Does anyone find it interesting (besides me) that almost all of the Major League top 20 all time leaders in home runs launched (meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?
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Can you re-word this...Im tying to understand it, but it doesnt make sense.
I stole this clip from chameleon...
quote:launched (meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?
I stole this clip from chameleon...
The problem with mic's statement is "all time HR launchers". Many of them are what we would call "oldtimers".
In my clip library I have several old timer clips. Almost to a one, they swing in a mostly horizontal swing plane.
However, todays' modern day players swing in a mostly diagonal swing plane.
This is an old topic that never really got answered. Why the difference? The best reason was the high strike that used to be called that isn't called any more.
I wouldn't call Manny, Arod, Ortiz, Pujols, RHoward FThomas, Cabrerra, Fielder, Giambi, DLee, Ordonez, Chipper, TClark....low hands hitters. Some aren't in the top 20 HR hitters.....yet.
But, they are todays modern day power hitters.
Bonds is on the low hands side. But not many others from today's modern game.
In my clip library I have several old timer clips. Almost to a one, they swing in a mostly horizontal swing plane.
However, todays' modern day players swing in a mostly diagonal swing plane.
This is an old topic that never really got answered. Why the difference? The best reason was the high strike that used to be called that isn't called any more.
I wouldn't call Manny, Arod, Ortiz, Pujols, RHoward FThomas, Cabrerra, Fielder, Giambi, DLee, Ordonez, Chipper, TClark....low hands hitters. Some aren't in the top 20 HR hitters.....yet.
But, they are todays modern day power hitters.
Bonds is on the low hands side. But not many others from today's modern game.
Horizontal vs Vertical swing plane discussion....
nope not going there again
nope not going there again
I wouldn't call Manny, Arod, Ortiz, Pujols, RHoward FThomas, Cabrerra, Fielder, Giambi, DLee, Ordonez, Chipper, TClark....low hands hitters. Some aren't in the top 20 HR hitters.....yet.
Nor would I as far as where they start their hands, but they are all swinging on the 4 degree up plane when the bathead is taken/thrown at the ball. But what about McGwire, and Sosa? They are low hands hitters and they played modern day ball. Jeff Bagwell was also a low hands hitter. My point in this, is that the reasoning behind holding the hands higher is really not needed even today and may even be detrimental to some hitters.
Nor would I as far as where they start their hands, but they are all swinging on the 4 degree up plane when the bathead is taken/thrown at the ball. But what about McGwire, and Sosa? They are low hands hitters and they played modern day ball. Jeff Bagwell was also a low hands hitter. My point in this, is that the reasoning behind holding the hands higher is really not needed even today and may even be detrimental to some hitters.
quote:Originally posted by deemax:
Can you re-word this...Im tying to understand it, but it doesnt make sense.
[QUOTE] launched (meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?
Okay! I'll try to explain. Today's hitters mostly start with their hands near or above their shoulders before they unload, but the older guys started them below chest high. I happen to think the reason they changed is because someone started to teach "swing down and get backspin" and this really doesn't happen at contact with a home run hitter. They are swinging on a 4 degree upward plane after they tuck their elbow and go to the ball, therefore it was a wasted move to have their hands higher.
quote:My point in this, is that the reasoning behind holding the hands higher is really not needed even today and may even be detrimental to some hitters.
I highly disagree.
The strike zone can be covered most efficiently with high hands.
The following is the modern day "high hands" hitters adjustment technique.
The high hands reason/plan is for all swings to be launched from the high hands position. You don't adjust handset or posture before you launch the swing. There is no time for that. You simply adjust the swings direction by adjusting the direction of the hand swivel and then adjust the arms/posture as needed. After launch, not before.
So, in effect, you are 'on plane' on every pitch even before it's thrown.
The swing can be launched and then adjusted.
This hitter starts each swing the same. Then adjusts for pitch location.
That is "high level" stuff.
While Howard and Kata use different technique to accomplish the same goal, notice the first direction of the barrel in each hitter.
It is not toward the ball.
quote:Major League top 20 all time leaders in home runs launched (meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?
quote:Okay! I'll try to explain. Today's hitters mostly start with their hands near or above their shoulders before they unload, but the older guys started them below chest high.
quote:Originally posted by Chameleon:quote:My point in this, is that the reasoning behind holding the hands higher is really not needed even today and may even be detrimental to some hitters.
I highly disagree.
The strike zone can be covered most efficiently with high hands.
The following is the modern day "high hands" hitters adjustment technique.
The high hands reason/plan is for all swings to be launched from the high hands position. You don't adjust handset or posture before you launch the swing. There is no time for that. You simply adjust the swings direction by adjusting the direction of the hand swivel and then adjust the arms/posture as needed. After launch, not before.
So, in effect, you are 'on plane' on every pitch even before it's thrown.
The swing can be launched and then adjusted.
This hitter starts each swing the same. Then adjusts for pitch location.
That is "high level" stuff.
While Howard and Kata use different technique to accomplish the same goal, notice the first direction of the barrel in each hitter.
It is not toward the ball.
Ted Williams did all of those things as does Barry Bonds, they just start closer to the strike zone therefore cutting down the distance to adjust. The trigger in ANYONE'S swing should be in the same spot on every swing. John Kruk made some very good points on Baseball tonight Wednesday night showing clips of different hitters that don't adjust their hands to different pitches and those that do.
quote:Originally posted by deemax:quote:Major League top 20 all time leaders in home runs launched (meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?quote:Okay! I'll try to explain. Today's hitters mostly start with their hands near or above their shoulders before they unload, but the older guys started them below chest high.
Do you have a point? Do you still not understand what I'm saying or do you not know why this has changed? I made the FULL point in an earlier post, if you don't agree, just say so, but at least give your reasoning as Chameleon did.
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chameleon:
[QUOTE]My point in this, is that the reasoning behind holding the hands higher is really not needed even today and may even be detrimental to some hitters.
I highly disagree.
The strike zone can be covered most efficiently with high hands.
The following is the modern day "high hands" hitters adjustment technique.
Let's take just this one hitter. Look at the distance from the time the barrel starts moving to the point of contact. To actually get the sweetspot to the ball is much more difficult. Point being, the farther away you start the sweetspot the harder it will be to actually bring it to the center of the ball. Mathematically, I don't see how this can be argued effectively. The more movement a hitter has in different directions, the more possibilities of error will occur. I think Albert Pujols has figured this out to an extent. Because he squats so low, he has very little to change in his posture up or down, he has a very small up and down strike zone. The hands high method works well for him because the bat doesn't drop as far to get to the strike zone. Alou and Soriano also shorten their strike zone. IMO, Soriano would hit for a much higher average if he would drop his hands 6 to 10 inches.
http://www.hittingillustrated.com/library/FThomas.gif[/IMG]
I just noticed something in this clip. Thomas actually lands on his front heal here in his stride.
I just noticed something in this clip. Thomas actually lands on his front heal here in his stride.
mic
I dont understand what your saying.
In 12 months or less half of the top 20 home run leaders will be from the modern era (1980+).
You stated
Who started their hands forward at or below their waist? I asked you to clarify....
... and you stated
How does this make sense...Are all current members of the top 20HR club "starting thier hands forward at or below thier waist"? A better question would be are any? So, did the old timers start from below their waist or thier chest?
Do you see any reason why someone reading this thread could be confused by what you are quoting?
quote:Do you have a point? Do you still not understand what I'm saying or do you not know why this has changed? I made the FULL point in an earlier post, if you don't agree, just say so, but at least give your reasoning as Chameleon did.
I dont understand what your saying.
In 12 months or less half of the top 20 home run leaders will be from the modern era (1980+).
You stated
quote:"Major League top 20 all time leaders in home runs launched (meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist."
Who started their hands forward at or below their waist? I asked you to clarify....
... and you stated
quote:Okay! I'll try to explain. Today's hitters mostly start with their hands near or above their shoulders before they unload, but the older guys started them below chest high.
How does this make sense...Are all current members of the top 20HR club "starting thier hands forward at or below thier waist"? A better question would be are any? So, did the old timers start from below their waist or thier chest?
Do you see any reason why someone reading this thread could be confused by what you are quoting?
[quote]Who started their hands forward at or below their waist? I asked you to clarify....
You first asked me to reword my statement. You never asked me who did this. You then put the smiley face man on your post. Like I've said many times before in my posts, it is much easier for me to show someone something than it is to put it on paper.
To answer your question, Babe Ruth started with his hands "near or below his waist" (my original statement) and so did Mays, Williams, Aaron, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa. Do you want more? Put up the clips and let everyone decide.
You first asked me to reword my statement. You never asked me who did this. You then put the smiley face man on your post. Like I've said many times before in my posts, it is much easier for me to show someone something than it is to put it on paper.
To answer your question, Babe Ruth started with his hands "near or below his waist" (my original statement) and so did Mays, Williams, Aaron, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa. Do you want more? Put up the clips and let everyone decide.
mm
You said started them forward (hands) from at or below thier waist, not the starting positon in thier stance. Thats why this doesnt read well. You write one thing but mean another.
When I read your quote it sounds like the hitters start moving thier hands forward from below thier waist.
quote:(meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?
You said started them forward (hands) from at or below thier waist, not the starting positon in thier stance. Thats why this doesnt read well. You write one thing but mean another.
When I read your quote it sounds like the hitters start moving thier hands forward from below thier waist.
quote:Originally posted by deemax:
mmquote:(meaning started them forward) their hands from very near or below their waist?
You said started them forward (hands) from at or below thier waist, not the starting positon in thier stance. Thats why this doesnt read well. You write one thing but mean another.
When I read your quote it sounds like the hitters start moving thier hands forward from below thier waist.
Okay, now that you've reiterated that I suck as a writer, will you comment on the subject I meant to convey? Does it really matter where the hands start from? If yes, why? If not, why?
