Looking for guidance

he is a freshman and going thru normal freshman thing---especially if he is a socalled "great" player

Not pretty is it. You can tell him he's in a very fortunate place and he can learn what not to do when he's a senior and be better for it.

He has got to realize he's a threat to them and they hear footsteps.

I know that a lot of people are going to look at this as hazing, expecially parents. My question is this are they physically or mentally abusing your son? If the answer is yes then you need to step in. If the answer is no what exactly are they asking him to do? Get more gear because all older player always manage to get the younger players to do more stuff. The next thing is this. I know HS and MLB are not the same however they actually do haze rookies in MLB. They make them carry veterans bags, get them food, and a lot of times dress them up and make them go out in public. Is you son going to get depressed then and want to quit? I am a parent and a coach. I do not allow hazing of violence of any kind. However, if they are making him do more stuff because he is a freshman that is life. No difference than the new guy at work getting the ****** shifts and a heavier work load. Their is alway a seniority ladder. Understand when I say this I am a coach and a father so I do see it from both angles.

Maybe you could bake some brownies for him to take to the fellas. Or you could host a sleep over and have a weenie roast.... NOT! Stay out of it mom, you can only make it worse if you go to anyone other than your son. Teach him to show some respect and have a sense of humor. He will become a leader by starting out with some humility. Just reading between the lines but it sounds like he thinks he's their equal or better. My son is also a Frosh varsity player, it can be awkward. Let them recognize him for his achievement and eventually their respect.

I would always lean towards letting him work it out. However, after seeing some of the stuff that goes on these days, I don't know what to think.

All the stories about hazing and bullying that result in tragedy. What's going on out there?

Not to sound cynical, mine is also a freshman on varsity, but what doesn't kill him will make him stronger. We are fortunate that the upperclassmen have embraced his roll on the team. They do harass him and don't let him forget he's a freshman. We look at it as a "big" brother, "little" brother relationship. They may pick on him, but they will be the first to his defense if a non-roster underclassman ever says anything remotely negative to him. He's their's and their's only to pick on.

quote:

but what doesn't kill him will make him stronger.

AGDAD,

I've always liked that approach, too. Actually I still do.

Problem is it seems that some of these situations actually did kill a few according to the news reports. I know that is being over dramatic, but it does add a bit of concern when you hear those crazy stories. Sure would be sad to find out what was going on after the fact. That would be one of the things worse than being overly protective.

quote:

Originally posted by MomofA:
He's always wanted to go to college on baseball scholarship and I'm afraid if he's miserable it won't happen

If this situation stops him from playing college baseball then maybe he really didn't want it enough to begin with. Unless there is something really over the line going on. Then I would have him speak to the coach about it before you stepped in.

If he is in danger, then his coach needs to be made aware of it and needs to step in. Difficult to imagine; but, if the coach doesn't take action, then that's one of the reasons they have Athletic Directors.

However, if it's stupid stuff that stops short of endangering him, I'd suggest that he work his way through it; and, as has been suggested earlier, make a note of how he doesn't want things to be when he's an upperclassman.

Some people show us how we should be, while others show us how we shouldn't be. Either way, we learn from it.

Also, try to keep in mind that baseball is a sport for the tough-minded; and it becomes ever more so as a player climbs the ladder. Working his way through this is but one of many challenging situations he'll encounter along the way.

Having said that, I'm a strong believer in upperclassmen making underclassmen feel welcome as teammates; as I think a fraternal atmosphere in the clubhouse is a lot more conducive to the creation and maintenance of a winning environment than one characterized by fear and insecurity among the newer players.

Best of luck to him!

quote:

Originally posted by MomofA:
My son is a freshman on the high school baseball team. Since starting practice about three weeks ago he's went from loving the game to being depressed every day. We live in a small town so everybody knows he's a great player & was heavily recruited by the HS coach. The upper-classmen give orders to FRESHMAN & don't treat them as part of the team. My son doesn't say "how high" when they say jump. I wonder if things would be better for him if he'd just do what they tell him? Or is there anything I can do to smooth things over a little? He's always wanted to go to college on baseball scholarship and I'm afraid if he's miserable it won't happen

Welcome to the HSBBW.
Moms tend to see situations differently. As a mom myself I realize that there are often two sides to every story.

Becoming part of a team is often difficult. Your son has moved up to another level. Most players have to prove themselves one way of the other, even the "great" ones. The slate has been wiped clean, HS is like starting over. The same will happen someday when he gets to college.
Maybe it's his attitude. Maybe he has to chill out and keep in mind that he DOES have to prove himself, not only to the coach but to his teammates. If he tries to set himself apart from the team, thinking he's better, etc. he is NOT going to be happy because he is not going to be accepted.

However, it appears that he isn't the only freshman it's happening to, tell him to hang in there and then step back, he needs to work it out himself.

IEBSBL offers good insight as to what is ahead. As 3 freshman on Varsity in HS my son was forced to dye his head blonde and who knows what went on in college. I understand that in proball each time a player moves up he is last on the totem pole, and that includes some serious poking fun at along with sleeping on the floor of the bus for 10-12 hours.
If you think that these things don't go on in the upper levels then you should hear what goes on in mil kangaroo court.

If he continues to take it personal he might have trouble later "fitting" in.

Hang in there it will get better.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

but what doesn't kill him will make him stronger.

AGDAD,

I've always liked that approach, too. Actually I still do.

Problem is it seems that some of these situations actually did kill a few according to the news reports. I know that is being over dramatic, but it does add a bit of concern when you hear those crazy stories. Sure would be sad to find out what was going on after the fact. That would be one of the things worse than being overly protective.

what I told mine recently also, his response was.

Think about it...whoever said that is dead now.

I am ASSUMING that this is some harmless teasing & ridiculing. Not something Dangerous or immoral (like the Andover MA. Basketball situation) It would probably work itself out if your Son accepts the fact that he is a Freshmen & take some Light Hearted teasing. Once that happens he will most likely be accepted as a team mate. If he has a chip on his shoulder & wont take **** from anyone it will be a long season. Again I am assuming this is not a Bullying situation.

quote:

Originally posted by showme:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

but what doesn't kill him will make him stronger.

AGDAD,

I've always liked that approach, too. Actually I still do.

Problem is it seems that some of these situations actually did kill a few according to the news reports. I know that is being over dramatic, but it does add a bit of concern when you hear those crazy stories. Sure would be sad to find out what was going on after the fact. That would be one of the things worse than being overly protective.

what I told mine recently also, his response was.

Think about it...whoever said that is dead now.

He died in 1900. I am not a big fan.

My now soph son was the starting catcher last year for the varsity as a fresh. He was the only fresh. He got some grief from some of the older kids initially, and some support from others. Even some of the older kids parents were initially put off by a lowly freshman on the varsity. We discussed this when the coach told him he would be starting varsity, and my advice to him was to prove his value on the field. He is a humble kid anyway and once the season started and he performed really well both at the plate and behind it, the grief went away both from the kids and parents. If your son is a stud, he doesn't need to advertise it or expect to be automatically anointed the team savior, so make him understand his own attitude will have a huge bearing on how this turns out. As has been said above, monitor the situation and make sure the hazing is minor stuff ONLY. If it becomes dangerous, then by all means, approach the coach. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas1836:

quote:

Originally posted by showme:

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

quote:

but what doesn't kill him will make him stronger.

AGDAD,

I've always liked that approach, too. Actually I still do.

Problem is it seems that some of these situations actually did kill a few according to the news reports. I know that is being over dramatic, but it does add a bit of concern when you hear those crazy stories. Sure would be sad to find out what was going on after the fact. That would be one of the things worse than being overly protective.

what I told mine recently also, his response was.

Think about it...whoever said that is dead now.

He died in 1900. I am not a big fan.

Had to go look this guy up...got to show him the one about the females.

That which does not kill us makes us stronger.
Friedrich Nietzsche



Biography
Author Profession: Philosopher
Nationality: German
Born: October 15, 1844
Died: August 25, 1900



Select Friedrich Nietzsche Quotations

Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent.
Friedrich Nietzsche

He who has a why to live can bear almost any how.
Friedrich Nietzsche

To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.
Friedrich Nietzsche

When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Anyone who has declared someone else to be an idiot, a bad apple, is annoyed when it turns out in the end that he isn't.
Friedrich Nietzsche

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Given your stated opinion of your son is it possible he showed up for baseball with an attitude his teammates need to beat out of him?

Regardless, your son needs to suck it up and be mentally tough. My son was teased, knocked down in BP and ordered to carry equipment when he was a freshman. He wore it like a badge of honor. In a scrimmage when the captain took him deep but just foul my son knocked him on his a$$ the next pitch then K'ed him with a change.

Imagine the hazing after he was the cause of the captain being hooted at by his peers. When my son was the last cut from varsity the captain told him he was going to be a good varsity player soon. While the captain razzed my son for a week, what was really happening was earning respect.

How does a baseball coach heavily recruit a player at his high school?

Wow, I thought Kelly Clarkson made up that saying.

.

"Not pretty is it. You can tell him he's in a very fortunate place and he can learn what not to do when he's a senior and be better for it."

Excellent showme...excellent!



.

I probably said some things wrong. First, he isn't on VARSITY and doesn't expect to be but they all practice together. My son is quite the opposite that everybody is saying. He's doesn't talk much until he gets to know somebody & I guess that could be misunderstood as having an attitude. He doesn't believe he's better than any of them but thinks all people should be treated with respect (even if you are a freshmen.) And how we think he was recruited? Several students, coaches, teachers throughout the school year would ask him if he was coming out for the baseball team, then tell him the coach wanted them to ask or make sure.

quote:

And how we think he was recruited? Several students, coaches, teachers throughout the school year would ask him if he was coming out for the baseball team, then tell him the coach wanted them to ask or make sure.

Don't confuse this will being special. No one asked my son if he was going out for baseball. It was expected.

As far as respect and my son's razzing as a freshman, when my daughter and four others made varsity as freshmen they had to go to school dressed like $luts for a day. They laughed it off as acceptance. It's not an issue when your self esteem tells you you're not one. Then they led the team to it's first conference championship in years. Yes, the freshmen led the team. But they still knew their place.

Here's another story. A few years ago I was across the street from the Sheraton (now Crowne Plaza) where ACC players stay when they play BC. I saw the Maryland bus pull up. I went across the street just in case it was the field hockey team. It was. One of my daughter's best friends was on the team. As a freshman she was leading the country in goals and scoring. She was already on Team USA. She received an Olympic invite while in high school.

I asker her about the bus ride. She said since she's a freshman she has to share a seat rather than stretch out like upperclassman. Our talk was interrupted with, "Hey grunt! It's time to carry equipment." She smiled and said, "It doesn't matter how well I play, I'm still a freshman, Gotta go carry equipment."

Teach him to say "How High"

quote:

Originally posted by MomofA:
I probably said some things wrong. First, he isn't on VARSITY and doesn't expect to be but they all practice together. My son is quite the opposite that everybody is saying. He's doesn't talk much until he gets to know somebody & I guess that could be misunderstood as having an attitude. He doesn't believe he's better than any of them but thinks all people should be treated with respect (even if you are a freshmen.) And how we think he was recruited? Several students, coaches, teachers throughout the school year would ask him if he was coming out for the baseball team, then tell him the coach wanted them to ask or make sure.

There are certain dynamics that occur within a team and he has to figure it out. This silly stuff that goes on is just part of the team dynamics, he has to learn to become a part of it. It doesn't sound like he's been signaled out, so I wouldn't worry about it. However good a player may be, they have to learn to be a part of the team. Team Chemistry on any level is important.

I am not sure that would be considered being recruited, but that's ok, he was wanted and now he has to prove he belongs.

Best of Luck to him.

And yes, as stupid as it sounds, he might have to speak up and say how high.

quote:

Teach him to say "How High"

...and college can be worse!

First, this is a culture and climate that the coach has to deal with or, imo, he doesn't have any guts. I dealt with it my first year as a head coach before the upperclassmen could get their hands on the freshmen. Listen, a coach is supposed to develop a program. A program consiste of seniors to freshmen and so, anyone hazing a teammate is detrimental to the program and, in my program, will get the boot regardless of ability. I hate this stuff. Naturally, I went through it as well.

My child is now a freshman in college. Not only can it be bad in college, it can endanger lives. Good luck with dealing with this. Rather, good luck as you support your son as he has to find his way in dealing with this.

Mom: your note serves as a good note to we coaches who try to keep this from happening. I can't be every where during a practice or the locker room but i do try to tell my upperclass men to treat the young guys exactly they want the coaching staff (who is much older proportionately) to treat them.
we draw cards each week for diamond duties like trash clean up and what-not so there is none of this "hey freshmen, get the buckets... "


I know some programs want the younger kids to go thru a rites of passage deal where they do all the the dirty work but I really want my older guys to show servant-leadership and a respect for the game.
The only advice I'd give your son is to do the very best he can at every single aspect of his baseball life so he can feel good about what he is accomplishing... i have a feeling he wouldn't have to look too far to find an example of people who suffered thru far worse to achieve their goals (ie jackie robinson, etc) best wishes and i hope he can get to loving his game again

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I would always lean towards letting him work it out. However, after seeing some of the stuff that goes on these days, I don't know what to think.

All the stories about hazing and bullying that result in tragedy. What's going on out there?

Exactly what I was going to say!

Hazing: Rituals of Bonding or Humiliation? In this study approximately 10000 athletes at 224 colleges were asked about their high school experiences. One intriguing finding was …


http://www.drrobertbrooks.com/...s/articles/0404.html

quote:

Originally posted by Shelby:

"Hazing: Rituals of Bonding or Humiliation? In this study approximately 10000 athletes at 224 colleges were asked about their high school experiences. One intriguing finding was … "


http://www.drrobertbrooks.com/...s/articles/0404.html. .....

My son's walk up song as a freshman was "Dancing Queen". It actually changed four other times but nobody knew because he only hit once (LHP).

This is his senior year. There are three sophomores. Two picked their walkup songs. One had his picked, "It's Raining Men". Why? I won't speak for his team but I suspect somebody needed to be grounded.

Sadly, "It's Raining Men" is one of the best songs. There is also a Led Zepplin, a Dropkick Murphys (the opening lick from "Shipping down to Boston") and a buch of other songs that the sophomore should be allowed to outlaw.

You hear a lot about playes needing strong arms, quick feet, etc. They also need thick skin.

At some point every player has to deal with a situation where thick skin is required. Some kids are born with thick skin, some have to develop it. I have seen my son ripped apart by a coach in front of others. I've seen him be given a cold shoulder by an older player (fist bumped everyone but my son). I mean, I can go on and on.

What I have told my son is that if you let someone get to you, you are giving them your power. Don't let them have it.

I'm glad you posted this, because I am going to have a talk with my son about being good to the freshman on Monday when practice starts at his school. I will remind him that someday he will be on the bottom of the totem pole again, and what goes around, comes around.

Good luck.

quote:

if you let someone get to you, you are giving them your power. Don't let them have it

well said

This is my favorite college player. He's as physically and mentally tough as it gets.

"Every road team for three years got all over him."

"Are you the coach's little nephew?"

"Are you the bat boy?"

"Mow the grass so the shortstop can see."

His response: It's fun.

Chris Cates, former Louisville shortstop

I'm going to share a story about this and why I think it is so dangerous. When I was in high school, I was cut my freshmen and sophomore years. I was told that I was "just too mean" to be allowed to play. I was raised in the bad part of town around drug dealers and thieves. I had to learn to protect myself or else so somehow I gained this reputation. Anyway, I made the team my junior year and I have posted on here several times that I believe Coach Dorsey saved my life the day he kept me on the high school team. However, what most people don't know is that the team decided that they were going to "initiate me" and run me off. They took wet towels and filled them with bar soap and waited for me to go into the shower. They intended to enter the shower in mass and beat me with those towels. I don't know if you have ever heard of this or not but it can be ugly. I knew when I saw them what was up. So I got ready to fight. One lone teammate stepped through the crowd and stood next to me and basically said that anyone that tried this would have to fight him as well. Mike and I never ran together. We never had classes together. He didn't even hardly know me. They backed off and I stayed on the team. Mike and I became good friends. Unfortunatly for all of us, a couple of days after he graduated, he went to see his dad at work and walked into a place filled with posionous gas and died. I think of Mike Grenzback all of the time and that day that he stopped this from happening to me. Coaches have to step up and deal with this issue. Looking the other way is the action of cowards.

If it is non-physical hazing, it is team building and if he doesn't get with the program he might as well go play tennis or s****r.

Comments above have mentioned it happens in college, it also happens in the pros...haven't you seen the rookie pitchers wearing Hello Kitty backpacks to carry the "supplies" to the bullpen??

No different from mental hazing in fraternities, it serves a purpose to build unity, teamwork, and brotherhood and as long as it is non-physical it makes you stronger.

Just give it some time-it can get better as the season goes along. If he proves to be an asset to the team he may feel better. My advice is to make sure he finds a good fit for Summer Ball League. Some areas have much better Summer teams than school teams because they can pick/choose who plays and HS make due with whoever comes to try out. HS is only one place to get noticed. If he quits then he truly did not have passion for the game. If he wants to play again in Summer for another team then he's proving he's in it for the love of the game. Tell him not to allow others to influence his decision when it's time to play or give it up-that's on him to decide.