LL Baseball front-page story in Collegiate Baseball

The original poster had an agenda he would not let go of in that thread and a couple of others. He was out to bash LL. I'm not going into the details. But if you look at Legion versus LL they are structured differently. LL is a much larger worldwide program to promote getting little kids into baseball. LL often brings baseball to places around the world who could not afford a program without money from Williamsport. Legion isn't a world wide program or a girl's program. Also due to dealing with little kids LL spends a lot of time on researching safety issues.

Very often the people who write these articles (Legion v. LL) haven't done their homework very well. Who cares who makes what as long as it for the benefit of the kids? LL is a non profit. The money goes back into the program.

I was a little put off by the OP's coyness, and strongly disagreed with the argument about whether those people were overpaid.

But none of that is more offensive than closing the thread merely because YOU found a poster to be uninformed or misled. If LL baseball is a good thing (and I'm sure it is), then it'll survive the scrutiny of open public debate without YOUR oversight.

I don't think any of the language or debate in this threat was beneath the standard allowed in other threads.

I hope the YOU and YOUR isn't directed at me for explaining why a moderator closed the thread. It wasn't just that thread. The original poster opened three threads on the issue. I'm not rereading the closed thread referenced. I remember one of them being a relentless attack on LL rather than a debate.

RJM - I was actually directing it at you, but that clearly was my error since you didn't personally close it for the reasons you suggested. I should have read your post without making that assumption.

Hopefully the person who closed it really had a more appropriate reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

Do you know HOW many Full-time folks are American Legion Baseball? 1 and 1/2 ... Yes ... 1.5 Full-time Employees. Mr. Jim Quinlan and a PT secretary.

How 'bout that, amazing!

So where does all the money from Legion dues go and how much does the one full time Employee make?

Maybe if Legion Baseball had more of a professional structure, they would get back to be more of a force in high school summer baseball....

quote:

Originally posted by wraggArm:

Hopefully the person who closed it really had a more appropriate reason.

Wragg, you can be rest assured of one thing. Whatever HSBBW Moderator closed it, they did in FACT have an appropriate reason I'm sure. I don't know of one trigger-happy Moderator on here.

quote:

Originally posted by Homerun04:

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

Do you know HOW many Full-time folks are American Legion Baseball? 1 and 1/2 ... Yes ... 1.5 Full-time Employees. Mr. Jim Quinlan and a PT secretary.

How 'bout that, amazing!

So where does all the money for Legion dues go and how much does the one full time Employee make?

Maybe if Legion Baseball had more of a professional structure, they would get back to be more of a force in high school summer baseball....

Legion is dying in my area. Anyone with aspiration to play at least high level D3 is playing showcase ball. At a game I asked a sportswriter assigned to the game how many 82+ fastballs he sees. His response was not many.

Personally as we head into 2010 I would hope that the "tyranny of dictatorship", removing threads, editing peoples posts, and dictating to people what they can or cannot say ceases on the site---it would be great to return to good old days of "heated" debate--no name calling -- just solid debate as adults expressed their opinions--

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:

quote:

Originally posted by wraggArm:

Hopefully the person who closed it really had a more appropriate reason.

Wragg, you can be rest assured of one thing. Whatever HSBBW Moderator closed it, they did in FACT have an appropriate reason I'm sure. I don't know of one trigger-happy Moderator on here.

You're right YoungGun, but an explanation usually proceeded the other closures. Just nice to have it.

I'm usually the last one to defend Williamsport. But to compare LL to Legion is truly apples to oranges.

LL is run largely by parents with young children. That kind of organization needs strong central management. It's alao an international organization dealing with several different nations is no small feat.

Legion features much more mature players with coaches who are almost never parents. Management is taken on by each Post and by the district structures. There really is no need for a national organization beyond occasional revision of the rule book and coordinating the national tourney.

Also, there must be dozens of Little Leaguers for every Legion player in any given year.

I do think LL is over managed and that Williamsport would do well by its organization if it loosened its grip quite a few notches. There are way too many "rules for the sake of rules", rules that make no common sense but that serve primarily to annoy. But I can see why it would need a much larger super structure to run itself.

Midlo


I like you am not a LL fan--nor am I a Legion fan---but I get tired of people taking potshots at either organiztion with no resson and they are usually the parents who do not assist in any manner shape or form

Unlike many here I am a LL and Legion fan and could care less what or how the organizations spend their money. We have 700 kids between our local LL and 6 Babe Ruth/Legion teams who compete at various levels and ages. Contrary to the belief of many, 95% of these kids will not go on to play college baseball. They will however make friends, learn teamwork skills, exercise, have fun, and be part of the finest game in America. If any one here who dislikes LL/Legion can find a cheaper form of social entertainment, I'm all ears.

I'm all ears too!

As a former LL President, I really could care less how they spend there money. They are very affordably
priced for a family to play baseball. My sons cost
170$ for both to play last spring. My 8 y/o played 18 games with a uniform for 85$ My 12 y/o played
25 regular season games, 3 TOC games and 7 allstar games.35 games and two uniforms for 85$
My 12 y/o then played travelball July until November
2 complete uniforms and 65 games for 700$.
Now I know not every family can afford that much on
baseball especially now, but there are familys that
cannot even afford 85$ and our LL never turns players away over money. Just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:

Wragg, you can be rest assured of one thing. Whatever HSBBW Moderator closed it, they did in FACT have an appropriate reason I'm sure. I don't know of one trigger-happy Moderator on here.

Don't worry, buddy...my rest was already "assured", and not in any jeopardy of being lost over one of your closed threads. But if RJM's explanation of why this thread was closed is accurate, I'd say "trigger-happy" is an excellent choice of words.

I was taken aback with the big money that LL brings in. If I remember during the WS games, they state how it's all volunteer, but that is somewhat misleading, is it not based on the article in Collegiate Baseball?

As for a former player and coach in American Legion Baseball, it can be stated, that ALB is truly the only baseball organization that is nearly 100% volunteer.

If I recall correctly, there is NO player fee mandated from National Headquarters for players to play. If I understand correctly, it's FREE to play based on information from National Headquarters but an individual team can charge a fee based on the amount of support they get from their respective legion post.

ALB is making an epic leap forward this year folks! Look for ALB to start getting more coaches and players back that have ventured off to other venues.

This Buddy? He was one of my favorites!

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:
Unlike many here I am a LL and Legion fan and could care less what or how the organizations spend their money. We have 700 kids between our local LL and 6 Babe Ruth/Legion teams who compete at various levels and ages. Contrary to the belief of many, 95% of these kids will not go on to play college baseball. They will however make friends, learn teamwork skills, exercise, have fun, and be part of the finest game in America. If any one here who dislikes LL/Legion can find a cheaper form of social entertainment, I'm all ears.

If I understand correctly, ALB is 100% free from the Nat'l headquarters perspective to play. An individual team can charge a fee at their own discretion.

ALB, by far the best bang for your buck!

It's FREE to play as a player.

From my perspective ... ALB is truly the only nearly 100% volunteer baseball organization in the WORLD!

quote:

it's FREE to play based on information from National Headquarters but an individual team can charge a fee based on the amount of support they get from their respective legion post.

There isn't a Legion post in sight in our area. It's $300 for 21 Legion games or 17 Junior Legion games plus whatever possible playoff games, for the program my son would be eligible to play. The team doesn't have a sponsor. From 13U to 16U travel it was $500 for about fifty games.

LL was $75 for what turned out to be 32 games when he was eleven and twelve.

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
This Buddy? He was one of my favorites!

I thought he was speaking of Buddy Sorrell aka Morey Amsterdam from the Dick Van Dykke show


I'm sure some posters are saying "who are those old guys?"

quote:

who are those old guys?"

One was a great dancer. One was a great cellist. One was supposed to be the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz. One worked for Al Capone.

"ALB is making an epic leap forward this year folks! Look for ALB to start getting more coaches and players back that have ventured off to other venues"
How so. What is Legion planning to do that makes you say this. By the way I love both LL and Legion. Also, our post charges players nothing to play, i believe they pay for their hat and socks and have seen that waived in certain circumstances.

Me, I like baseball in any venue. More power to all of them.

LL plays a very important role. It is intended to be recreational, so that really anyone can play and enjoy the game, regardless of ability. Even the best players benefit from being out there with their schoolmates.

Legion is fine by me. There was a time when it was THE summer outlet for the HS player. Those days are gone and not coming back. Legion simply cannot compete with travel ball in terms of offering scouting opportunities to the college bound player. But Legion still offers a strong playing experience to a lot of HS age guys. Gotta love that.

I don't get the point of arguing one vs. the other. Both serve valuable roles. They aren't even competitors, since LL's Senior and Big League divisions are very very weak and no threat to Legion ball at all. I don't see why we cannot appreciate them both. A lot of families enjoy both, at different stages of their sons' lives.

since LL's Senior and Big League divisions are very very weak and no threat to Legion ball at all. I don't see why we cannot appreciate them both. A lot of families enjoy both, at different stages of their sons' lives.

---------------------------------------------------

i think all youth ball serves a purpose, affordability is the key. bigger than that is a place for kids to play and stay out of trouble.

who wouldn't want to go to the sr. LL world series in maine, very beutiful part of the country.

http://worldseries.bangorinfo.com/

LL was more than baseball. It was a community event. Since the food was good people would sometimes have dinner at the park on off nights. The parents would sit around socializing and half watching the games while the kids would be playing behind the outfield fence or in the batting cages.
Isn't any venue from tee ball to 18U that gets kids on the field a good one?

In our area the Legion programs keep telling anyone who will listen the quality of ball is just as good as any travel/showcase level as the numbers continue to dwindle. The Junior Legion kids show up for high school ball less prepared to face tough competition than 15U travel players. The four best players on my son's high school team played 16U when they were fourteen or fifteen.

THe players at our school are forced to play Legion; if they choose to play travel, they will not play on the HS team. The other schools in the district allow their players to play travel and they ALL place more players in College and in the Draft.

As someone who was on the board of the local little league a few years back, I definitely have a bias for Little League.

Little League has a rule that you cannot require a fee to play - every child who cannot afford the suggested registration fee must be allowed to play for free.

Is Little League great baseball and the highest form of 12U?

Nope - but the various organizations that are often compared to it have very different rules around the formation of leagues/teams. Comparing little league to 12U travel is like comparing a public high school to a 17U travel team. There is no question in my mind that my son's 17U travel team would have clobbered his high school team - but then again, his 17U team would have clobbered any high school team I have ever seen. It is just apples and oranges.

As for Legion ball, I also think that it is good baseball - but again, not comparable to high end travel ball.

My opinion is that getting kids out and playing the game we all love is the important thing - that is where the next generation of baseball lovers will come from.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:
.
.
.
ALB is making an epic leap forward this year folks!

What are the specifics?

quote:

Little League has a rule that you cannot require a fee to play - every child who cannot afford the suggested registration fee must be allowed to play for free.

That is correct but the staff at Williamsport does not send over the fee. The fee must come out of the operating budget of the local league.

When I was involved in our local Little League we had to incorporate the number of anticipated sponsorship dollars needed into the league fees of the able to pay members.

I think the LL dollar reserves are high but the organization itself is outstanding. EVERYONE GETS TO PLAY! Every child regardless of level of ability gets to develop love for the game of baseball at the community level.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
This Buddy? He was one of my favorites!

I thought he was speaking of Buddy Sorrell aka Morey Amsterdam from the Dick Van Dykke show


I'm sure some posters are saying "who are those old guys?"

Ok RZ, trivia quiz for you, you old dinosaur.

What was the name of the um, "female" that is standing beside Uncle Jed in the picture on the show? Her show character name.

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:

Ok RZ, trivia quiz for you, you old dinosaur.

What was the name of the um, "female" that is standing beside Uncle Jed in the picture on the show? Her show character name.

That would be Jethro Bodine's sister, Jethrene Bodine. Both were played by Max Baer, Jr., son of boxer Max Baer.

Jimmy, you just announced to the world that you too are a prehistoric dinosaur! LOL.

Correct answer!

You win the grand prize!

Guess RZ is still in the bed!

My lovely wife tells me that I'm still middle-age, provided I live to be 116.

Now we will never know if RZ knew the answer

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Now we will never know if RZ knew the answer

Max Baer was the first cross dresser in a returning role on tv. Way ahead of the times

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Milburn:

It's FREE to play as a player.

From my perspective ... ALB is truly the only nearly 100% volunteer baseball organization in the WORLD!

In many, if not most, areas local ALB charges its players. Also, I know of several areas in which ALB pays its Senior coachess.

Both LL and ALB serve a purpose, but times have changed. In most areas neither provide the most competitive experience for those players (parents) who believe they are destined for college or pro ball.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Now we will never know if RZ knew the answer

Max Baer was the first cross dresser in a returning role on tv. Way ahead of the times

Actually, I believe "Uncle Miltie" beat him by a decade.

And