what do you guys think of him? Has anybody had any experience with him? Has anybody had any success with their velocity using his techniques?
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I'm sure he knows what he's talking about, but his technical jargon is complicated stuff. I've tried to understand it and gave up. But I'm just a mere mortal.
that was my first impression exactly
quote:Originally posted by s2fmf:
what do you guys think of him? Has anybody had any experience with him? Has anybody had any success with their velocity using his techniques?
While Marshall would never admit it (for complicated and my opinion misguided reasons), you can see aspects of what Marshall advocates in the mechanics of guys like Freddy Garcia. Garcia gets his pitching arm up EXTREMELY early, which is one of Marshall's key points.
The thing to notice is that Garcia's arm is up and in the high cocked position while his glove-side foot is still off the ground.
This should help to protect his shoulder.
How should that help protect his shoulder?
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
How should that help protect his shoulder?
Basically, it prevents habitual rushing, which some people believe can lead to shoulder problems.
If you start rotating the shoulders before the pitching arm side forearm is vertical, it increases the distance and force with which the upper arm externally rotates. This can place excessive strain on the muscles of the shoulder and/or the labrum.
I believe that the problems that Kerry Wood is having with his shoulder may be related to this.
Contrast the (horizontal) position of his pitching arm side forearm in the picture below with the (vertical) position of Garcia's forearm in the pictures above.
But you don't have to be early to prevent problems. Just have to be on time.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
But you don't have to be early to prevent problems. Just have to be on time.
No, but if you're always early you'll never be late.
But if you are early, you can throw things out of synch.
These are two completely different types of mechanics… still shots do not illustrate the dynamics of each throw.
Garcia is leaping out to landing…..his arm better be up early to use the load of the jolt at landing. It’s very hard to attain an efficient arm posture at solid foot plant with this type of lower body mechanics and landing.
Wood’s arm is not late by any means. Video illustrates Wood’s arm/hand passing through the high zone by solid foot plant. He’s one of those pitchers that lands on his heel first. As the foot flattens out, the hand gets higher, and it’s timed to pass through the apex of the zone at solid foot plant much like Garcia.
http://bb.rcco.us/index.php
Garcia is leaping out to landing…..his arm better be up early to use the load of the jolt at landing. It’s very hard to attain an efficient arm posture at solid foot plant with this type of lower body mechanics and landing.
Wood’s arm is not late by any means. Video illustrates Wood’s arm/hand passing through the high zone by solid foot plant. He’s one of those pitchers that lands on his heel first. As the foot flattens out, the hand gets higher, and it’s timed to pass through the apex of the zone at solid foot plant much like Garcia.
http://bb.rcco.us/index.php
Once again demonstrating the potential hazard of the single still photo...
quote:Originally posted by cap_n:
Wood’s arm is not late by any means. Video illustrates Wood’s arm/hand passing through the high zone by solid foot plant. He’s one of those pitchers that lands on his heel first. As the foot flattens out, the hand gets higher, and it’s timed to pass through the apex of the zone at solid foot plant much like Garcia.
The problem with Kerry Wood is that his shoulders start to turn before his forearm is vertical. This places a ton of stress on his shoulder.
Look at a clip of Wood's mechanics and notice the position of his pitching arm side forearm at the moment his shoulders start to turn.
The shoulders starting to turn just prior to the forearm being vertical is NOT uncommon. Actually, I'd be surprised if you can find very many that don't.
I've made a similar response to your Kerry Wood comments that Cap_n did.
"Still" at it with the "stills", I see. Why do you insist on drawing conclusions from stills when everywhere you go, people jump on you about it? You really should take the advice you've been given on this.
I've made a similar response to your Kerry Wood comments that Cap_n did.
"Still" at it with the "stills", I see. Why do you insist on drawing conclusions from stills when everywhere you go, people jump on you about it? You really should take the advice you've been given on this.
quote:Originally posted by dm59:
The shoulders starting to turn just prior to the forearm being vertical is NOT uncommon.
I think it's less common than people think.
What's more, guys who share this flaw seem to be more prone to shoulder problems.
Could the Doc be twenty years ahead of his time?
And who continues to throw in the Over-50 League in Florida!
And you just got to make positive note of his
desire to share 'with the world' his knowledge, experiences, lessons learned and free material on coaching pitchers 'to anyone'. When is the last time that has happened....in 20 years!
In Jan, there will be about 2,000 'anyones' travelling to NJ to listen to Doc speak!
And who continues to throw in the Over-50 League in Florida!
And you just got to make positive note of his
desire to share 'with the world' his knowledge, experiences, lessons learned and free material on coaching pitchers 'to anyone'. When is the last time that has happened....in 20 years!
In Jan, there will be about 2,000 'anyones' travelling to NJ to listen to Doc speak!
…… it’s common for the shoulders to start turning prior to the forearm being vertical. I see it and I agree.quote:The shoulders starting to turn just prior to the forearm being vertical is NOT uncommon.
….people think the majority of MLB pitchers' shoulders start opening prior to the throwing forearm being verticle, but that's not true...people just think they see it. Not a chance.quote:I think it's less common than people think
Flaw? What high velocity pitchers have the "flaw" of starting to open their shoulders prior to the throwing forearm being verticle.quote:What's more, guys who share this flaw seem to be more prone to shoulder problems.
http://bb.rcco.us/
quote:Originally posted by Bear:
In Jan, there will be about 2,000 'anyones' travelling to NJ to listen to Doc speak!
Lots of folks also shared koolaid with Jim Jones. The presence of a following, in and of itself, doesn't add credence. The validity must come from analyzing and studying the teachings.
Not to mention at least one person who is doing it like Marshall says at the highest of levels! The simple fact is there is NOT a single pitcher in the major leagues that uses Mike Marshalls pitching mechanics not a one!quote:Originally posted by Texan:quote:Originally posted by Bear:
In Jan, there will be about 2,000 'anyones' travelling to NJ to listen to Doc speak!
Lots of folks also shared koolaid with Jim Jones. The presence of a following, in and of itself, doesn't add credence. The validity must come from analyzing and studying the teachings.
I see the painguy is making friends again. He is everywhere preaching Marshalls methods with still photos.
Does his username match his persona?
Does his username match his persona?
quote:Originally posted by baseballbum:
I see the painguy is making friends again. He is everywhere preaching Marshalls methods with still photos.
First, go to the top of the thread and see what started this whole conversation off. I'm just trying to answer a completely innocent and valid question.
If you don't want to hear about Marshall, then don't read any posts about him (e.g. check out the subject lines of posts).
Second, if I had a video of Garcia, I would point people to it. But I don't (and Siggy doesn't), so I make due with what I have.
Garcia does NOT represent Marshall mechanics. He might show a small component but I'm even skeptical of that, given what I've read about Marshall and discussed with someone very, very familiar with Marshall's teachings.
quote:Originally posted by dm59:
Garcia does NOT represent Marshall mechanics. He might show a small component but I'm even skeptical of that, given what I've read about Marshall and discussed with someone very, very familiar with Marshall's teachings.
Marshall recently acknowledged in his 2006 Q&A files that Garcia's mechanics resemble, albeit only in part, what he advocates.
"02. Someone taught Mr. Garcia to pendulum swing his pitching arm to driveline height without 'Late Pitching Forearm Turnover' and 'Reverse Pitching Forearm Bounce.' Now, if they would also teach him to not take his pitching arm laterally behind his body and pronate his releases, then he would try harder with greater release consistency and better quality pitches. Every now and then, I see someone, like Mr. Garcia, who uses some part of the pitching motion that I recommend, but, until they use everything, they will never be the best that they can be."
