Marshall vs. House vs. Jaeger vs. whomever else is out there

Keep doing what you are doing, particularly if your son is happy and succeeding.

The Jaeger stuff is for arm care and conditioning and the mental aspects of pitching. Bands and long toss will only make him stronger.

Tom House pitched for 8-9 years in MLB, he coached MLB pitchers for the Astros, Padres and was head pitching coach for the Texas Rangers for 5 years. He has written >20 highly regarded books, founded and operated several impressive companies, and he is now the pitching coach at his alma mater--the USC Trojans.

His studies have always been predicated on an understanding of the common ground within elite pitching mechanics--that is, his research has always been geared toward learning what the "best" do in common and, he has developed all of his training methods toward teaching mechanics and conditioning that reflect what the "best" do.

That is a major reason why some of the best pro pitchers in the world continue to turn to House in the off-season for training, conditioning, and remediation of their mechanics: House doesn't teach the "House method" of pitching...he teaches what the "best" do in common with one another, and he helps pitchers understand what things are imperative to work on versus those things that are merely "signature" or "style" features of individuals, which can (and should) be left alone.

Every pitching guru has lots of detractors--in fact, I find it very amusing that many other "gurus" spend quite a bit of their time attacking House's vast body of work in baseball. He doesn't seem to spend any time at all responding to that kind of nonsense--he's far too busy working with real pitchers.

By the way, in the off-season youth pitchers can still work directly with Tom House in small group sessions for a pretty low cost (+ the cost of a vacation to LA). If that kind of thing is still within your budget in these tough times, it is money well spent.

Is there one particular dvd that House has made for drills and/or mechanics that you guys would recommend??

Thanks,

CoachW

Coach W

Check out the National Pitching Association site (www.nationalpitching.net). Here are some specific suggestions for you:

-- Take the online course. Very inexpensive. Very well done. Lots of great instruction that you can easily translate to players. You also get a hard copy manual that is very helpful for reference. My son was a beta tester, and he loved it.

-- The 8 DVD Pitcher Development Series is also terrific. If you want to buy into this piece meal, start with DVD 1 (Pitching Mechanics) and go from there.

We have used these to support my son's training, and to train other Pitchers very effecitvely. Coach House keeps it simple, easy to digest for young players, and very positive.

Like LAFlippin says, Coach House teaches from a very sound base of research backed principles; and teaches how each player can apply the principles around his specific genetic signature. Every "House Style" Pitcher will look different, based on what God and his parents gave him as a starting point. Where they are similar is that they embrace the same fundamentals that are backed by extensive research, and a track record of success.

I will also echo LA's comment that at the 2 camps where my son worked with Coach House, and the multiple exchanges we have had with him and his associates through the years, we have never heard any of them knock another Coach ("guru"). Coach House just says here is the research we have done, that backs up what we are teaching; and lets you make your own determinations.

We're big fans at our house ... but that is mainly because of the incredible consistency, success, and good arm health my son has enjoyed since he became a "House guy" when he was 11 (now 15).

Best of luck to you and your young Pitchers.

quote:

... we have never heard any of them knock another Coach ("guru"). Coach House just says here is the research we have done that backs up what we are teaching; and lets you make your own determinations.

Although I'm not an NPA/House guy, nor am I against it, this is something that I really like about House. I only wish the others would take his lead on that.

We are pretty big House fans here too. My son has had the privilege of working with him several times; most recently when we went to the USC winter camp. He's the main reason my son wants to go to USC so badly (of course, a lot can happen in three years.)

I was just curious about other philosophies and gurus because we've already been in situations (a weekend camp) where another pitching coach tells him to do something that's the exact opposite of a House teaching. I thought if he knew what the other gurus were saying and why, he might have a better understanding of where they are coming from.

Looking ahead -- way ahead -- I want to avoid a situation that happened to an alum of his school, a very good "House" pitcher who went to a D1 and then clashed so badly with the pitching coach about House mechanics that he left for JC.

LHPMom

LHPMom -- Any chance our boys may have been at the same camps in Bethesda in recent years? My son is a 2011 over in NOVA.

Personally, I have come to grips with the fact that there are as many Pitching experts as there are Coaches, former Pitchers, former Catchers, groundskeepers, and arm chair pundits. Every Coach has their ideas on the right way to Pitch, and their philosophy will be the right one for their program. If you don't like their philosophy, don't sign up for the program, because they will not be changing their philosophy for your son.

There are lots of similarities between the many philosophies I have seen. They can all be typically tied back to some success someone had somewhere along the way. Many are tied to old myths that go back to the dawn of the game. Some tied to some new theory or research. The NPA has the greatest body of believable research for my money and experience.

We're trying to follow what seems to be sound advice. Do your homework. You have bought into the House/NPA biomechanics and research. When looking at programs, learn how their philosophy stacks up against the NPA philosophy and the stages of the NPA Biomechanics. Identify programs that follow a compatible philosophy, even if it goes by another name.

My son was at a college prospect camp this past summer where the host school is very NPA-like in philosophy. Coaches from a couple of other participating schools were clearly well out of step with the NPA approach. Other Coaches were saying and teaching things that were somewhere in between.

My son has become savvy enough to realize that if he really believes in what he is doing with the NPA approach, he can pretty well cross off the Coaches who were 180 degrees out of step with the NPA. Not the schools mind you. Because Coaches move, schools don't.

Sounds like we are at a similar stage in the process, so this may be the blind leading the blind; but this is the advice we have been given, and it certainly seems to make sense. Good luck to your aspiring Pitcher.

southpaw dad:
Excellent post. I think you've said what pitcher-parents need to take to heart.

quote:

we went to the USC winter camp.

LHPMom--do you mean the Dec 29-31 HS Prospect camp? My boy was there, too--one the RHPs for scrimmage team #10.

If by some miracle of coincidence your LHP was there and also on team #10, it is likely that I might have some pretty good video clips of him...let me know.

I think the best way to assess the "teachings" is for the teachings to be posted. That way, you don't go in to the territory blind. I have never participated first hand with any of Houses preferred mechanics, but there are certain aspects that all high velocity pitchers perform regardless of style. So the question is, does House know what they are. In the past, I have heard that House took what he thought was common to all pitchers and highlighted those as the rule of thumb. The problem with this is that there will be conflicts when dominant linear lower body mechanics are mixed with dominant rotational upper body mechanics.... and vice-versa.

Hi Cap_n

Isn't spring time in DC terrific? At my son's try-outs this week, one day was spent just shoveling snow off the field.

Here is a link to a Free item on the NPA sight that discusses the quest for the perfect delivery, and more importantly, gives a graphical representation of the NPA Pitching Biomechanics.

http://www.nationalpitching.net/sampleart.asp?

If this wets your appetite, the next best thing to do is to spend the $25 and 2-3 hours required to go through the Online Clinic.

http://www.nationalpitching.net/onlineclinic.asp?

In my opinion, to try to clearly communicate the multi-dimensional aspects of a Pitching philosophy or mechanical model in a one-dimensional environment like a web post is probably not going to be very effective; and highly likely to become a train-wreck of a thread (like some other threads in this forum).

If you really enjoy studying the art of Pitching ... which I believe you do from our previous exchanges ... check out the online course. Or maybe we can catch a game together some time.

cap_n,

You are absolutely right. Six years ago, when I started to understand just how uneven, myth-based, and sometimes downright capricious the average pitching instruction for youth is...I studied every source I could find for about 6 months. There are numerous books, videos, camps and websites offered by numerous pitching coaches and many of them may offer information that is mostly good. Only a small number of them are really bad, and an equally small number are truly outstanding, far surpassing the rest. Overlaid on this spectrum of quality is the obvious condition that there is not always a clear-cut principle for deciding whose approach might really be "best" for any given individual. So, in the end, every individual needs to perform his/her own due diligence and make personal decisions based on his/her own individual b.s.-meter.

But, after 6 months of hard and often perplexing study and consideration of a great deal of conflicting information, it was a straightforward decision for me and the results of the past 5-6 years have consistently reaffirmed my confidence in my decision.

There is no question that every person needs to perform his or her own diligence--it's not something that anyone else can do for you.

Southpaw_dad-

quote:

Isn't spring time in DC terrific?

.....yeah, but these last two days
Thanks for the links, I'll take a look soon. And yes, maybe we can get together at a game somewhere.


laflippin-
I think you're right on. Each thrower needs to have their style evaluated for efficiency, and then start from there. No cloning of a pro, simply learn from them to stay within the guide rails. The problem is, who do you trust to correctly evaluate your child.

Southpaw Dad,

Yes, we did the House thing in Bethesda twice -- I believe 2005 and 2006. I'm sure our boys were together. Maybe you can give me some advice about schools in the next year or two!

Laflippin, yes, that's the camp we were at. Son can't remember his team number, but he had a gold t-shirt jersey...

LHPmom

LHPMom,

Sorry to get your hopes up...team 10 wore maroon jerseys. My son's team played against a team w/ black jerseys and another team with maroon jerseys.

We definitely saw the gold t-shirts at camp but I didn't get any video of them.

Here's a sentimental clip from the camp...there's nothing like the middle of winter in SoCal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPSqb2XNMeY

Thanks for the clip!

My son 15 March 28 has had a "House Pitching coach" for last 4 going on 5 yrs. He has never had a sore arm or tired for that matter. He does all the off season training to build arm strenght (he is at around 80mph not bad for a freshman). He works hard ,does his towles, etc.I don't know if its the best but it works for him. I know at the WWBC 14U coaches were telling me they could get 5 mph extra on my sons fastball with a change in technique when I asked his coach he agreed but said it would probably injure his arm--no change was made. We all just hope we are doing the right thing doing are best.

My son is 22yo and we followed the House mechanics. He is a SR in college and never been injured. Don't let anyone change your son's mechanics.
Last year, actually at the end of his soph year his ol;d coaches messed him up by trying to change him. He was having a stellar year at about 33 innings. Under 3 era and and a OBA below 2. The last couple games his numbers shot up a bit so I didn't pay attention. Last year he had the most awful year and I got to see him on the video stream. He was totally messed up and frustrated. His velo actually dropped. We corrected him last summer and the results have been improved dramatically.

And the other great thing about the House teachings, along with no arm soreness, is that when son has a horrible outing like he did yesterday, he can give a very detailed explanation of why he kept throwing the ball high and outside....

LHPMom

quote:

he can give a very detailed explanation of why he kept throwing the ball high and outside....

Rushing.

-just playin' the odds