For discussion purposes here, we're talking about kids who are High School varsity players or college players. We're not discussing adolescents.
But, have you ever been witness to an amateur player who, every time you saw him do something or heard something about him, the immediate thought you have is "he's a pretentious eyewash jerk"?
I think we've all seen them, right?
Or, because they're amateurs, are we supposed to not recognize what we see and pretend like it doesn't matter?
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An example. Kid is a HS senior and a P5 commit. The word most used when people describe him is "beast." But, no one ever wants to add that he will turn 19 two weeks after graduation.
Now, I get it. Lots of people reclass. But it always seems arbitrary as to when people want to acknowledge it. If you are going to talk about someone's physicality being ahead of anyone else and you're not going to tag that with the fact that he's older than everyone else, then you're only telling half the story.
Back to the kid, any time he does something on the field, his reaction makes the Mark Gastineau sack dance look like a baby sleeping by comparison. Fist pumping, arms waving, primal screams, everything including the kitchen sink. And, this is after a bloop to right falls in for a hit in a game where his team is up by 10 runs.
Kid also has some red light fever. If someone else is getting their picture taken by the media after the game, or, heaven forbid someone is taking video, he's crashing the shot and making sure his mug is seen.
But, he's a P5 commit! So, everyone touts him and he's the second coming of Roy Hobbs, yadda yadda.
This is what I mean about looking the other way.
What is the alternative option to ignoring it? Confront a high schooler?
@PABaseball posted:What is the alternative option to ignoring it? Confront a high schooler?
Of course not. The alternative is allowing yourself to privately see what everyone is ignoring and not to believe them when they tell you that it's raining while they piss on your leg.
This falls under …
… not my business.
… something I have no control over.
Everyone plays against some jerks once in a while. I know my son shrugged and referred to them by whatever the derogatory name of the day was. Then he moved on. Players can’t be distracted by this stuff. Parents shouldn’t even bother with it.
In the era I played I drilled a kid I didn’t care for with a fastball to the chest. It was called “dotting the I” even if there isn’t one on his uniform.
He will probably be one of the kids that loses his opportunity through his actions and never can fathom why. There were 2 kids last year in the program we play with that were much older but both did something that the recruiters saw and that was that. One of them apparently threw a fit and didn’t run to first on a high but shallow pop fly that fell for a hit. Kind of a showboat move - like saying he’s better than that. The schools no longer were interested and that was that. Feeling was that if he had run hard off tge hit, probably would’ve been standing on second given the error. Our coaches tell the kids, especially hammering into the younger kids, that there is always someone watching. Someone might be observing how you get out of your car and walk into the stadium. So bad or obnoxious behavior will be noticed. Talent might be able to overcome bad impressions, but he better be a freaking rockstar.
I believe you should focus on what you can control, if bad behavior outside what you can control (assuming no physical harm to others) frustrates you, you’ve already lost. Why give these types of people the power to have any impact?
@JucoDad posted:I believe you should focus on what you can control, if bad behavior outside what you can control (assuming no physical harm to others) frustrates you, you’ve already lost. Why give these types of people the power to have any impact?
Great advice. We have a few sh$$heads on our team. I’ve helped my son about those things outside of sports as early as middle school. It doesn’t change though as you get older. I’m a big fan of controlling what you can control and ignore the noise.
OP sounds a little jealous, or is caught up in small town drama
who cares, is my reply. This is America in 2023, you can go outside and throw a rock and you’ll probably hit somebody who is full of themselves. So what? It has literally zero effect on my day to day
The thing about College Baseball is, it will humble you quickly. A kid like that gets to campus and a few 230 pound upper classmen will laugh at him, and if need be throw at him in fall ball, and essentially set him straight.
@Francis7 posted:...........................
But, have you ever been witness to an amateur player who, every time you saw him do something or heard something about him, the immediate thought you have is "he's a pretentious eyewash jerk"?
...................................
Or, because they're amateurs, are we supposed to not recognize what we see and pretend like it doesn't matter?
Yes, we've all seen it. 100%. Look the other way. We're not the attitude police. It WILL catch up to them. Let it go.
A dozen or so years ago, my son was playing in a college game against a conference rival. Their CF (all-conference stud) got a hit and he was carrying on with our first baseman about getting drafted and the upcoming draft. Our first baseman engaged him in conversation as he was shitting over other players in the conference who were not getting drafted. First baseman signaled over to my son on the mound, and they picked him off mid way through the game. You'd think that was enough. Later in the game, he walked (in a close game) and continued the same exact conversation with the first baseman. He got picked off again. There is a lesson there.
Id think his parents would control it but apparently not. See it all the time in college...kids get singles and their dancing towards their dugout...same with doubles...dont even want to get into when some hit homeruns...up by 15 or down by 15, doesnt matter. Theyre showboating...Nothing I can do...I smile and wish my son was a pitcher in those instances. I thank God when my kid gets a double or a home run he puts his head down and runs...celebrates with his teammates in the dugout...if he was dancing around after hitting a homerun id beat him to the dugout
I think it's funny when the parents act the same way. Especially when talking to the parents. I try to turn it back on them and kill them with sarcastic kindness. "Oh my gosh, Lil Johnny was so awesome today. I can't believe how hard he hit that ball. Dude, he was throwing cheddar. Holy crap. He is so good.". I just keep adding on, with a little bit of volume in my voice, to make it almost uncomfortable for the person. LOL.
@edcoach posted:Id think his parents would control it but apparently not. See it all the time in college...kids get singles and their dancing towards their dugout...same with doubles...dont even want to get into when some hit homeruns...up by 15 or down by 15, doesnt matter. Theyre showboating...Nothing I can do...I smile and wish my son was a pitcher in those instances. I thank God when my kid gets a double or a home run he puts his head down and runs...celebrates with his teammates in the dugout...if he was dancing around after hitting a homerun id beat him to the dugout
All players have to do the learn this stuff is watch a major league game. The Red Sox party on every hit even if it’s a broken bat single where the hitter was completely fooled and got lucky. We used to mock our teammates with duck calls on these kinds of hits. Now it’s a party.
@RJM posted:All players have to do the learn this stuff is watch a major league game. The Red Sox party on every hit even if it’s a broken bat single where the hitter was completely fooled and got lucky. We used to mock our teammates with duck calls on these kinds of hits. Now it’s a party.
Yeah I noticed some mlb players do it, but most put their heads down and run around the bases and act like they've done it before. I dont think a little of it is bad, to me it's just look at me nonsense.
Son's teams in college had a few kids like that. They normally didn't last long. Funny thing is, the parents were typically the same way. They'd talk about how great of a game their son had when he had gotten a bloop single to right field and caught a fly ball in the OF lol.
@edcoach posted:Yeah I noticed some mlb players do it, but most put their heads down and run around the bases and act like they've done it before. I dont think a little of it is bad, to me it's just look at me nonsense.
If you party on every hit how do you show true elation?
@edcoach seems a bit extreme.
99% of the time, my son puts his head down and runs. On Sunday, throughout a whole double header in damp, chilly weather, a bunch of Orioles fans heckled him and yelled overrated (and other things) at him every time he was at bat. They were right behind home plate. Anyone who's been to a minor league game can imagine how irritating that can become especially at 10pm on a cold, wet night. Second to last inning of the second game, down by one run with two strikes on him and two outs, he battled off two pitches and then crushed one right center field to go ahead by one (ended up being the final score). I didn't see until the video came up on twitter but he most definitely bat flipped and...umm...verbally encouraged his dugout to finish the game strong.
The other time I saw him do something like that was in the WBC summer of his junior year. The other team was telling him he couldn't hit a curve ball and that's all they were going to throw. They walked him several times and he told himself if he saw a fastball he was going to square it up. He got a fastball chin high and took it to the moon. No bat flip but he definitely didn't start jogging right away. Interestingly, those two HRs have gotten more reactions than all the others in his career combined including grand slams in back to back days at East Coast Pro.
Sometimes it's showboating and overdone and sometimes it's a player showing his competitive fire...his true passion for the game. Within reason, I love to see it.
Ptwood I agree with you. I dont want to take emotion out of the game as we are all human. Like I said, when I see a guy hit a hr up or down 10 runs and act like a fool I shake my head
Edcoach, Francis and PT;
No showboating, when Bob Gibson was pitching. My teammates would NOT approve. They were the next batter.
Bob
@Consultant posted:Edcoach, Francis and PT;
No showboating, when Bob Gibson was pitching. My teammates would NOT approve. They were the next batter.
Bob
Right or wrong days long gone.
@Consultant posted:Edcoach, Francis and PT;
No showboating, when Bob Gibson was pitching. My teammates would NOT approve. They were the next batter.
Bob
Love that Bob!! Exactly!!
@Francis7 posted:Of course not. The alternative is allowing yourself to privately see what everyone is ignoring and not to believe them when they tell you that it's raining while they piss on your leg.
😂 Yeah, we sorta been there. I don’t want to give details to protect identity, lol
@Francis7 posted:It's annoying when I see it but I'm not losing any sleep over it.
I think your description sounds funny, more than angry. Funny in a sort of annoying late night comedy funny.
@PTWood posted:@edcoach seems a bit extreme.
99% of the time, my son puts his head down and runs. On Sunday, throughout a whole double header in damp, chilly weather, a bunch of Orioles fans heckled him and yelled overrated (and other things) at him every time he was at bat. They were right behind home plate. Anyone who's been to a minor league game can imagine how irritating that can become especially at 10pm on a cold, wet night. Second to last inning of the second game, down by one run with two strikes on him and two outs, he battled off two pitches and then crushed one right center field to go ahead by one (ended up being the final score). I didn't see until the video came up on twitter but he most definitely bat flipped and...umm...verbally encouraged his dugout to finish the game strong.
The other time I saw him do something like that was in the WBC summer of his junior year. The other team was telling him he couldn't hit a curve ball and that's all they were going to throw. They walked him several times and he told himself if he saw a fastball he was going to square it up. He got a fastball chin high and took it to the moon. No bat flip but he definitely didn't start jogging right away. Interestingly, those two HRs have gotten more reactions than all the others in his career combined including grand slams in back to back days at East Coast Pro.
Sometimes it's showboating and overdone and sometimes it's a player showing his competitive fire...his true passion for the game. Within reason, I love to see it.
Me too!
My son has always played very stoically. So much so, that you need to know him well to understand how that masks his fiercely competitive and driven nature. He's the epitome of act like you've been there before. But everyone is different, people emote in different ways but I like seeing that it matters to the players. That's not the same as showing someone up, but there will always be those types too. Truthfully, I find the game is more interesting if there are villains - I just don't want my kid to be one of them...
Most fun I had watching Juco was a double header (9/7 inning split) Hill vs. McLennan with 26 home runs, countless bat flips, long pauses to admire the ball leaving the park, screaming coaches, exasperated blues and both teams trash talking - it was bedlam, never seen anything like it before or since. The teams are about 30 minutes apart, they met later that evening and hung out. It's their game, if they don't take this stuff too seriously I'm not going to harsh the buzz by trying to be a purist.
Steve springer said in his mental hitting CD "if you want to be a jerk you better be raking or you will have a real job pretty soon".
That means if you are really good you can get away with some stuff but if you are more like average you will get more chances if you are a good, low maintenance person.
Many don't find out that they are "average" until they hit a higher level, you can rake in high school and then fight for the last roster spot in D1 so you better develope into a good person before you struggle the first time.
With that soft skill stuff it basically doesn't matter if you are really bad or really great but if you are like average for your level it absolutely does make a difference.
But as a parent it is none of your business, the scouts in the stands will think about it. They will also consider age and physical maturity, if you are 19 years old and 220 pounds and throw 84 you can be good in high school but won't impress pro scouts.
@Dominik85 posted:But as a parent it is none of your business, the scouts in the stands will think about it. They will also consider age and physical maturity, if you are 19 years old and 220 pounds and throw 84 you can be good in high school but won't impress pro scouts.
You can bump that up to 90mph.
And...
Of course you can acknowledge to yourself that someone is acting like The Jerk they probably are, those that don't are probably just like them. Usually you don't need to look any further than the Tree. As far as the kid who's all Eye-washed up, you can bet he's masking some pretty strong insecurities. So take it with a grain of salt.
Son pitched in a big spot the other week and showed a little emotion after striking out a friend. He thought he was done for the day. They brought him back out the next inning and he gave up his only HR of the year. It only went over by 1 foot but it went over. I just said that night at dinner. "How did that emotion work out for you?' He just laughed and said not too good. I thought I had done my job.
I think emotion is fine. I define emotion differently than show boating or showing up an opponent. I think emotion is fine unless over done.
I would also differentiate between being a real jerk and being emotional and having fun on the field.
Some guys are real jerks and others will do some strange stuff in the field and they are actually good people with a good makeup.
So for example a guy might be a hard working guy who is never late to a practice, is coachable and supports his teammates but somebody might label him an ass because he does an over the top home run celebration while another scout might think as long he plays hard and doesn't slack he is fine if he has fun on the field (unless it is totally over the top and humiliating the opponent).
On the other hand a quiet player who doesn't act badly in games can still be problematic.
Of course there also people which are both, act like a jerk on the field and is a problematic personality too.
Just my opinion on this...., I have been a little dismayed about the acceptable level of emotion brought to baseball in the past 10 or so years. Honest expression of emotion directly after the action happens is great. but Baseball is not Football or Hockey and the in your face screaming at your teammates to "fire them up" is not baseball. Baseball is a game that you need to recover from either the high or the low. You can't just get all hyped up on adrenaline and produce because there's a little more to it than just slamming your body into someone else to produce an outcome. Add in the level of failure and I don't really think the overboard emotional rollercoaster is beneficial to young players. And so far I see the ramp up in emotion being not about you and your team but more about trying to upset the other, or reaction to having the same directed at you.
A pat on the back, a let's go, encouragement, team discussion in the dugout, all great, the jumping around like an animal, screaming, head butts, throwing equipment, chirping, etc. leave all that on the gridiron, it looks stupid in baseball. And much of it I don't think the player actually know how to channel it into baseball performance.
