post-win interview, with a grin on his face, he says he wasn't focused enough on the mitt yada yada yada and that his curve ball wasn't working. What the heck is with that? If he throws a great fast ball ... which he must because the broadcasters said it over and over through out the entire game ... why isn't he just challenging those kids with a good fast ball and a change up? Arghhhhhhhh ... the curve ball was just not on our team's menu of pitches for our son's team when he played in the LLWS in 1995.

no-e2 ...

I understand what you are saying about Little League and your feeling that it is not reflective of youth baseball but I respectfully disagree with you. It is definitely not representative of the programs that have been known for more talent and better athletes ... some of which have been severely diluted over the years because everybody thinks their kid is the next Cal Ripken ... but it is representative of a great number of youth baseball programs around the country and around the world. (I don't have the numbers but I would suspect that it (Little League) represents the majority of youth baseball programs in the country. Perhaps someone else has the numbers.)

I too dislike much of the commercialization of the tournament over the past decade or so, especially when the broadcasters select their media darlings and give them so much hype ... sometimes before they even prove themselves. I suspect one of the reasons the LLWS is enjoyed by so many, tho, is because it represents the 'average' kid out there, the kid whose dream has been to play in the LLWS though he may never go further in his baseball career. For our son's team, several of his teammates stopped playing baseball the following year, and by high school less than half the team were still playing. And now ... there are 2 who still wear cleats and gloves everyday.

Granted, LL is NOT the best baseball out there but it is something that many kids do and if nothing else, it gives them something to dream about and let's kids who are good but not the best have a goal.

And I have to tell you that it is a great experience for the kids and the parents ... something that will remain a wonderful memory for many years to come. Add to that the hometown support, the hometown press coverage, etc., and they are memories to cherish.

Interesting comments aboout LL and the LL world series. I was a Little league President and our team went to the LL world series in 2000 and won the National championship part of it. Comment regarding the size of the players. My son at 5'6 as a 12 yr. old faced a boy from Iowa I beleive that was 6'2 210. However this year because of the change of the birthday cut off you see a number of 13 yr. olds facing some 11 yr. olds. Completely out of wack.

We came in and our pitchers in 2000 threw a number of curve balls but not at the rate that the players today are throwing. Interesting comments about the players that will be playing in two or three years. Of the 12 players that went to the LL world series on our team there are 4 pitchers and 1 catcher (was not a catcher at the LLWS) that are moving on to play college ball.

I know that our children played in excess of 24 games in 4 different places before we got to Williamsport. Our children were exhauseted before we played the first game at the world series and some had little emotion left after a game. So to support the young man that walked off the field with no emotions I understand that however I am at a loss over the hat.

Little league was all we knew to play when my children started playing baseball and baseball has changed so much since 2000. I have to say I would not give up the experience that my son had. As a result of playing that summer sometimes in front of excess of 40,000 and Internationa tv he gained a confidnce that my husband and I see everyday both on andoff the filed. He can speak to adults as well as people his own age. He has great communication skills and can speak in front of a crowd. He can also empathise with the players on the filed this wek that just want to play ball and get back home to their friends. No cameras necessary

quote:

Originally posted by allaboutbaseball:
As a result of playing that summer sometimes in front of excess of 40,000 and Internationa tv he gained a confidnce that my husband and I see everyday both on andoff the filed. He can speak to adults as well as people his own age. He has great communication skills and can speak in front of a crowd...

Perhaps you should give yourself more credit than LL or the TV. Most likely it is your son's parents that have cultivated those skills. Congratulations!

justbaseball......thanks. I needed that. Dropping my son off on hursday to start his college days so kind words are eally appreciated!

I have watched a lot of the LLWS games and I have a couple of questions...does anyone know if the fences have been moved back? Or what a LL pitch would look like at the MLB level?

I haven't heard anything.

They often translate the kids' pitches to MLB mph as far as reaction time. Although the 'may not know where it's going' factor could make the LL pitches more difficult .

Apparently they dd move the fences back this year. I've only watched a part of two games, but they had a graphic up last night about the drop in hrs....and comments about the increase in Texas Leaguers!

They moved the fences to 225' from 205' I believe.

The fact that the ball is going much faster as it approaches the hitter makes a 90+ fastball thrown from a 60'6" mound much harder to hit than the reaction time equivalent 70 mph fastball thrown from a 46' mound. The ball also moves more at the greater distance due to more spin even though the time of flight is the same for the reaction time equivalent pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by hokieone:
I've watched a few games and am greatly disappointed:

-Is there a coach that will tell the stud from Georgia to put his hat on straight, shut up, and pitch?

Ditto

The one thing that LL is. And will remain.
A local Community Team. You must live in that District to be considered for there All-Star team of 11-12yr old's.

Not to be mistakin for a select Team of 12 yr old's.

But that's what's great about it, You truly have earned the right to represent your AREA. And that's what's cool about it. EH

theEH ...

quote:

You truly have earned the right to represent your AREA. And that's what's cool about it.

And that is the joy of it ... amazing how communities come together to follow their guys, hitting the pizza places during game time etc. Pure joy.

Orlando and CA Dad, sorry it's hard to get sarcasm across in this forum. The announcers mention the fences every 30 seconds when I watch!

Now, to EH, you might be surprised that some of these teams are nice little neighborhood teams. Lemont, IL is NOT a normal Little League team. They were able to find a loophole in the LL rules so they could play a full travel season and still be a LL team. I think they're used to playing "real" baseball all year.

I'm not calling them cheaters. I'm suggesting LL has some rules that don't exactly let your local neighborhood teams have much of a chance to get on TV.

Don't kid yourself. Many of the American teams are travel teams made up of kids from the local little league. It seems that I remember it was either last year, or the year before; they were talking about a California team that had been playing together for years preparing for the LL World Series. Part of the story was how well that team did so others were following their model.

And that's fine if that's what the rules allow, but it is a bit deceiving to the general public that each of these teams is a cute little group from Podunk, USA.

If they have that much talent, I'd rather they play real baseball.

Real baseball.....

250' fences
70' bases
lead off's
balk's
dropped 3rd strike's

everything that LL is NOT!

According to the paper today, the Lemont coach said something to the kid with the hat and the other coach did not appreciate it.

Get rid of the microphones.

I agree Bigger.....What's the point of playing on a small diamond if they have played together on a travel ball team for so long...That's like the equivalant of a junior high AAU basketball team opting to play in a tournament with 8' baskets. If they are that good, play up not down...play the game as it was meant to be played with lead-offs, pick-offs, 54' pitching and 70' basepads...the more appropriate distance given the new age rules. My son grew 2 inches and 15 lbs. between the ages of 12 and 13...he was a pitcher at that time...It would have been unfair for him to go back and pitch from LL distances...yet that's what we are seeing this year.

Last time I checked these players are not allowed to affiliate with any other leagues.

Which is why travel teams would dominate any of these teams.

QUIZ........how many players played in the Little League World Series and also in the Major League World Series?

If you get that quiz, you can try and answer this one......who is the ONLY PLayer to have been on a Little League World series winner, a college world series winner and a major league world series winner?

The winner gets a free burger and fries.

Tom Seaver

Next guess - Ed Vosberg

No they aren't your community teams unless your community has a population of 70,000 or so as Conejo Valley did a couple years ago. They got caught trying to find a loophole and then were allowed to go ahead and field their team. The year after they went to the LLWS the split league that had been ordered by LL a couple years previously was finally enforced. The team now drawing from the largest population pool in the district has won district and section each of the last two years. Big surprise.

On the other hand, the Conejo kids played on a couple different travel teams and didn't play together full time until LL all-stars. That team when they played together was better than all but the very best travel teams in their age group. Even without a few of the better players they were fairly highly ranked in USSSA in SoCal.

4 of those kids played for Simi Valley and made it to the championship game of the PONY WS this year. Whatever shennanigans the league pulled those were still some very talented kids.

According to the LLWS media guide the "only" player to play in all three was Jason Varitek and Ed Vosberg. You probably got the question from something that was published before Varitek played in the WS.

7 other players played in both the LLWS and the World Series.

Mets fans are hoping Lastings Milledge will join this select group in a couple months.

Ed Vosberg was the only guy to play on all 3 "winning" teams. Ata boy Paul. Cadad, Varitek plaed in all 3 but was not a winner in all 3, only Vosberg.....U of Arizona and the Marlins.

My bad. Didn't read it closely enough.

The Lemont team is decidedly not a "Little League team" from Lemont, IL. It is the Homer Heat, a locally high-profile travel program whose coaching staff studied and adapted to the rules to allow their travel team that has been together 4 years or so to try to reach the LLWS. While they did spread out their players onto different Lemont LL teams during the LL season, played just over the minimum games to be eligible, when it came to "selections" by an "unbiased" (right...) outsider, lo and behold, all but I believe 1 or 2 players on the LLWS team were Homer Heat players. In fact, to my knowledge, none of the Homer Heat players lives in Lemont; they live in Homer Glen. And I would not be surprised at all to learn that they competed at the 13 or 14-yr old level outside LL at tournaments around the country on weekends. Surprised? Shouldn't be, Homer did the same thing back in 2000 with their 14 year old travel team that made it to the PONY WS through the same PONY North Zone as our little old Minooka PONY team All Stars (all 12 of them...) went to. The Homer Heat "PONY" team came into the PONY Zone with a ridiculous record of 70-2 or something like that, while our Minooka team was 14-0! The Homer coaches and parents must be starved for adulation and vicarious attention, I would say. Yes, they'll say they stayed within the letter of the law, but I think they were way outside the spirit of LL Baseball. Sadly, though, I'll wager that the situation is similar with the other finalists, perhaps not as blatant.

Plus, If I hear another word about "5-tool" 12 year olds, I think I'll projectile vomit...IMHO the "adults" have ruined the LLWS, too.

TARatko,
Someday a legit team will win it. Problem is we'll never know.

Welcome to the big nasty world is what I think when I watch these games.

The televising of these games means that parents are going to do whatever they can to get their kids in them. The Lemont team is an example, but that's been going on a while in LL and in Cal Ripken. When my son played in the Cal Ripken WS 5 years ago, his team played a team from New Orleans. That team had VELCRO for their patches, and we saw some of them getting ready for their first game against my son's team taking off their non-Cal Ripken patches and putting on the "right" ones. Yeah, like this was REALLY a team from the same little area. My son's team was accused of being like that, but every kid on that team could walk or ride his bike to his league's fields.

Oh, and in your Paul Harvey "rest of the story". . . .my son's team won the Cal Ripken WS that year

However, fast forward to 2004. Our neighbor's son was playing in the Cal Ripken 10 year old WS. Again, a team of kids "from the neighborhood" picked by a non-rigged vote from coaches in our local league AFTER the season. They lost in the championship game to a team from Florida that had played 60 games together before going to the Cal Ripken WS. Sigh.

LL should be just about done. Between the cheating, the cocky attitudes, the stupid %$& announcers, the tiny field and genetic mutants. What's left? Oh Yea, bad lanquage, questionable coaching.

quote:

Oh Yea, bad lanquage, questionable coaching.

Don't you mean questionable language and bad coaching, hmm??

no-e2 ...

quote:

genetic mutants.

Well now, this has been an interesting thread but no need to be so derogatory towards a kid who has no control over his physical characteristics. Criticize the coaching and rule stretching/breaking all you want ... but please leave the kids and their physical appearances out of the discussion. That is just plain bush.

I found myself cheering against the Lemont coach because of several of the comments he made during the regional and the world series ... especially when he told his players (darn those microphones) during their last game that they had played against better teams than the one they were playing. That may well have been true but these guys know they have the mikes on so they should learn to control their mouths. Also, for a dominating as they were supposed to be, I wondered if they really thought they could win the semi-final with no hits ...

Having had the experience of the LLWS with our son, and watching 14 kids who had competed with and against each other since they were 7 come together and have a great all star experience, I am saddened that the series has turned into the charade it seems to be. Used to be it was the international teams that were suspect ... now it is the American teams as well. INHO it is a sad commentary on our society and the emphasis that is placed on the product and not the process.

I don't usually go back and revisit posts but it seems my wording and possibly intent was called into question.

Let me say I apologize MoM for the wording genetic mutants. I can asure you I was not speaking of one player. Hence the "s" indicating the plural. I was addressing the overall growth patterns of kids today as compared to when I was young. I see a lot of them in my area. It was a general statement not a directed statement. End of discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
You think LL is hard on the pitchers? I was listening to the PONY WS (14yo) and one team started the same pitcher on Sunday, complete game, Tuesday, complete game, and Thursday, knocked out after 2 1/3. My guess is that he threw about 250 pitches, 80,100 and 70.

Anybody know what PONY is an abbreviation for?

Google it.

It's incredibly ironic given the above situation.