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Taken from a blog:

Yesterday I met two of my friends form my White Sox days for lunch. They both now work for the Houston Astros, Dewey Robinson is the Pitching Development Coordinator and Jaime Garcia is his assistant. They were talking about an article in Sports Illustrated about the Japanese pitcher, Daisuke Matsuzaka, who is now pitching for the Boston red Sox. I had not read the article, but when I got home from workout I read the article. It was a breath of fresh to me. Matsuzaka training habits and his ability to achieve high pitch counts in games and then do a high volume of throwing between starts has caused quite a stir in the closed conservative world of baseball. If you get a chance read the article in the March 26, 2007 Baseball Preview issue of Sports Illustrated. The following are my comments stimulated by the article and reflecting my personal experience and Director of Conditioning for the Chicago White Sox for nine years and as Director of Athletic Development for the New Yor!
k Mets for eight months.

Will Matsuzaka training habits and approach to pitching change the American approach? I hope so, because change is needed. We have put the pitcher on a pedestal and forgotten to train him and then marvel at the extent and severity of the injuries that continue to occur. In reaction to the injuries we have them throw less. We must train to tolerate the demands of pitching. We must recognize the demands of pitching as a ballistic explosive activity and train for those demands. Matsuzaka also does not ice after he throws. I really do not know what that is so revolutionary; we instituted that as a policy in the minor leagues with the White Sox in 1989. I thoroughly researched the physiology of icing then and have continued to follow the research and there is not a physiological reason to ice a healthy shoulder or elbow. In fact it may be counterproductive. I am glad he is getting publicity for that because maybe it will force people to reevaluate icing.

As far as the amount of throwing he does in the bullpen and in long toss, it certainly does not seem unreasonable to me for someone who has progressed to that level. The key here is to progress to that level. Our young players pitch too much and do not throw enough. They need to condition to throw and then throw to condition. Throw anything when they in their developmental stages, softballs, football, rocks, just play throwing games where they have use to use different angles and positions of the body. That will prepare them to pitch. Instead we train them in a phone booth. We teach them a narrow rage of throwing skill called pitching mechanics and lock them into that movement repetitively and then wonder why they get sore and hurt. In essence we are cloning pitchers so they all look alike. There is no model, let them find their pattern and then condition them to withstand the forces.

Throw away the radar gun! The obsession with velocity is the root of all evil. Everyone in the game preaches location and control and the ability to throw strikes, but then judges the pitcher on velocity. No one really knows how hard Bob Feller or Sandy Koufax threw, did it matter?

Forget the argument that a pitcher has only so many pitches in him – that is absurd. The fact that Doctors have said this has lent credibility, but there is no science behind this. That reminds of the argument before Roger Bannister broke the Four Minute barrier in the mile that there are only so many heartbeats, so don’t use them up by training hard!

Here are five rules for training the pitcher:

Build the pitcher form the ground up. You can’t launch a cannon from a canoe, build strong legs

Train toe nails to fingernails – train all the links in the chain to produce and reduce force

Train for power and explosiveness, not endurance

Train the core as a relay center. The trunk positions the arms and transfers force from the legs

Focus on the big picture - recognize that that the shoulder and elbow are the last links in the kinetic chain

Recognize also on this issue that you have many ‘experts” weighing in on this argument that have no background in sport science or training. They have never had to produce by keeping a pitcher healthy and developing a young pitcher. You can look at all the stats you want, but you must know the individual pitcher, understand biomechanics of throwing and pitching and have a principle based program.

In many respects this comes back to physical education. Get them moving and playing. Put the softball throw back into the presidents Fitness test, you will see throwing improve.

I sincerely hope that Matsuzaka has success because it may force the sport to take a hard look at training. Knowing baseball, and the conservative nature of the game I really doubt that any change will occur even if he wins twenty games. Baseball is a game defined by failure. Secretly you can bet that everyone in the game is wishing he will fail so that the can keep doing what they have always done. Spit, scratch and chew.
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[QUOTE]
Recognize also on this issue that you have many ‘experts” weighing in on this argument that have no background in sport science or training. They have never had to produce by keeping a pitcher healthy and developing a young pitcher. You can look at all the stats you want, but you must know the individual pitcher, understand biomechanics of throwing and pitching and have a principle based program.

QUOTE]

I really blame the internet for this. I really admire this post and I also believe that we have many so called , " Guru's", who scare away parents from having their kids throw often. I have been throwing long toss with my son since he was 11 years old. He has one of the strongest arms in this area and he can bounce back from pitching outings much quicker than the older kids. I really feel bad for the other kids because they are being misled and it will not help them in the long run.

Thanks for the post and hopefully more people will think outside the box when it comes to pitching.
I think that this goes a lot deeper than just throwing more. I believe there was an old saying "I know there is a balance I see it when I swing past."

Throwing is a kinetic motion and without training the other parts of that motion just throwing more will lead to injuries not success. Each player is physically different. To cookie cutter a regiment of more throwing or less throwing will do more harm that good.

I agree that kids should throw more and mine always have thrown a lot. But lets not get the cart before the horse, Dice-K is 1-1 in two career starts and just got outpitched by a 21 year old. What is Felix Hernandez's pitching regiment because that kid was filthy.
Certainly agree with developing players from the ground up - whether we are talking about pitching or hitting.

Why not train for both power/explosiveness and endurance? Both are needed for a pitcher.

Is there not a difference in throwing & pitching? Most kids today do throw less than did we oldtimers. But probably more pitching.

Not icing is not revolutionary. Many sports orthos have said all along that icing is to reduce swelling & pain. And is not necessary if the pitcher is experiencing neither of these.

With respect to pitch counts (not directly addressed here, but implicitly involved), I would say the folks who published the ASMI have some background in sport science & training.

As someone has pointed out, individuals are different. Some are capable of putting their arm through more without difficulty. Others are not. Unfortunately, at present there are only two approaches to this.

One approach is to find out for sure which type is a given pitcher. Have 'em pitch like crazy. But should the pitcher not turn out to be one who has the "gift", then he will end up needing surgery and/or facing a shortened career.

The other approach is to be more conservative and use pitching guidelines such as those provided by the ASMI.

And how did anyone ever find Matthewson, the Big Train, Feller, Koufax, Drysdale, et al without that radar gun?!? Big Grin

Maybe it was because they were found to be capable of getting people out, I dunno...
Last edited by Texan
PG: These "points" didn't come from me...I received this as an e-mail from someone who runs a local baseball program (Rick Strickland/STL Pirates, for whom my youngest son plays) and thought I'd pass it along. Rick apparently got it from some unidentified blog.

deldad/trojan-skipper: I'm not advocating anything. I also agree that the long-term effectiveness of Matsuzaka against major league hitters in this country is far from being established. What I thought was interesting is the different school of thought on throwing and conditioning one's arm for pitching.

Peronally, I grew up playing a lot of "backyard" ball (football and baseball), traveling on my bike to meet other kids at someone's yard, a local school, or park to play, always with short-handed "teams." We were luckly to get 10-12 kids together at once, so we played a lot of made-up baseball games, like "hot box" "indian ball," etc. Although I was also on a formal team (playing in what was locally known as "Khoury League"), there probably weren't more than a dozen or so games in our season...with one year-end tournament that could extend the season IF the team "qualified."

My kids have rarely played the backyard-type ball I played...everything now is so "structured"...but they each played more games in their first year of "select" ball than I probably did in my whole career. However, in my day, it seems like all of us threw a lot, particularly long throws from the outfield (or, telling everyone to "go long," again and again, in football games), almost everybody took turns pitching, and the only pitching/throwing-related arm injury I can remember must have been sort of a long-term abuse thing involving a kid who threw every inning of every game for his Khoury League team of 4 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
With respect to pitch counts (not directly addressed here, but implicitly involved), I would say the folks who published the ASMI have some background in sport science & training.


The problem with pitch counts is that the stats guys have spent a lot of time looking at them and haven't found that they reduce injury risk.

That's why I focus on mechanics and proper conditioning.

It could be that pitch counts may reduce the likelihood that guys with poor mechanics (and/or poor conditioning) will injure themselves.
I too, enjoyed this post a lot and sent it on to my son. One thing he pointed out is that Japanese pitchers are not exactly known for their longevity in the game, career-wise. Remember Hideo Nomo? I know he pitched for some years in Japan before coming here, but I believe his career was shortened by injury and not considered long by MLB standards.

I'm sure there are also examples of Japanese pitchers who had long careers over there, but it would be interesting to compare data between the two leagues.
sizzlepop
quote:
One thing he pointed out is that Japanese pitchers are not exactly known for their longevity in the game, career-wise. Remember Hideo Nomo? I know he pitched for some years in Japan before coming here, but I believe his career was shortened by injury and not considered long by MLB standards.


He pitched 16 seasons as a pro. He stopped pitching at age 36. What was short about his career by MLB standards?
quote:
Originally posted by Texan:
quote:
Originally posted by trojan-skipper:
Also remember, we played catch.... they play video games.


I think this is an important statement (and difference).

There is a difference between playing lots of catch and throwing pitches to your buddies in a pick-up game and throwing pitches in a real game.

For example, I threw tons of pitches when playing Indian Ball, but I was trying to bring the ball in fast enough, but hang it, so that my teammate could cream the ball.

I wasn't trying to strike him out.
quote:
Originally posted by deemax:
sizzlepop
quote:
One thing he pointed out is that Japanese pitchers are not exactly known for their longevity in the game, career-wise. Remember Hideo Nomo? I know he pitched for some years in Japan before coming here, but I believe his career was shortened by injury and not considered long by MLB standards.


He pitched 16 seasons as a pro. He stopped pitching at age 36. What was short about his career by MLB standards?



Deemax-
You are so right. Nomo had a very productive MLB career, and thanks for pointing out my mistake. I was actually thinking about Hideki Irabu, who was highly touted when the Yankees signed him and obviously had some arm troubles. Over the course of six MLB seasons, Irabu's career totals are 34 wins, 35 losses, 16 saves, 405 strikeouts, and a 5.15 ERA.
My apologies to Mr. Nomo.
Last edited by spizzlepop

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