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Maddux Retirement

D Dtiger1,000+ posts
I saw today that it's being reported that Greg Maddux will retire. It's a big day for baseball, and although I never got to see him pitch in person, I never passed a game I saw on the television with him pitching. He's a pitcher, he didn't throw, he pitched--to the fullest extent. He inspired me to pitch the way I do, and gave many (at one time young, maybe still some young) ballplayers a perfect athlete to model themselves after.

A sad day for me indeed.
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P PGStaff10,000+ posts
quote:
If only more are given the opportunity to "pitch" the way he did instead of 95+ mph flame outs.. we would see more true craftsmen of the art....


Maddux was low 90s in high school. If he wasn't he probably would never of had the opportunity himself. He was low 90s as a rookie. From there he was able to "subtract" velocity to increase movement and control.

You could say, lots of 90+ pitchers will have the opportunity to pitch the same way, but very few will do it.

People need to understand that Maddux started with a great arm! Then he became one of the best pitchers ever.
SS SOUTHPAW SON10+ posts
St Johns U had a player like that LHP named George Brown-just graduated = didnt overpower- mid 80's or so- but was undefeated till the NCAA playoffs. I believe he was either 8-0 or 9-0 in the regular season.

Brown was drafted by the St L Cardinals this past draft
in the later rounds.

I like to watch these guys cause that it what my son is like.- not overpowering as a 16 y old LHP but went 15-2 in HS and travel combined. He just turned 17 a few weeks ago.

I remember one game last year against a pitcher who was throwing gas and just signed recently with St Johns U. My son faced his team and struck out the first 9 batters in a row. They were so confused they had to smile heading back to the dugout. He ended up beating this pitcher and team the two times he faced him. batters had comfortable 0 fors!

But- reality is the velocity guns dictate for a lot of scouts so even though the scorebooks show that the job gets done, very few of these types get a shot at the big D1 schools. Even his travel team parents say they cant understand that the results do not translate into more opportunities.They have had the opportunity to see him for an extended time period.

In any event, it is all meant to be what it is- so he is working hard and moving ahead.It all works it self out.
DB Danny Boydston1,000+ posts
When my son first started taking pitching lessons at I think about 11-12 (now a sophomore in college) his instructor Steve Busby told me that if you're a LHP and can throw the ball 60 feet 6 inches, someone will give you a look. Today, it just seems to me that there are just as many southpaws as there are guys throwing from the right.

Back to Maddux, I love to see the camera view from behind him because you can see the tremendous amount of movement that he had on his pitches. It was almost like he was throwing a whiffle ball. Simply dominating!
Last edited by Danny Boydston
EH Emanski's Heroes1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by puma1:
Rays have had a few soft tossers. Reliever JP Howell out of UT doesn't throw very hard and neither does starter Andy SOnnenstine. Casey Fossum, an ex-Ray threw the ball so slow, it barely made it to the plate. ANd how about Wakefield. He has a very successful knuckleball career.


Maybe someone can help me out, but I believe Fossum could run it up towards the mid-90's out of Texas A&M. He may not be able to do that now, but he had a very good arm in college and early in his pro career. I believe he throws some very slow breaking balls, but I don't think there's anything wrong with his FB velo.
CoachTraubCoachTraub100+ posts
I agree on a couple great points here: Maddux is awesome. I grew up in Atlanta watching him, and when his ERA was other-worldly, he was throwing pretty hard (pitching at 90-91, top 93 or maybe 94). Glavine, by the way, also threw pretty hard, pitching upper 80s, touching low 90s.
Both are great athletes (Maddux's Gold Gloves, Glavine could've played NHL) AND great minds for baseball.

2nd point: Many who could eventually get outs in MLB, including the later versions of Maddux and Glavine, don't ever even get a chance in MiLB because they don't fit the prototype.

Think about Steve Avery. He dominated as a young thrower with awesome stuff and lousy mechanics, then hurt his arm and came back and pitched several more years in the big leagues throwing over 50% change-ups and not breaking a pane of glass (FB 81). He got that chance because of his past, which included proof that he was a great competitor. Quite a few others have done this after an injury, so if you know of one, add it to a list on this thread. I hope GMs, Scouting Directors, and Scouts will take note (not expecting this anytime too quick) and draft guys who are very effective in college ball throwing mid or even lower 80s. They would be effective in the lower minors right away, and if they add a couple mph AND have big league make-up, these guys could become great finds.
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachTraub:
I agree on a couple great points here: Maddux is awesome. I grew up in Atlanta watching him, and when his ERA was other-worldly, he was throwing pretty hard (pitching at 90-91, top 93 or maybe 94). Glavine, by the way, also threw pretty hard, pitching upper 80s, touching low 90s.
Both are great athletes (Maddux's Gold Gloves, Glavine could've played NHL) AND great minds for baseball.

2nd point: Many who could eventually get outs in MLB, including the later versions of Maddux and Glavine, don't ever even get a chance in MiLB because they don't fit the prototype.

Think about Steve Avery. He dominated as a young thrower with awesome stuff and lousy mechanics, then hurt his arm and came back and pitched several more years in the big leagues throwing over 50% change-ups and not breaking a pane of glass (FB 81). He got that chance because of his past, which included proof that he was a great competitor. Quite a few others have done this after an injury, so if you know of one, add it to a list on this thread. I hope GMs, Scouting Directors, and Scouts will take note (not expecting this anytime too quick) and draft guys who are very effective in college ball throwing mid or even lower 80s. They would be effective in the lower minors right away, and if they add a couple mph AND have big league make-up, these guys could become great finds.


Problem is, most here think 90mph is a rare asset.

90mph guys are dime a dozen. With this, MLB organizations take take chances with these guys who have velocity and find the few who have the make up. It's only later that a few will become crafty and dismiss their 90mph asset and go with what is effective for them at the time.

Believe what you see.

Percentages show velocity can cover mistakes better than below average velocity.

Also remember, getting a hitter out in college/HS is completely different than at the professionel level.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
One thing you have to understand is that part of what makes Swindle effective is that he's the only guy throwing that softly. He thus messes up batters' timing.

And even at that, he'll have to have great movement, command and strategy to succeed.

If everyone were throwing 80, it would be much more difficult for the Swindles and the Moyers.

Which is one reason why the guys who throw 80 in our local high school games get pounded so often.
M mlb97100+ posts
What people fail to realize about Greg Maddux is that he was 94-96 mph out of high school in Las Vegas and threw hard early in his career with the cubs. Greg Maddux is the exception to the rule, his command and life on his fastball was second to none. I was at his retirement press conference in Las Vegas during the winter meetings. First ballot hall of famer for sure!!

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