Maxpreps and cherry picking

Is that what, "Control what you can control means?"  

real green posted:

Is that what, "Control what you can control means?"  

On my part or the part of their coaches/scorekeepers?

SanDiegoRealist posted:

real green posted:

Is that what, "Control what you can control means?"  

On my part or the part of their coaches/scorekeepers?

coaches/scorekeepers  

I wouldn't assume that something silly is going on.

It could be as simple as having one guy who knows how to do GameChanger and he made it to 11 games, but they don't have anyone to do it when he can't be there.

Or, maybe he doesn't post games when his son doesn't hit.  Or, maybe he changes fielder's choices and reached base on error situations to hits when he is there.

Any way you slice it, HS stats are notorious for being manipulated -- sometimes intentionally, sometimes because the scorekeeper just doesn't know the scorekeeping rules that well.  If anyone thought putting all that bad data on line was going to put a stop to bad data, I may have to stifle a laugh.

Midlo Dad posted:

I wouldn't assume that something silly is going on.

It could be as simple as having one guy who knows how to do GameChanger and he made it to 11 games, but they don't have anyone to do it when he can't be there.

Or, maybe he doesn't post games when his son doesn't hit.  Or, maybe he changes fielder's choices and reached base on error situations to hits when he is there.

Any way you slice it, HS stats are notorious for being manipulated -- sometimes intentionally, sometimes because the scorekeeper just doesn't know the scorekeeping rules that well.  If anyone thought putting all that bad data on line was going to put a stop to bad data, I may have to stifle a laugh.

Yeah, cuz not taking team stats when your kid doesn't hit & manipulating FC's & ROE's to hit's wouldn't be something silly

LOL

Midlo Dad posted:

I wouldn't assume that something silly is going on.

It could be as simple as having one guy who knows how to do GameChanger and he made it to 11 games, but they don't have anyone to do it when he can't be there.

Or, maybe he doesn't post games when his son doesn't hit.  Or, maybe he changes fielder's choices and reached base on error situations to hits when he is there.

Any way you slice it, HS stats are notorious for being manipulated -- sometimes intentionally, sometimes because the scorekeeper just doesn't know the scorekeeping rules that well.  If anyone thought putting all that bad data on line was going to put a stop to bad data, I may have to stifle a laugh.

That is wishful thinking, Midlo dad. The scorekeeper/Dad who keeps their GC account is at every game and every game is scored on GC. The upload of stats is automatic because their GC account is linked to MP...oh, and those games' stats were there earlier (even 2/3 of the way) through the season.

Regarding "HS stats don't count" two things:

• In our league the coaches meet at the end of the regular season to elect all-league teams; printouts of stats from MaxPreps are a big part of the discussion, from what I have heard.  Maybe this player's dad is trying to game the coaches?
  
  
• My 2017's future coach texted him the other day to compliment him on a recent upswing in his numbers. (which he could only be getting from MaxPreps)

HS stats do matter as long as you keep a healthy dose of perspective.  I like using them to see if there is growth or regression in players.  It helps me determine how I make my lineup.  Now that being said - if I am going to put value in them then I have to have someone keep legit stats.  Outside of how I use them they aren't a big deal for me.  Yes they are good for the newspaper to keep up with area leaders.  I believe a coach has a responsibility to keep up with that so our kids can get the recognition they deserve.  Kids and parents like to see their kids name in the paper and if they have earned it then why not put it there?  College coaches don't care about stats and if you find one that does then they probably stink.  Stay away from them BUT it can lead someone in a direction to look for players.  If a college coach sees a kid putting up great numbers then he can start asking around about how good he is, send out a camp invite or go watch him play.  Once he shows up and sees that he's hitting off guys throwing 65 MPH with horrible mechanics then he's buying a hot dog and coke from concession and leaving.  But if he's facing a very good pitcher and looks good then we are onto something.  But to rely solely on stats won't happen.  The reality is that stats are the wild wild west of high school sports.  There are no rules and regulations to truly govern them so who knows what you will get.

I've seen every scenario mentioned plus many others play out.  This year alone, most teams in our league post to maxpreps, some do not.  Each team that does uses different tactics as to what they do and do not publish.  One has no pitching info.  A few have just about half the games posted with no rhyme or reason.  I had a year when I didn't post base running stats because we only had one serious running threat and it would have been way too easy for opponents to use that.  We are in California where most teams post.  Yet, most of the top 15 teams in our division don't post in order to keep playoff opponents guessing.  you can set gamechanger to automatically download to maxpreps or not.  

You name it... competitive advantages, just didn't happen to make time when getting home late from the field that night, mad because they lost and thus wasn't in any hurry to post, etc., etc.  I don't think it was for post-season award slanting.  We have our league meeting tonight and I won't consider the players for the teams that only listed partial games until I hear what their final and total numbers are.   I don't know of any coach that would vote for a player based on a very limited set of numbers as compared to the whole season or at least all the league games.

We coaches do discuss the numbers before voting.  Can stuff get tweaked a bit?  I suppose.  But, once again, most of this stuff takes care of itself.  The rest?  Just stuff to talk about and laugh about.  

I remember way back being concerned with my own whether he would make 1st team or 2nd or whether he would get recognized as a freshman, etc., etc..  Hindsight - doesn't matter a bit.  They are players or they are not.

Went and watched the team play today. Followed the game on GameChanger as the game progressed, so they were definitely using it. The player benefiting from this selective posting of stats went 0-4 in a loss. Guess what...the game's stats did not get posted to Maxpreps. Last game of the season, league game. Shocker.

SanDiegoRealist posted:

Went and watched the team play today. Followed the game on GameChanger as the game progressed, so they were definitely using it. The player benefiting from this selective posting of stats went 0-4 in a loss. Guess what...the game's stats did not get posted to Maxpreps. Last game of the season, league game. Shocker.

 Unless you can access MaxPreps as a coach or have been able to do that in the past, the process might be a little difficult to understand. No matter how the stats get put in, anyone with access can alter or delete them for any reason.

 Personally, I’ve never seen the reason for “cherry picking” or not posting at all because I don’t believe anyone could get much of an advantage from any of the stats MP tracks.

Stats4Gnats posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

Went and watched the team play today. Followed the game on GameChanger as the game progressed, so they were definitely using it. The player benefiting from this selective posting of stats went 0-4 in a loss. Guess what...the game's stats did not get posted to Maxpreps. Last game of the season, league game. Shocker.

 Unless you can access MaxPreps as a coach or have been able to do that in the past, the process might be a little difficult to understand. No matter how the stats get put in, anyone with access can alter or delete them for any reason.

 Personally, I’ve never seen the reason for “cherry picking” or not posting at all because I don’t believe anyone could get much of an advantage from any of the stats MP tracks.

I agree, and my son's school post full stats for Frosh, JV and Varsity and have for years. You still have to come play us, you still have to be better than us to win. Few are.

We don't leave GameChanger fully open because that gives access to spray charts, which are of more value.

SanDiegoRealist posted:

...We don't leave GameChanger fully open because that gives access to spray charts, which are of more value.

 Completely agree that spray charts are by far much more useful as a scouting tool than anything MP tracks.

Our scorekeeper has been marking FC, dropped routine fly balls, and booted infield grounders as hits all season.  They are also a parent of one of the players.  So it may depend on who the player is with regard to how those results are scored.  Equal parts incompetence and bias make for very questionable stats, to say the least.

Stats4Gnats posted:

SanDiegoRealist posted:

...We don't leave GameChanger fully open because that gives access to spray charts, which are of more value.

 Completely agree that spray charts are by far much more useful as a scouting tool than anything MP tracks.

Our old coach wouldn't use GC for this reason - used iscore. Though he would use the spray charts of other teams. I used to do this with travel ball and it was quite useful - especially when you could use several year's worth. However, I convinced our new coach this was an easy fix. I instruct our scorekeeper to simply fudge the spray charts. It's pretty easy. Stat-wise, nothing changes if you simply record an infield single to third base as a flyball single to right field. Just change the hit locations. Woe be to the team that tries to use our spray charts against us. 

The default in CG is that only admins can see spray charts. Doing nothing vs. scoring every batted ball in a season differently that what really happens seems a whole lot easier.

The other downside of that is that on many teams lots of parents and fans follow the game live via CG when they can't be there.

(And the downside of that is that some parents follow the game live via CG when they are actually there, and let you know when they disagree with how you scored a play)

JCG posted:

The default in CG is that only admins can see spray charts. Doing nothing vs. scoring every batted ball in a season differently that what really happens seems a whole lot easier.

The other downside of that is that on many teams lots of parents and fans follow the game live via CG when they can't be there.

(And the downside of that is that some parents follow the game live via CG when they are actually there, and let you know when they disagree with how you scored a play)

Only if you block the stats, which strangely many do not do. Even when they do, you need nothing more than the cheapest $2.99 account to go in and look at the play by play of every game to put together your own spray chart. In fact, I'm doing that right now on a couple of teams we're likely to see. Then I'll watch their first games if I can and compare what I see to the chart. For some kids, it's crazy how consistent they are with a bat.

Hammer823 posted:

Our scorekeeper has been marking FC, dropped routine fly balls, and booted infield grounders as hits all season.  They are also a parent of one of the players.  So it may depend on who the player is with regard to how those results are scored.  Equal parts incompetence and bias make for very questionable stats, to say the least.

Our team is exactly the opposite. You're lucky to get scored a hit if it comes anywhere near a fielders reach. They struggle to give a hit even if it's a misjudged fly ball LOL!

I learned a lesson during son's season a year ago, I was worked up because of the inaccuracies in our max preps stats.  I got to the point where I was almost ready to call the coach and point them out.  Of course I was only focused on my kid, but I'm sure that everyone's were inaccurate as well.   Then I peeked in the dugout at the next game and saw that the assistant coach's 12 year old son was keeping the book.  Had to laugh at myself for even worrying about it.  At the end of the day, who cares what the stats are!

roothog66 posted:

Our old coach wouldn't use GC for this reason - used iscore. Though he would use the spray charts of other teams. I used to do this with travel ball and it was quite useful - especially when you could use several year's worth. However, I convinced our new coach this was an easy fix. I instruct our scorekeeper to simply fudge the spray charts. It's pretty easy. Stat-wise, nothing changes if you simply record an infield single to third base as a flyball single to right field. Just change the hit locations. Woe be to the team that tries to use our spray charts against us. 

 I can see how that might fool an opponent, but then they become useless for you.

pabaseballdad posted:

I learned a lesson during son's season a year ago, I was worked up because of the inaccuracies in our max preps stats.  I got to the point where I was almost ready to call the coach and point them out.  Of course I was only focused on my kid, but I'm sure that everyone's were inaccurate as well.   Then I peeked in the dugout at the next game and saw that the assistant coach's 12 year old son was keeping the book.  Had to laugh at myself for even worrying about it.  At the end of the day, who cares what the stats are!

 It depends. If all someone wants to do is compare their kid to the others to give themselves some kind of self-gratification, they’re pretty worthless. But, if a coach is trying to use them to help make coaching decisions, they can be pretty important.