Loudmouth Parents

Gee... I think that that is a great part of the game as a fan! I enjoy yelling at Blue when he makes a call that I percieve to be bad, or wrong.

 

I have seen many a coach argue with Blue as well over the years.

 

This is actually one aspect of the game that is really fun. You do need to be respectful and not over the top, but arguing with umpires, at every level has been part of the game since it began!

You're pretty much gonna have one or two of those types of fans at almost every HS game.  I'm not an umpire and really don't want to be.  Most of the umps I do know have pretty thick skin and it takes a lot before they even issue a warning.  I only recall one ump even warning a fan, and have never seen one "eject" or ask a fan to leave though there's probably a few that should have been asked to leave.

 

I've found that when a fan is like that and I'm near them, I calmly ask them why aren't they out there then?  Usually quiets them up for a bit.

 

One thing I finally learned is that at the end of the day, it's still just a game.

I hear you FloridaFan. There is a certain right to disagree with calls that comes with being a baseball fan. I'm just wondering where the line is drawn and what it takes to cross it.

I'm with FF on his perspective that this is a much as part of the national pastime as is the game of baseball itself. I may give it to them every inning all game long. But I will always, always make it a point to go up to them after the game and tell them they called a great game if they were dead on. It goes both ways for me. I've had some that I was riding and they would turn around and give it back to me. They gained my respect at that point and I let them do their job.

 

What's crossing the line? I suppose cursing, swearing, threats, obscenity, etc. I'm not very shy so if I ever saw that I most likely would go up and approach them and strike up a conversatoin with them to help them calm down. Knowing my luck...as Im standing there trying to calm him down and Blue makes a bad call I may let him have it with a "COME ON BLUE!" Lol.

 

YGD

I was ejected from a couple little league games once or twice. Once I ejected myself! That remains very memorable and good for a chuckle around town!

 

As the years went by and I learned to understand what and what was not acceptable behavior, I adjusted my tactics.

 

I was never ejected from a HS or higher game. Maybe twice during travel ball.

 

So I do enjoy giving it to umpires when in my mind they blow a call. Once in college though I just let the head coaches get ejected! I try to set a relatively good example by then, and was more concerned about turning off scouts than any other motive. That kept me in check.

The umpire's jurisdiction is on the field side of the fence.  

 

If a fan has truly interfered in the execution of the game (throwing objects on the field, using vulgarities to berate players --HS and lower-- or something similar, the umpire needs to seek out the AD or facility management and have them address the issue.

If comments regarding eyesight, rules knowledge or strike zone bother him, he needs to find another avocation.

There is a direct, negative correlation between h.s. parents that heckle and belittle the umpire (and, for that matter, other players and coaches) and players who are successful and move onto the highest levels of baseball having such assanine parents.

 

But the chatter continues even beyond h.s..  They're called drunk fans.

Kovina Kris,

 

What authority would you think gives an umpire the power to eject an obnoxious fan?  If you think its somewhere in the rules, I challenge you to find it.

@Stats4Gnats,

 

The recent ejection of Mike Bibby from his son's HS basketball game had a little to do with my question (I know that wasn't baseball but it was HS). Apparently the refs asked the police to escort him out of the game and they did. "Does the umpire have the authority to eject an unruly fan" was a direct question I probably should have asked. Thanks for answering it from what was implied

 

Another question if any umps want to chime in: Is the topic of loud and obnoxious fans covered at all in umpire's school?

I only work youth and JV games.  Our training on this subject was basically what Jimmy03 said with the added point that the coaches can be held accountable for their fans.

 

Once when I worked football games, I was refereeing the championship game in a youth league.  Very intense and loud fans very close to the sidelines.  One lady was so off the charts in the volume and hostility of her screaming at my linesman that I went to the sidelines and reminded the coach of a local rule that required coaches to control their fans.  After I warned him of the consequences of continued bad behavior (unsportsmanlike conduct, ejection of coach, forfeit of game), he said, "Ref, that woman is my ex-wife. Any ability I ever had to control her behavior is long gone."  After sharing a chuckle, we all agreed just to ignore her as best we could.  

The only reason it came up when I went toproschool is because it was asked by one of the attendees.  The answer was even blunter than the one I gave above:  "What happens on that side of the fence is none of your business.  Mind your own business."

@Swampboy - That is a great story about the ref and his ex-wife. Too funny!

if your an adult and a non coach and you have fun giving it to blue you lead a sad life...stop trying to be part of the game and go sit down. LOL 

Whit23 - I lead a very joyful life. I am happy that I do not attend any games with you!

As an umpire I keep my ears out of the stands....I learned that in my 14 years as a head varsity baseball coach.

I was a volunteer coach on Bum, Jr.'s middle school team.  The team was really quite bad.  Once when Bum, Jr. was on the mound he gave up a routine fly ball to left which was totally muffed.  I casually called back to Bum, Jr. from the dugout:  "It's alright, not your fault, just keep focused."  It was the second to last game of the year. 

 

The next game, the head coach looked worried.  He said the mom of the left fielder was highly upset and had complained to the coach and school management and wanted me fired.  Apparently I hurt Johnny's feelings.  The head coach asked if I would go talk to the school administrator and offer a written apology to the parent.

 

Nah, coach, I said, tell her after this game I resign.

 

 

 

In my area, the umpire will throw fans out.  They will announce to the home field coach that such and such fan has been ejected and then, if that fan is not removed, the umpires will forfeit the game.  I've had several fans ejected and each time, it was apparent that they had been drinking before coming to the game.  In fact, I had to go toe to toe with one who would not leave.  I wasn't going to lose that way. 

 

I hear all of the time that this is a part of the game.  I've been around the game all of my life and have never felt the need to do it.  Instead, I love watching the game as competition between teams and young people.  I never wanted to be the center of attention as these fans become.  In fact, it appears to me that they want to become the star of that night's game. 

No rule code, OBR, NCAA, FED, NAIA....give the umpire that authority.

My authority only extends to the confines of the field...Over the years, I've been able to block out most comments from fans.Its what is taught by all the higher level clinics I've ever taken and the policy of all my associations that interactions with the fans are the responsiblity of the home team.

 

From my time being a baseball parent and a fan, I never saw the "upside" in riding an umpire or seeing that as fun or even as a part of the game....If your actions so un-nerve a young umpire into being more erratic as to cause more calls that you dont agree with, what have you accomplished? 

 

 

 

Many times I have heard the sons of the loudmouth parents mutter something about wishing their mom/dad would just shut up; they're embarrasing.

 

Yeah... The players get upset and embarassed when their coach holds the umpire accountable after a blown call as well. It is all so embarassing for everyone involved. The game is really just a cerebral event, and clapping is offensive to the other team as well. I have heard parents get excited when a ball is hit over the head of an outfielder who did not position himself correctly! It is all so cruel. These children, I mean many are under 18 years of age, and when a group of parents cheers when a ball goes over a defenders head, it is all so uncalled for. And what about that poor, poor pitcher that threw that FAT 82 MPH pitch down the heart of the plate... A player who really cared would just politely bunt the ball back and show off his speed.

 

But fans should never be verbal in any way. It is all so uncalled for. Since I have finally grown up I rarely open my mouth other than to comment on the weather. Fans should be seen and not heard.

 

Whenever there are angry words or acts of incredulity on the field, or a player expresses any disgust, I just have to pick up my chair and head to the car.

 

It is so hard to enjoy these games anymore...

What is our world coming too....?!!

 

Both Football and Basketball have penalties on the coaches which can affect the outcome of the game, baseball doesn't really have that.

 

In my area what we are instructed to do by the state is if a fan is crossing the line, call time and get the coaches together and let them know the ball will not become live until that person is gone. This way, we didn't eject them, The coaches did. If they don't leave, game is over, that adds pressure to the fan from the other fans who want to see their kids play. I've only used this once when a fan was calling a kid very offensive things. It worked for me.

other people being idiots does not justify someone else being one..coaches questioning umps is a little different as they are  on the team..parents are not...

As soon as you guys get this one solved, we probably need to move on to determining how many angels fit on the head of a pin.

@wraggArm - I'm not sure how many Angels will fit on the head of a pin but I know how many Angels' players can be on the baseball field at one time. 9 if they're on defense and 5 if they're on offense and the bases are loaded (don't forget about the man on deck).

 

I have enjoyed giving blue some grief over the years, but I don't think it was ever more than the typical "call it both ways" "can't hit that" "leave it up" etc. 

 

Baseball-when son was high school senior, we went to watch an early season weekend from the DII that was recruiting him.  It was an away game for the college, and in late February and it was COLD.  We didn't know any one there except the coaches we had talked to.  One of the parents, gave the HP a little "that's low, blue" one inning.  After it was over, HP came over and asked "Who said that?"  The guy owned up.  HP said "I don't want to hear any more of that.  I call them the way I see it, and it is too cold for this $#!t."

 

Basketball-Fifth grade tournament championship game.  Our section was not good (not me personally-son mostly sat in basketball) but town had a reputation.  However, at half the refs came to center court and announced that after halftime, things had better change from the fans or the other half of the gym would be emptied.

 

Last but not least, in a high school basketball game, at half the refs were going through the tunnel to the locker room.  Right under the radio stations calling the game for both teams.  One took offense at a comment one the radio guys made on the air as he went underneath him about a call he had made right before half.  The radio guy was ejected.

+1 here FF....heckling the Ump in a respectful way is definitley part of the game, a really fun part.   And like womeone else posted..I try to be the first to tell them afterward thanks for their time and that they did a good job

its not personal against you i just dont have any desire to be part of the game or to be heard thats not my role. I played and coached and had my turn now its someone elses. I dont need to insert myself in the game

. Here is an exerpt from mike matheny and a letter he gave parents when he coached youth or high school..link to letter is below too

The boys will not be allowed at any time to show any emotion against the umpire. They will not shake their head, or pout, or say anything to the umpire. This is my job, and I will do it well. I once got paid to handle those guys, and I will let them know when they need to hear something. I am really doing all of you parents a favor that you probably don't realize at this point.

http://www.mac-n-seitz.com/tea...-matheny-letter.html

I had the plate in HS JV game last spring between two local rivals. It was the last game of the season and the dad of one pitcher was loud throughout, wrong as always but obnoxious as usual nonetheless. My assignor happened to be sitting about 10 seats from him and after the game remarked to me about the fan and asked my thoughts. I said I knew I couldnt respond to him but that I wish my wife were here because she would have sat down next to him and given it to him. The varsity plate guy was standing with us and quickly asked can she come to his games. We all just laughed. So yes we can hear the leather lung fans but we also learn to tune them out.  If they get personal you remind yourself who is the idiot?  The one with a cheap seat and bad judgement or the trained official with the best seats in the house and a great view of every play. Cannot tell you how many times I hear a player mumbling that he wishes his loud parent would just shut their mouth and enjoy the game.

I wish I could find the link to the Cardinals-Brewers game a few years ago where the home plate umpire had a fan ejected. That was one of 5 total he ejected that day I believe..

 

I've seen numerous fans ejected over the years in baseball and basketball. For basketball, often the officials will just tell the administrator to get rid of whoever. But in baseball, very seldom is there an administrator present!

The umpire identified the fan for team and stadium officials who then "ejected" and escorted the fan out.  Umpires may report fans guilty of illegal activity, behavior that runs afoul of facility rules and excessively vulgar or racially offensive language.  However, the umpires do not eject these fans.  

 

The rules for basketball are indeed different.  By rule the officials may eject spectators.

After spending a few weekends watching college ball in a stadium where beer is sold and students are strongly encouraged to attend, I can tell you the umpire is not even the primary target.

 

Opposing first base coach and players are the real targets, especially the pitcher.

 

One piece of advice to college players, don't post / tweet / advertise your family secrets in social media. By the time you throw your third warm up pitch, the opposing team's 'loud mouths' know enough about you to make the rest of the home fans uncomfortable (we laugh, but we don't like ourselves for doing it).

 

Some of it is just funny, some of it is just unacceptable. There is only so much they can yell at an umpire about and umpires must do a much better job with the social media stuff.

 

Before social media and in a high school summer league, I became the target one night which was actually quite funny! This particular field had a concession stand on the first base side with a balcony where fans would stand. These kids were all over me (playing 1st base for the first time!) and I struggled not to laugh at some of it!

My daughter is a junior in HS and a pitcher. She had a couple of wins in the early season tournament and then went into the game against one of the better teams in the state. Needless to say after 3 1/3, 15 runs, 10 earned, it had ended badly.

 

When she caught up with us later that night at baseball, she was complaining about the other team's parents "encouraging hitters, and yelling about how fat I was being late in the count and cheering every run."

 

Then she spent two games with us in the stands hearing all of the stuff posted above, and I asked her, "If you were pitching here as a visitor like you pitched today, what would they be saying about you?"

 

The answer is retorical and I think a lesson that many HS pitchers who think they are worthy of pitching in D-1 will never learn.

@whits23 - That's a wonderful letter from Matheny. The only thing I might disagree with is parents offering basic encouragement. When I played I never felt pressured by "You can do it Kris" or "Give it a rip" type of stuff but it is an extra thing for your brain to have to deal with when people are shouting stuff at you--good or bad, so it might be distracting for some. One of the parent types that I don't care for is the "hitting expert". Offering advice (to their own kid as well as to others that aren't) like, "Keep your head down and open up your hips" may be good advice but mid at-bat is NOT the time to give a hitter lessons in hitting mechanics. Also, you're the parent, NOT the coach. If it's your kid and you really are a good hitting teacher, then spend as much time AWAY from the field as you can with your ball player. Giving detailed hitting advice during the game from the stands is really just a way of saying to everyone, "Look how much I know about hitting. Ain't I awesome?".

 

@Jimmy03 - That's very interesting that basketball refs have the authority to eject unruly fans where baseball umps don't. That would certainly explain why the ref was able to have Mike Bibby ejected from his son's HS basketball game.

This so true....last year I was sitting on our side and was listening to some of the students on our sdie....they were talking to the kid at first about his girlfriend and what would his dad ( called him by name) would think of his error he just made....nothing really bad, but they were getting on him. I asked one of the kids does someone in the student crowd know this kid or went to high school with him...They said no, but they had his facebook page open and they were getting all kinds of info off the player's page. The commentary did not stop and I have to admit it was pretty funny. At one point I was wondering if the player heard them or was able to block it out....

 

Got my answers a few innings later when there was an extra funny commnet made and the kid playing first base even cracked up laughing....he had a good sense of humor. i would imagine if the kid had reacted badly to the comments it would have grown in their intensity.

 

So great advice make sure your accounts are private.

My son's first pitching appearance last week was as a "starter" of a game suspended from the night before, so it was really the 8th inning with runners and a count on the batter. But since it was the first game of the day, he warmed up like a starter. He told us there was "a lot of noise" well warming up and he was pretty nervous.

 

He said when he got on the mound, toed the rubber, the noise went away and he got tunnel vision. He inherited a 2-1 count with two on and two out. He threw two strikes to end the inning. He said he was pumped, did a full turn around to third, second and then first base to run off and he said the volume was back to normal by the time he started running off.

 

He said it was like that movie with Kevin Costner about "clearing the mechanism".

 

The guy pitching against them on Sunday didn't "clear his mechanism" and once it starts working, it isn't stopping.