Long toss, maybe?

What is the child's age?

Elijah posted:

Trying to learn more about getting my kids arm stronger. It seems to be the concensus that his arm is strong, but he will often throw short while going to first from SS. So my thought was that we would start long tossing to get him use to distance, then I realized I don't know the first thing about doing it correctly. So I plan on Googling it but then I thought maybe I would seek advice here first to see if anyone could point me to a solid online reference. 

Of course, I could be wrong in my diagnosis of the problem as well. Any guidance would be appreciated. 

Long toss is fine for conditioning the kid's arm.  Look up Jaeger sports to get the info. 

But doesn't sound like that is your kid's problem.  If he is throwing short in the infield, he needs to loosen up and relax. Let the wrist work.  Good luck. 

Age and body specs (height, weight) would help to have idea of what could be said that might help.

Long toss is good, even for somewhat younger kids to help with conditioning of their arms for throwing.

Here a link to give you some idea how it works:   Long Toss

He is 12. 5'4. 110lb roughly. 

Elijah posted:

He is 12. 5'4. 110lb roughly. 

Oye.  His arm will get stronger as he matures and grows. 

He needs to learn how to pitch first.

When you check out Jaeger Sports for the long toss program, also check out the bandwork program. 

An even more important aspect is to make sure his mechanics are correct.  If needed, ask around for who the better instructors are in your area with an emphasis on throwing mechanics and chain sequencing.  Just a few lessons (and any prescribed follow up work) should assure he is on the right path in that regard.

"He needs to learn how to pitch first."

Not following, TPM. 

Sorry, I thought he was a pitcher.

Regardless, tweaking his mechanics probably will help. Long toss actually can improve distance. 

Not sure if I am a fan of long toss for 12yr old. Just have him work on good throwing mechanics and just play catch.  He will naturally get stronger. I see parents of kids that try to strengthen their arms at a young age and end up doing more harm then good.

Agree, I left out that long toss really isn't necessary at this young age.

Parents need to stop thinking about doing too much too soon. 

Not sure I'm thinking too much. Our local HS does long toss with this age group. But I do like to hear opinions. 

Elijah posted:

He is 12. 5'4. 110lb roughly. 

Well, I'm going to assume that when you said he had trouble throwing to 1st from SS you were referring to a full sized field rather than a LL field.  It's VERY common for a kid that age and size making the adjustment to the full sized BB field as they've played on smaller fields for a while.   He's still growing and he'll surely get to a point where it won't be much struggle.  For now, he just needs to practice and figure out what it takes get the ball to 1st from SS as he makes this adjustment.  Often within travel ball, there are fields used for this age range that are more "intermediate" where it's longer than LL field distances but shorter than full sized.  For these kids, if makes for a nice transition before they might play on a full sized field.  So, you might look into what teams, if any, that might be doing this.  Then as he turns age 14 he should be well ready for the full sized field.

I agree with the others that long toss at this age isn't really necessary.  In a couple years when he's well into puberty, that's when such conditioning can be much more effective.  At this age, and even for several years yet, you need ongoing concerned about too much stress on his growth plates, and simply practicing good mechanics by playing catch with someone often.  

Am looking forward to hearing more about him in the years to come.

I suggest looking into Austin Wasserman at wassermanstrength.com

While you will see a lot of experts and protocols for pitching, Austin is focused on improving throwing patterns.  

There is no doubt that you kid will get stronger but unless his throwing motion is optimized he will be limited in his potential.  

At 12 things don't need to be too complicated, and his problem is VERY common.  Long toss to that age group is more along the lines of stand 20 feet apart, throw the ball to him, now you both take 3 steps back, throw the ball, now you both take 3 steps back, throw the ball...when he's having to rainbow the crud out of the ball to get it to you you have gone too far, both of you take 3 steps forward, throw the ball, take 3 steps forward, throw the ball.

Now that his arm is loose put a large rubbermaid trash can on first base and hit some balls to him at short. This includes pop-ups to shallow left, grounders to 3/4 of the way to third and pretty much at 2B.  He needs to field properly, using good mechanics, good tracking, good lateral movement, and throw the ball at the trash can. Repeat.

P.S. he should NOT be side arming the throw, be VERY careful of that, it is another common problem of 12u SS's.

Elijah posted:

Trying to learn more about getting my kids arm stronger. It seems to be the concensus that his arm is strong, but he will often throw short while going to first from SS. So my thought was that we would start long tossing to get him use to distance, then I realized I don't know the first thing about doing it correctly. So I plan on Googling it but then I thought maybe I would seek advice here first to see if anyone could point me to a solid online reference. 

Of course, I could be wrong in my diagnosis of the problem as well. Any guidance would be appreciated. 

Get super focused on proper throwing mechanics first.  Young kids don't have the discipline to warm up correctly, ease into the throw, initiating from the ground up (get the feet moving).

Check this link out: Trosky has written a number of blogs and videos showing proper warm up drills for throwing.  You'll also see video of throwing mechanics.  At 12 you need to build a solid base of throwing mechanics.  It also helps to learn to pitch from an established instructor.  But I wouldn't advertise the kids new found pitching abilities.  Keep him at SS and offer to be a reliever.  Protect the arm from over use.

http://www.studentsports.com/b...rill-release-points/

Good mechanics, good warm up, grow, get stronger, it all works out.

A 12 can do long toss with a tennis ball instead of a baseball.  There's many ways to do long toss.  I like to work up to rearing back and throwing it up high like a fly ball.  I feel that keeps things loose and helps the stabilizing muscles get some work.  Once he feels sore that's enough.  But shorting a throw to 1B from SS is probably mechanics if you say he has a good arm already.  He needs to throw over the top and get a 12-6 spin on the ball to keep it straight and in the air.  Put some electrical tape around the ball so that you can see it spin straight.  

Hmmmm???  Sorry HSBASEBALL101, changing a person's natural arm slot to "over the top" is usually not good advice and often does more harm than good . . .. a least according to modern bio-mechanical research.  And I've seen quite a few coaches try to do this with kids and it can really mess up much of their other mechanics.  Different people have different arm slots that their body allows them to throw hard with less susceptibility to injuries.   So . . .???  Also,  I doubt getting 12-6 spin with slow rpm on a 55-60 mph throw from a 12 yr. old is going to change the trajectory much, if at all.     I do agree that throwing the ball long can help "keep things loose" and can have that kind of benefit, just that trying to gain strength through work outs like Long Toss just doesn't do much until puberty sets in.

hsbaseball101 posted:

A 12 can do long toss with a tennis ball instead of a baseball.  There's many ways to do long toss.  I like to work up to rearing back and throwing it up high like a fly ball.  I feel that keeps things loose and helps the stabilizing muscles get some work.  Once he feels sore that's enough.  But shorting a throw to 1B from SS is probably mechanics if you say he has a good arm already.  He needs to throw over the top and get a 12-6 spin on the ball to keep it straight and in the air.  Put some electrical tape around the ball so that you can see it spin straight.  

Few good points there, but not everybody is set up to throw over the top.  Had a pitching coach trying to force that w my kid - he was terminated.  It has to be a natural slot, not contrived.

JMexperince 

I would check his feet also. Usually, but not always, SS has plenty of time at this age to get good feet and an "infield crow hop" to first. Also tell him to follow his throw to 1st. This will help getting his momentum going toward the bag. Just trying to think outside the box of the great answers already. And don't forget, throw a 4 seam.

Thanks GOV for the reference to Trosky. I found this as well, http://troskybaseball.org/?page_id=21. 

I wrote to Jaeger about long toss for 12 yr. This was the response:

"Being too young to long toss at 12 has not been our experience. We have found that 12 year olds reap the same benefits as our older students...arm gets stronger and feels better.  Start off at easy distances and slowly push distances until week 4.  After that, it can be more aggressive."

One of the things I love about real science is it's methods to remove confirmation bias.  

 . . . just a passing thought. 

Elijah posted:

Thanks GOV for the reference to Trosky. I found this as well, http://troskybaseball.org/?page_id=21. 

I wrote to Jaeger about long toss for 12 yr. This was the response:

"Being too young to long toss at 12 has not been our experience. We have found that 12 year olds reap the same benefits as our older students...arm gets stronger and feels better.  Start off at easy distances and slowly push distances until week 4.  After that, it can be more aggressive."

 

Excellent... he's great resource.  Get the correct mechanics and keep improving athleticism.

This site can direct you to so many resources in a short period of time.  Good luck to you and your son.