Math or Baseball

you really already know what to do.....the math contest first... baseball second....the math contest stats will get you farther than the baseball stats you will miss.....

Personally I hate math and try to avoid it like the plague but that is a pretty big honor. From what you put it seems like you will only miss one game and if that is so it shouldn't be a big deal. This is something that is for the school and something that can get you recognition on the state level. It may even lead to money for college.

Sit down and talk with your coach and see what he says. I honestly can't see a coach having a problem with one game and I know I wouldn't if it was me.

I strongly believe that you should take part in the state math competition. Of course you need to talk to your baseball coach about it. Your coach may be fine with it, or he may not. Perhaps none of the following is even relevant to your situation, but just in case.....

Even enlightened coaches like coach2709 may have a problem with it. Here's what he wrote in Nov 2007, in the Coaches Tips forum in a currently active thread. "I have to be honest but you don't have to miss practice or games for the ACT / SAT tests. They are given throughout the year and guys can plan accordingly to take them then." That's not the same situation as a once per year state math test, but it does suggest that baseball has a higher priority than optimizing SAT/ACT scores.

I recommend that you be prepared to rebut some possible objections:

• You made a commitment to baseball. Uphold your commitment!
  
• You're putting your own interests in front of the team. We need you at the game.
  
• If I let you do this, some other player is going to want to miss a game to take part in a hot dog eating contest.
  
• If you even let other players know about this opportunity, you'll ruin team chemistry by putting them down.
  

However, if you at all suspect that your coach will be reluctant to have you participate in the state test, I recommend that you bring politics into it. Before you bring it up to the baseball coach, go to your math teacher or other school official, and ask their advice about taking the test. If they encourage you to skip baseball to take the test (and they will if you ask the right teacher), then ask them to be prepared to explain the value of the test for you and the school, "in case my coach asks you about it." A reasonably astute teacher will see to it that the coach gets subtle pressure to let you go, and that will happen before the coach has the possibility of taking and hardening into an adverse position with you. If the math teacher happens to be a coach of a different sport, so much the better.

The idea here is to forestall any negative consequences of skipping a game, by raising the visibility of the issue within the faculty, but without any confrontation between you and the coach.

Math or Baseball...
Please participate in the Mathmatics,
Not even a question.....Tell the coach what you are doing, do not ask - academics should always be a priority. Period.

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Originally posted by iheartbb:
Math or Baseball...
Please participate in the Mathmatics,
Not even a question.....Tell the coach what you are doing, do not ask - academics should always be a priority. Period.

Thank you.

JPontiac: In high schools throughout the country, deficiency in academics generally precludes participation in sports. It is never the other way around. Ever wonder why?

This one's easy..The math wins out.

If that's the day you play Marquette...go to the math event!!!!

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Even enlightened coaches like coach2709 may have a problem with it. Here's what he wrote in Nov 2007, in the Coaches Tips forum in a currently active thread. "I have to be honest but you don't have to miss practice or games for the ACT / SAT tests. They are given throughout the year and guys can plan accordingly to take them then." That's not the same situation as a once per year state math test, but it does suggest that baseball has a higher priority than optimizing SAT/ACT scores.

This has absolutely nothing to do with JPontiac's situation. Blowing off the ACT / SAT so you can take it during baseball season is a lack of responsibility issue. Winning a spot to compete for what is essentially the state championship of math is not a responsibility issue.

I have no idea why you twisted my words around to make your point but it doesn't factor into the issue. The thread you are referring to is a couple of kids who go out of their way to find school functions to go to so they can miss baseball for a week. This is one day, one game miss - not a problem. When you start missing several games then it does become a problem and hard choices have to be made. If I have a kid in this situation who chooses something else over baseball then I support them. They chose what was important to them and I have no problem with it.

Also, telling him to play politics is terrible advice. Why possibly create drama and animosity amongst the staff when all he has to do is talk to the coach? That makes no sense at all. There is a chain of command here and the first link is the head coach. Now if he is a jerk and won't work with JPontiac then possibly go over his head or bring in the parents but there are other solutions that are much better than to "bring politics into it".

I am assuming that Pontiac is a senior---if so he should have a solid relationship with his coach---for me the solution is simple, and I am not a fan of players missing games.

Pontiac sits down with coach and tells him what the situation is-- he is going to the math event.There is no choice

I don't have anything to say that hasn't been said. But I'm one more vote for the math event.

Math!

I would never miss a ball game!

However, I think everyone else should do the Math.

Well, here is another view. Did you sign up for the team before the math contest?

When you participate on a team there are 15 other kids who rely on your presence every day at practice and for games.

Now, if you are a regular bench sitter then I could see you wanting to miss the game for the math contest. But if you are being counted on by a team to contribute towards contest and the TEAM needs you there then I would start asking myself what I signed up for first and am I making a ME decision or a TEAM decision.

Dont get me wrong if you were struggling in math I would tell you to stay home and get the academics straightened out as a first priority.

But you are weighing Me or TEAM here. I always pick TEAM. Because that is what you signed up for.

playfair

The young man is on TWO TEAMS--BASEBALL and MATH--I do not believe that this a ME situation as you term it--it appears that he has fellow students on both teams relying on him

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Originally posted by playfair:
Well, here is another view. Did you sign up for the team before the math contest?

What if he signed up for the math contest first? It's irrelevant.

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When you participate on a team there are 15 other kids who rely on your presence every day at practice and for games.

True but sometimes there are more important things going on in school that would override a game or a practice.

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Now, if you are a regular bench sitter then I could see you wanting to miss the game for the math contest. But if you are being counted on by a team to contribute towards contest and the TEAM needs you there then I would start asking myself what I signed up for first and am I making a ME decision or a TEAM decision.

Whether the player rides the pine or starts is irrelevant.

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Dont get me wrong if you were struggling in math I would tell you to stay home and get the academics straightened out as a first priority.

If some team is qualifying for a state math contest, it's not likely a student on that team is struggling in math

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But you are weighing Me or TEAM here. I always pick TEAM. Because that is what you signed up for.

It's not about 'me or team'. It's about academics vs athletics and athletics takes a back seat in high school.

Zoomby, you can pick my post apart all you want.

Special exceptions in the dugout just dont play well with the rest of the team. The player should be aware of it.

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Special exceptions in the dugout just dont play well with the rest of the team. The player should be aware of it.

Wouldn't the same be true for the math team?

ya, same would be true. pick one sport per season. math or baseball and commit to it.

My son has a game when he is suppose to be a Page in the capital building for students in politic at the Richmond, Va. capital building during a game next month from Thursday till Sunday, he will miss a Friday game. He asked coach before season started, coach said it was alright. Coaches at his school says school work first.


drill

Talk to your coach. My guess is he would place priorities like this:

Family
School
Baseball

You will miss one game, I am sure he will be ok with it.

Do the math.....

In my son's senior year, he had college entrance exams to get out of the way and it was scheduled on the day of a game. He kept his head coach in the loop and even rescheduled the test to an off day and updated his coach of the change a week before the game and even reminded him a couple days before that he'll be out of school to take the exams so he'd only miss a practice.

Despite only missing one practice so he can take the exams, he got benched at the start of the next game and came in a few innings later. My son said he could care less that he got benched and that if he was gonna be benched, he should've just sat the whole game. He knew this was a dumb reason to get benched but he really didn't care since that's how his coach dealt with it. He had his priorities in order and that's all that counts.

playfair

Are you sure you have your priorities in a correct order ?

I agree with you zombywoof - that some coaches may have this rule, and if they do, then handle it as your son did - go do the acadamic thing, and sit out a few innings of the next game like your kid did. Priorities in order.....

I don't think that players can be penalized in sports for participating in academic events. That would be completely contradictory of the philosophy of being a student athete.

You may have an obligation to your team, but you have an obligation to academics first, this will help you to get to college far better than baseball.

.

quote:

Talk to your coach. My guess is he would place priorities like this:

Family
School
Baseball

quote:

I don't think that players can be penalized in sports for participating in academic events. That would be completely contradictory of the philosophy of being a student athete.

Don't be so sure. When cadKID#1 was a HS JR, Coach had one hard and fast rule. "There is no such thing as an excused absence. Miss a practice, or a game, and you lose your starting position. Miss two and you are cut from the team." I am not kidding here, and many of you know the Coach of which I speak.

cadKID#1 missed a game to attend his Grandfather's funeral. Benched for 7 games. We had to go to the AD for arbitration to determine if taking the SAT on Saturday morning, therefore missing a practice, would remove him from the team. This particular Coach was very resentful that our son was the only one to ever question his rule about playing Travel Ball instead of the HS Summer Team.

Imagine the fun we had with cadKID#2 with the same Coach 3 years later.

But we got thru it and both went on to D1.

cadDAD

.

Guess I don't get it. How does doing well in a Math Contest get you a spot on the college baseball team? Statistician?

I am in full agreement about the importance of academics. Is there a scholarship or something that can be gained by attending the state Math contest. If not, wouldn't the high scores in Math be enough?

What if the state Math Contest was held the same day as the state baseball championship and your team was playing in that game? What comes first then? What if it were the state Spelling Bee?

I really think this is more of a personal decision. I know that I would struggle with a decision like that. Not really... I'd go to the ball park and let my math team down! Then again, I've never claimed to be very smart and was terrible at Math!

Here is a question... Pretend that you are the baseball recruiter... Then pretend that you are the head of the college math department... You have two very equally good players, both are equally excellent math students... But you only have room for one of them... One chooses to miss a game to attend a math contest... One chooses to miss the math contest to play baseball.

You are the Head of the Math Department... Who do you pick?

You are in charge of the baseball program... Who do you pick?

Just trying to say that everyone doesn't see things the same way. Maybe not for most people, but I personally think it would be a very tough decision. Think I would make sure everyone knew I made it to the state math contest, but had to miss it on account of having a game that day.

JPontiac, I would definitely talk it over with your coach, but he will probably tell you to go Math. I'm sure you're getting some good advice from others here and you should probably listen to them.

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I don't think that players can be penalized in sports for participating in academic events. That would be completely contradictory of the philosophy of being a student athete.

A friend was benched for not moving a final and missing the last practice before departing for the CWS. Most students are past finals then. A few aren't.

It is alive and well. I know a varsity starter that had a school function during the season this year. Missed 3 practices and a game or so. He sat out the same amount of games. For a school function. The kid didn't want to miss the baseball. His parents insisted. Good parents in my book.

quote:

You are the Head of the Math Department... Who do you pick?

You are in charge of the baseball program... Who do you pick?

Chances are the head of the math department doesn't know the kid exists. The math competition is just a resume bullet for the admissions department. But in the scenario originally presented, attend the math contest.

many times we answer questions like these based on our own values, or experience. i went to the third term of tenth grade, made the honor roll. never went back. i'd have gone to the baseball game.

any math team that would have me on it.........couldn't have been very good.

think about this a moment----as a parent how proud would you be if your son had to make this decision?

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Chances are the head of the math department doesn't know the kid exists. The math competition is just a resume bullet for the admissions department.

RJM-

Really? You're kidding, right?

You don't give the head of the math department any credit. On another thread, you talk about the differences between pubic and private. At a private school, you could bet big bucks the head of the math department knows which kid just won the math contest. That's a big difference.

PS - I believe that at the public school the math chair knows who the kid is too. Teachers are professionals who want to promote the kids -- not build their own resumes. Now coaches, sometimes, don't fall into that predicament, but that's topic for another thread!!

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Originally posted by gamefan:

quote:

Chances are the head of the math department doesn't know the kid exists. The math competition is just a resume bullet for the admissions department.

RJM-

Really? You're kidding, right?

You don't give the head of the math department any credit. On another thread, you talk about the differences between pubic and private. At a private school, you could bet big bucks the head of the math department knows which kid just won the math contest. That's a big difference.

PS - I believe that at the public school the math chair knows who the kid is too. Teachers are professionals who want to promote the kids -- not build their own resumes. Now coaches, sometimes, don't fall into that predicament, but that's topic for another thread!!

Well I'll settle the argument. The head of the math department is the "coach" of the math team. He has always taken an interest in me personally and him and I have a great relationship since he first taught me when I was a freshman. I'd venture to guess he knows nearly all of the kids that wander the halls of our school, especially upperclassmen. He teaches a variety of classes so he is exposed to all different levels of students. I doubt that he is representative of all math department chairs, I believe he is rather extraordinary as far as teachers go.

quote:

Originally posted by gamefan:

quote:

Chances are the head of the math department doesn't know the kid exists. The math competition is just a resume bullet for the admissions department.

RJM-

Really? You're kidding, right?

You don't give the head of the math department any credit. On another thread, you talk about the differences between pubic and private. At a private school, you could bet big bucks the head of the math department knows which kid just won the math contest. That's a big difference.

PS - I believe that at the public school the math chair knows who the kid is too. Teachers are professionals who want to promote the kids -- not build their own resumes. Now coaches, sometimes, don't fall into that predicament, but that's topic for another thread!!

PG presented a scenario: Here is a question... Pretend that you are the baseball recruiter... Then pretend that you are the head of the college math department

I compared the exposure to the head of the math department at a college versus a college coach/assistant coach in charge of recruiting. When I went off to college the baseball coach knew I was coming. The department head of the economics department didn't. I was nothing more than a printed name on a list of who knows how many who chose to major in econnomics.

Depends on the weather........

If it's raining, I'd do the Math.

And, pray for sunshine.

How could a Math contest conflict with a baseball game?

Really need more facts here.

Could you leave in the bottom of the 7th if your home team is ahead and still make it to the math contest?

Isn't there another hard working deserving math team member that needs an opportunity?

Could the math contest be done between innings to bolster interest in the math department?

Could you go first at the math contest and still make it to the game even if you have to hit in the nine hole?

Are you SURE you have the correct date and time for the math contest?

Do you pitch?

If you pick the baseball game, I'd venture to say that in 20 or 30 years, you may not remember what happened that day.

However, I think if you pick the state math contest, you will remember it, no matter how you do.

I guess I would only pick a baseball game if it was tournament time and you were THE difference maker for the team.

From movie Braveheart, edited for context:

And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and participate in the math contest?

The key is communication with both your baseball coach and your math coach. If the best you can get out of the math meet is a certificate that says you participated and your are a regular for the baseball team then, imo, you should play ball.
If you pitch let coach know and he can schedule around you...

Be up front and communicate; and by all means remember that pi are square.

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Be up front and communicate; and by all means remember that pi are square.

Sorry trojan-skipper but pi aren't square. Pi are round and yummy. Especially cherry.

When I talk to college coaches about any of my players, the first question they always ask is "What are his grades like? What are his SAT scores?" They always ask that BEFORE they ask about a guy's fastball or how well he hits. Being able to say that you were honored to compete in a state level math competition would be a plus for many college coaches.

School comes before sports, choose the math competition.