Mary Washington

My son has a friend in the baseball team that is a sophomore OF this year and he really likes the school. He is going for their pre-med program and the team plays a competitive schedule. We also looked at this school before we settled on NC Wesleyan but they did not have his major. Price wise, they are very expensive.

I've heard rumors that they over-recruit.

I've heard the same rumors.

It is not necessarily overrecruiting as the fall tryouts are open----many kids go there because of the academics and then go out for the baseball team in the fall and possibly coach does not even know who many of them are---he and his staff do recruit and they know who those players are---we have been fortunate to have a number of our players play there over the years--great coach and a great man but be fore warned he is a taskmaster

quote:

Price wise, they are very expensive.

Are you talking about Mary Washington or NC Wesleyan being very expensive? I don't think you're talking about MW because they are consistently one of the cheapest four year public schools in Virginia.

If you take a look at the profiles in their incoming freshmen, I think you'd find them 3rd in the state behind W&M and UVA in terms of the quality of student they attract. It is a small (roughly 4,000 undergrads I think) liberal arts school, so they don't offer the array of programs that bigger schools offer.
And believe TR's note....TS as a task master is very accurate.

NC Wesleyan is where my son goes to and it's abut $34K with room and board. My piece of the pie is $17 per year.

If you look at UMW, their price tag for the year is only about $15K.

My son looked seriously at MW before settling on CNU. Some of the reasons were:

1) CNU coach made it clear he wanted my son and spent almost two hours touring us around CNU talking about the program and school. MW coach talked to us for only 1/2 hour in his office - no tour. Both are well respected, experienced coaches but CNU's seemed more personable. Since MW head coach did not show us around we went to see the field ourselves and ran into Fitz who did a great job helping to sell us n the program.

2) The field at MW is nice, but I'd have to say CNU's is nicer. The training facilities at MW are good, at CNU they are great.

3) The dorms at MW are old (classical architecture) some without AC, whereas CNU's are new and like staying at a Marriott.

4) No question the academics are better at MW. CNU is tough to get into, but as was already mentioned, MW ranks right behind the top two schools in VA for selectivity.

5) One drawback I see is that MW is losing an excellent asst coach this season. Fitz is a great #2 and really knows the game (especially hitting). MW will be hard pressed to replace him. I hear he is heading north to get a FT job and help coach at South County.

6) Both schools play in conferences with good competition. I'd give the edge however to the USA South as they seem to be tougher top to bottom. MW had a sub par year last year by their usual standards. MW gets to compete with Salisbury - perennial power, and York - consistently good, and adding the rising Stevenson program will help the conference even more.

Please don't take any of the above as a criticism of the MW program. We really liked the school and program and had CNU not expressed interest, would have very seriously considered MW. I just wanted to share one 18 year old's thought process when considering MW.

The thought process"---the 18 year olds or yours??? it certainly isn't clear in your post

Per a pamphlet received this week as a CNU parent:

The average high school GPA of entering freshmen for 2009 was 3.8 and the average SAT (math/verbal) was 1200.

Admission is getting tougher all the time.

hokie

That applys to nearly every college nowadays

My personal observation is that CNU is placing tremendous emphasis on SAT's first, and GPA's a distant second, in a deliberate effort to raise its student body profile as a strategy for raising its profile across the board. CNU applications don't even require an essay.

Not saying whether that's good or bad, it just is.

(If you take a look at the profiles in their incoming freshmen, I think you'd find them 3rd in the state behind W&M and UVA in terms of the quality of student they attract. It is a small (roughly 4,000 undergrads I think) liberal arts school, so they don't offer the array of programs that bigger schools offer.)


I think you missed Washington and Lee.

Ken,

Correct. Washington and Lee does have higher standards yet-I got that straight from CNU's President-but it sure sounded like the long term plan is constantly pushing up the level of academic excellence, in terms of instruction and quality of students. ("quality" referring only to academic measuring sticks such as GPA and SAT.) Current enrollment is around 6000.

Washington and Lee has a great baseball field too, if we're going to mention all of the important things.

I only pointed it out because W&L and UMW are both on my son`s short list so I became aware of the acceptance difference.

Yikes. W&L has a tremendous academic reputation, and is known nationwide. CNU is not even known by everyone in Va. Money has been poured into CNU recently, but we are looking at a long period before they can jump past the stalworts of UVA, W&M and W&L.

I reread my post, and I did not mean to denigrate CNU if it came across that way. Virginia has been expanding the resources of some of its colleges, such as CNU and Longwood to name two, and raising their admission standards significantly. The thread was for MWU.

I actually left W&L out intentionally, but I guess I wasn't clear as to why. I was making reference to public schools only. Washington & Lee is certainly a great academic institution (right there with W&M and UVA), and it is also very expensive.

TRhit: The "thought process" was actually the prioritization that my son developed when he was looking at schools.
1) A good mid-sized school (+/-5000)
2) Good baseball program
3) Had to like the coach
4) Dorms / Facilities
5) Baseball facilities
My involvement was to try to steer him to a VA public school since we'd bought the VPEP contract. CNU and UMW were both good fits.

NOVA


Thus the thought process was yours because you had already limitred the choices---not necessarily a good or bad thing but a fact


Funny--I do not academics on the list

TRHit:

I guess "good" mid-sized school wasn't descriptive enough - "good academics" was his top priority.

You seem intent on trying to paint me as some kind of controlling "baseball dad". Apparently you don't think an 18 yr old is capable of knowing what he wants in a school. Mine sure did.

BTW - If he'd wanted to go to a $40K/yr private school, I'd have paid for that too. I'm just glad he chose one that saved us some money.

NoVA,

In my mind, it is all about the "thought process".

You should be proud of your son. He is mature enough to have a plan, told you what he wanted and now you get to make it happen. If "good academics" are on the top of his list, then they are on the top of your list too.

In the end, it is his list and his academic and athletic future. Most college players aren't gong to be drafted or play baseball after graduation....that is reality. It is a tough reality, but he probably realizes it at 17 or 18. Smart kid. Again, you should be proud of his maturity.

If the truth be known, show me a college mentioned anywhere on this web site that doesn't have "good academics". They all do. Some have bigger names and reputations that make getting that first job easier, some have smaller classes, some have more tutors and academic help available to players, but I've yet in all my years on here to see a school cited as having "bad academics".

NoVa, it is indeed great that your son has a plan. Some of these kids have organized thoughts about their future, others focus no further than breakfast tomorrow morning, but they all want to play baseball beyond high school in some fashion.

If someone did "limit their choices" to public universities in Virginia, that really isn't much of a limit. As you well know, we have a ton of high quality schools, with good baseball programs, either D I or D III-Va Tech, UVA, JMU, William and Mary, Radford, Mary Washington, Christopher Newport, Old Dominion-I'm sure I left some out. The only thing you can't get is oceanfront. Otherwise, a "limit" to Virginia schools isn't too terribly constricting.

Enjoy the ride!

VCU and George Mason

Oh, gimme a break.

VCU and GMU are not "bad academics". I will tell you what Gene Trani told me once -- that while UVA, W&M and Tech were out there trying to claim the title of recruiting the very best and the very brightest, VCU knew that its mission was to provide a solid college experience to the high school B student.

(I hope no one takes offense at that, but that is pretty much verbatim what Trani said to me, not my own quote.)

His point being, there are a LOT of kids who cannot get in to a UVA or W&M or Tech, but who still should definitely strive for a college degree. VCU, GMU and ODU are the state of Virginia's vehicles for providing that kind of opportunity to the large mass of students. And they do a very solid job. In fact, each of them has certain areas where they stand out nationally -- VCU for fine arts and media/advertising; GMU for economics; ODU for construction-related fields.

There are some "bad academics" reputations out there, but I don't want to start a war listing those who fit that bill IMHO. But you can look it up. We have colleges who have flirted with losing accreditation, colleges whose retention/graduation rates are horrific. To lump VCU or GMU in with those is just ridiculous.

NOVA

I am not painting anyone---I asked a question--don't be so freaking sensitive and I truly could care less if you can pay for a 40 grand a year school on your own

Have a Happy Holiday season

Midlo:

I'm not sure if you were responding to me, but I was simply adding to the list provided by hokieone when he was naming the outstanding Division I baseball opportunities Virginia schools have to offer.

My sister-in-law is a proud graduate of VCU, and the extensive dealings I have had with George Mason all have been first rate. So..... I think you and I pretty much agree. If not, then color me very confused.

Merry Christmas.

I used the 75th percentile of enrolled students for class of 2012 (started 2008) (these were average scores for the top 25% of enrolled students) for each of the following schools (note that some schools do not consider SAT writing scores):


Christopher Newport CR-520/M-610

George Mason CR-520/M-610

James Madison CR-610/M-620/W-610

Longwood CR-500/M-570

Mary Washington CR-560/M-660/W-640

UVA CR-710/M-730/W-720

Virginia Commonwealth CR-490/M-600

Virginia Tech CR-630/M-670/W-630

William and Mary CR-730/M-710/W-720

These numbers may have changed some in the last year and one half. Still, the cream is still UVA, W&M, and VT. JMU and UMW have made strides, but are not in the cream just yet. GMU and CNU I am sure are well up over the 2008 numbers, but still accessible for many students. Longwood, Radford, VCU, ODU, UVA Wise and others are still accessible to nearly all students.

The crazy thing about Virginia State universities is that they don't take care of Virginians quite well enough. Too many out-of-state students get priority over kids whose parents pay the taxes that pay for the State schools. Virginia should vastly increase out-of-state tuition--to $30K per year or more for our top schools--UVA, W&M, VT, and even JMU and UMW. California State universities are almost unavailable to out-of-state students because of their high price tag, so why should California kids be coming to Virginia State universities at such a reduced cost? Virginians pay for these schools. Virginians should have greatly enhanced access to them.

CNU, UMW, and the private schools in VA are all good schools and good Div III baseball options (H-S, Roanoke, Lynchurg, VA Weslyan. . .).

I know this is an older thread, but I'm curious about this. How did the cost go down from $34 to $17 at NC Wesleyan? No baseball money from a DIII. So, did your player have academic money or institutional funds? Not trying to pry, just wondering how DIII's get the price down without scholarships.

 

Is this common at private DIII's in that they can find a way to cut the cost in half to compete with schools that offer scholarships or have public in-state tuition?

 

To start with the student has to have the grades. Sometimes they need to fit a profile as well. Many of the LAC's want a diverse culture and therefor target from a wide array of profiles. For instance here in Ohio, there is a DIII that targets kids form California, and their packages may be better than a local kid, all else being equal. I am not talking about athletes, just general population.

 

Kenyon at one point pledged to meet 100% of need based on the FAFSA. My son was not interested in Kenyon, so I do not know how much of that is loans. But if your grades are good enough and you fit a profile the school desires the money MAY be there.

 

Never take the first offer, that is not to say the second offer will be any better, but you never know.