Malicious Contact during rundown

This is a had to be there call.  If the fielder had the ball he is allowed in the base path to tag the runner.  If he was just in the line up of folks waiting to receive the ball he can not be in the base path.  Don't forget base path is not a direct line between the bases but rather the direct line between the runner and the bases.  

In most instances I have see the ump EJ a kid (at the lower levels for sure) when he raises his arms as he is going into the collusion.  It doesn't really matter if he is protecting himself or attempting to push the fielder, if the arms come up and into the fielder they usually EJ but that is up to each ump to determine.

Can you explain how his arms were "raised"?  Were they raised to his chest like he was about to ram the fielder, or where they raised to his side while he was running?

His arms came up as if he was surprised there was someone directly in front him.  Just like if you or I just turned around and started walking and someone or something was suddenly there.  

The fielder did not move into the base path to make the tag or to catch the ball, he was already in the path. In this case the base path was in a line directly between first and second base.  The fielder would have been ran into whether he had the ball or not.  In fact he caught the ball and tagged the runner in the head as he lowered his arm after making the catch. This is why I was wondering if the call could have been impedance.

I know this is a case of "you had to be there", but I did not think the MC was justified.  It is what it is.  I just thought the runner had a chance to defend himself in this situation as the fielder was camped in the base path

Rule 2.00 (Obstruction)
Definition: Occurs when the fielder, who is not in possession of the ball nor in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.
Exception: A fielder may occupy his position to receive a thrown ball, as in a catcher blocking home plate while fielding a throw. If, in the umpire's judgment, the fielder is "in the act of fielding a ball," contact with the offense may be legal. However, if the fielder has already missed his attempt, his "act of fielding" protection is lifted and it is obstruction if he impedes the runner.

Sounds like the fielder had every right to be there.

Goin-Yard,

Without commenting on a play I didn't see, there is an answer to your question of how a runner about to be obstructed protects himself when a collision is imminent without getting called for malicious contact.

The answer is to act with the understanding that finding a hapless fielder in one's path does not give the runner a free shot on him. Don't plow into, pave, drill, steamroll, blow up, hammer, bury, or otherwise run over the fielder who causes the obstruction. Don't use your "right of way" as an opportunity to deliver a punishing blow. Use your hands and arms in a manner that conveys you are trying to cushion rather than magnify the force of the impact. Get untangled as quick as you can and proceed to the next base with all haste. Trust the umpire to see the obstruction and make the proper award after the play concludes.

When it occurs, malicious contact always takes precedence over obstuction. It nullifies any base award the runner might have received and gets him an out and an ejection instead. 

Hope this helps.

P.S. I posted the above comment before I read your additional information about the fielder being in possession of the ball when the contact occurred. A fielder with the ball is entitled to be in the baseline. A runner approaching a fielder who is trying to tag him has four options for avoiding an interference or malicious contact call: make a legal slide (not practical in this situation), give oneself up, turn around, or go around. The ump must have thought he had time to choose one of those options.

Players are taught to run into somebody (without the ball) to try to get out of a rundown (via an obstruction call).

Next time I bring it up with my players, I'm going to mention that they shouldn't blast the fielder into the next county.

Somehow I'd never really thought about the potential for M.C.

(I realize the runner in the OP didn't "blow up" the fielder)

Last summer at the PG 25 super regional something along the same line happened I did not understand.Play at 2nd to start DP.Runner had went on first move of P.(hit & run, steal whatever) Antway runner and fielder get to 2nd @ same time.Runner slides over the top of 2nd base.Fielder did not make contact with ground but, did drop ball and fell on top of runner.Runner was called out.Opposing coach is aurguing with ump our runner should be thrown out.???????????????

Swampboy,  That is what I was looking for.  I still think the contact was more accidental than malicious, but it is is what it is.  Thanks for the reply.

"  The fielder would have been ran into whether he had the ball or not.  In fact he caught the ball and tagged the runner in the head as he lowered his arm after making the catch. This is why I was wondering if the call could have been impedance."

Doesn't matter when he went into the baseline relative to when he acquired the ball.  If he has the ball he is entitled to be in the baseline.  You tend to see this a lot at home plate.  Catcher blocking plate waiting for ball.  Ball arrives and .000002 seconds later runner arrives.  As the catcher has the ball he is allowed to be there.  If the runner arrived .0000002 seconds before the ball then the catcher would be guilty of obstruction.  

Most of these are had to be there type plays and really hard to diagnose with an online description.  Even with video one person may have one opinion and another another opinion.  These are tough calls for umps and someone is not going to be happy.  If you on the loosing side of the call, the ump blew it.  If you on the good side of the call the ump know his stuff and made the right call.

proudhesmine,

You didn't say what contact occurred when, but your phrase "slides over the top of 2nd base" suggests a force play slide rule violation.

Swamp, 2nd base recieved ball @ the same time runner slide into the bag.The runner came to a stop just as rump was getting to bag.The ball getting dropped and 2nd Bsman falling on top of runner all @ the same time.

I've seen the situation you described. There is not a lot a runner can do. Back and forth in the rundown, he reverses, turns head, and wham there is a fielder right there closing fast on him with the ball. (ie fielder finally got the rundown throw caught on the move correctly) Runner blindly reversing direction into an oncoming running fielder with ball. First reaction of runner is to put hands up in front of chest or face. Cause it is a guaranteed collision coming for all.

Maybe it looks like malicious contact? But its just normal reaction.

And yes I have seen runners tossed wrongly. My son included. And he did not get his monies worth and actually took the brunt of the collision. Plowed under by catcher on run. 4 grades higher and 50lbs heavier

Yeah, that's not a legal slide. If he slid all the way in so that his rump hit the bag and got tangled up with the pivot man, he's going to be out for interference, the batter-runner could also be called out depending on what the umps judge would have happened with a legal slide, and he could be ejected depending on how and how hard he went in.

I don't think we know yet whether the slide was legal or not.  If the contact happened on top of (or directly over) the base, it was legal (assuming the foot was below the fielder's knee, no roll block, etc.).  This is true even if the slide THEN goes beyond the base.  If the contact was beyond (toward left field) the base, then the contact is illegal.

And if the slide was illegal, then the BR is automatically out, no matter what the umps "judge would have happened with a legal slide."

(And, I'm assuming HS rules above).

To the OP -- MC supersedes OBS (and given later posts, maybe it wasn't OBS anyway).  And, while it is HTBT, recognize that your view of the play is different from the umpire's view (especially because your son was involved).  If the umpire had NOT called MC, we could easily have a post from F4's dad indicating "R1 raised his arms and tried to chuck my son out of the way.  Why was he not ejected?" 

Noumpere,

If his rump is at the bag when contact occurs, it's hard to imagine a configuration in which he hasn't already slid past the bag or raised his feet.

(Thanks for correcting me on the automatic BR out--not sure why I got that wrong)

noumpere,  The situation in the OP was definitely a HTBT play. CaCO3Girl posted the rule and it is pretty cut and dry so there was no need to keep posting about it.  Not that it matters, but my son wasn't involved in the play and I think the runner took what little impact there was on the play.

The ball and the runner basically got to 2nd base at the same time.The only reason (I'm guessing) the runner slide was tthat he saw the play that was starting to develop in front of him and the only way to not have the same situation as OP was to slide.In my mind if runner hadn't slide he would definatly be out and I would feel he should be tossed for bowling into 2nd baseman.Sliding was the only option.I am not saying swamp is wrong.I just still don't get the call.Is the runner to stop 6 foot before bag on a bang bang slide and ball transfer play? 

On a force play, the runner's options are slide legally directly into the base, or run or slide in a direction away from the play.

How do you know its a force play?balls not there yet.Could be a force play.Could be the front half of double play.If the ball is being transfered to throw and runner is 6 ft. away thats entirely another thing.When slide has already started and ball and runner arrive at the same time.Has runner avoided contact by sliding?Should he have just kept running.I am not saying rule should be this or that.This also is not some rare thing that happens.What I'm saying is if a player pulls up 6ft. short to make sure fielder catches ball then gets out of fielders way just how long will runner get any playing time?There was nothing intentional.In fact one could argue it was 2nd B fault for falling on runner to begin with.It was obvious he wasn't going to make throw to 1st and shouldn't have set up OVER the bag waiting for throw only to lose not only ball but, his footing.

I'm a little confused.  the "front half of a double play" IS a "force play."  It's exactly what the rule is designed for.

And, as I said before -- if the contact is on top of the bag with an otherwise legal slide, the contact is legal.

He was called out.opposition coach wanted runner thrown out.As I had wrote in original asking.I'm with you.It just thats not what went down.No need to reply.I guess i'm just one of those confused alot type people.Have a great spring.