mechanics

First things first, a still image doesn't show much useful information about the pitching motion. Having said that, I'm going to bet that, given the position of your back knee and foot, you're not getting much contribution from your back leg re: hip rotation. I would expect, just at release, the back leg to be almost straight with the back foot turned over and the toe having dragged a bit.

thats exactly what i thought the first time this picture was shown in the newspaper. i have a picture of me from a long distance throwing in a game yesterday, and i analyzed it and my back leg was down, knee facing home plate and the toe was dragging. too bad it took me a half hour to adjust the picture, etc. and scanning into the computer should be a nightmare so i figured i wouldnt do it. but also, the cameraman was to the side of the dugout in the stands at a weird angle, so the picture could be deceiving. perhaps the ball is well out of my hand already and for some reason its an illusion or something, because looking at it closely again i don't recognize any conceivable pitch that could end up in that formation, maybe a changeup but thats certainly not how i grip it. maybe the ball is already well out of my hand. but who knows.

I'll tell you what I like the most about this is the focus to the plate with your eyes/head.

Stills do show useful info for mechanics. A full clip would be best for breaking down actual phases of your delivery, but stills capture a moment in your delivery. This photo is just at your release point.

This is Maddux

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/mlb/2002/0505/photo/a_maddux_i.jpg

You are losing alot of force and torque by rushing your front side to the plate. See your foot way up in the back? Stay balanced on your back leg and drive from the backside. I cant tell but what part of the foot do you land on?
I would suggest slowing yourself down and letting your legs do more work for you. Pitchers throw with their legs more than they do with their arms.

Justin Stringer
www.doitrightbaseball.com
HSBASEBALLWEB SPONSOR

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
ok how does this look...

I think it generally looks pretty good...

1. Eyes locked on the target.

2. Glove pulled into the glove-side pec.

3. Signs of good hip rotation (pitching arm side knee and toe are pointing down).

4. I don't think the rear foot up is a big deal. It's up because your glove-side leg is stiff and you are leaning forward. It could be that you are leaning forward a little soon.

5. The pile of dirt at your glove-side toe is kind of funny.

quote:

Originally posted by dm59:
First things first, a still image doesn't show much useful information about the pitching motion. Having said that, I'm going to bet that, given the position of your back knee and foot, you're not getting much contribution from your back leg re: hip rotation. I would expect, just at release, the back leg to be almost straight with the back foot turned over and the toe having dragged a bit.

The back foot is not a big deal. As you can see the back knee looks like it has been driven foward meaning he is using his back side. I have watched many major league pitchers lift their back leg before they release. One note worthy pitcher who does this is Curt Schilling. In my opinion this picture looks very good. The problem is, as somebody else mentioned, is that you can't tell much from a still shot.

this is the best pic of schilling i could find:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2002/07/...lg_schilling_ap.html

Most pitchers now emphasize hip rotation over pushing off. Most MLB pitchers will have their pivot foot off the rubber by the time the ball actually leaves their hand. You can get some really good photos of Pedro Martinez on this. He is not built like Seaver, with the thick legs and lower trunk; he relies on a swift hard turn to generate power.

Shep
You've picked the ONLY MLB pitcher I can find who lift the back foot that early. Every other I've seen use the back leg to generate sideways momentum during the stride with a good "rotational push" (hey Cap-n, sound familiar? ) helping to fuel hip rotation into landing. The idea of getting that back foot off the ground early and pulling the back knee forward and inward has floated around but I find that this reduces back leg contribution, resulting in a "dead back side".

How about roger clemens:


http://www.nyyfans.com/photos/20030815clemens-02.jpg

here's josh beckett:


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/060510/483/d8e...4af093ca53462c91b245

David Wells is similar to J H in his picture:

http://u.univision.com/contentroot/uol/art/images/depor.../bb_wells_david3.jpg

http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/mlb/2000/0617/photo/a_wells.jpg

JH the picture is dead on. The chest is coming forward flat over the the plant leg. The pitcher never pushes off the rubber. He has just gone through a 45 degree body angle and the leg is just starting to lift just like it should.

Realizing first that my understanding of pitching mechanics is modest, looking at Becket's pitcure, how can he get a lot of hip rotation with what appears to be a really long stride with the left leg?

Thanks.
Jon

quote:

Originally posted by willj1967:
Realizing first that my understanding of pitching mechanics is modest, looking at Becket's pitcure, how can he get a lot of hip rotation with what appears to be a really long stride with the left leg?

It's definitely hard for ordinary people to do.

Keep in mind is that he is probably more flexible than most people. As a result, as the pictures below demonstrate, his hips are able to rotate well ahead of his shoulders. This creates a tension that will powerfully pull his shoulders around.





He also internally rotates his pitching arm side leg so that his knee points down. This helps his hips to keep rotating.

There is a direct corerelation between flexibilty, stride length, and hip rotation. In the off season leading up to spring training, my son stretches 30 minutes a day to increase his flexibility so that he can generate more power with less muscle resistance in his stride.

His mechanics are incredible. I guess that's all I can say.

Here's a picture from yesterday of Curt Schilling with his back foot up in the air.

quote:

You are losing alot of force and torque by rushing your front side to the plate. See your foot way up in the back?

Lets get back to the real issue here guys. Trying to help this young man with his mechanics. I said the foot was up in the back because he rushed his weight and CG to the plate. My guess is that he can keep the backside back longer if he slowed down. All of these pictures of players that you showed all have good balanced rotation from the back to front which is what this young man should try to work on.

Justin Stringer
www.doitrightbaseball.com
HSBASEBALLWEB SPONSOR

I think his mechanics seem fine.
The only thing I would question is his release point but from a still shot it is hard to give a definitive answer.

I still say you cannot solve pitchers/hitters problems on the internet--you need to see a player one on one--snapshots do not do it--

TRhit
I agree completely.

Shep
I looked at video of Clemens, Beckett, Ryan and Kevin Brown and find that the back foot drags (over onto the toes) and then comes up as a "result" of forward trunk flexion/momentum, etc. Schilling definitely lifts his early. I'm not sure how to post video or images. The lifting of the foot seems to happen (as a result) well after the back leg pushes and rotates. Those images you posted are interesting and I'm not sure why Clemens' foot is up that early but several videos I have of him show it much later.

J H-

Again, I agree with TRhit. Other than this is a very nice picture to hang on the wall, there’s absolutely no way constructive analysis can be taken seriously. It’s pure conjecture as to how you achieved this posture. No one knows if you’re rushing your motion or not, much less correct a rushing motion.. There’s half a billion reasons why you look like this. As a rule, post leg postures evolve from a reaction to the hips, but who’s to say how your post leg got to this position, and in what direction your posting leg will go in the next second, or parts there of.

quote:

Pitchers throw with their legs more than they do with their arms.

This I gotta see…maybe this should be re worded.

The post leg does follow the body and by flying loosely, the body does not deccelerate quickly, but rather, naturally. The pitcher does throw with his legs and his body and the arm is sure to follow.
That is to mean that if you try to throw with just the arm, you will see quite a difference in velocity, control and injury risk. When the legs work properly, the body is balanced and the head is under control, the arm will follow correctly or optimally, to decrease the potential for injury and maximize the pitchers potential.
As Tr and others have said, hard to make many judgements on this kid from a still.

Thanks to all for the comments. I've been so busy reading all of them and looking at the other pictures and trying to see what i can do with my motion I've been forgetting to repost lol. Right now I'm a sophomore in high school. As you can see, I'm a lefty, and I'm crafty and considered "sneaky fast". My ERA is 2.77 and my K/BB is almost exactly 5/1. While these numbers seem good, I've pitched 35 1/3 innings and given up 39 hits, which in my opinion is a lot. Part of the reason is the weak left side of the infield on my team, causing a lot of grounders and short pops that would normally be caught to become hits, but several of the hits have been stung because i left the ball up, Especially the changeup, which has never occured for me in the past. Could the back leg flying up be a cause of this? Perhaps my hips are opening too soon resulting in an earlier release point and causing me to miss up more often than in the past. Let me know what everyone thinks of this. Thanks.

~Josh

quote:

Originally posted by J H:
Could the back leg flying up be a cause of this? Perhaps my hips are opening too soon resulting in an earlier release point and causing me to miss up more often than in the past. Let me know what everyone thinks of this.

Missing up in the zone suggests rushing, which means you are trying to get too much power from your stride (and are interfering with your timing).

Comparing your picture with the picture of Schilling, your timing is different. Notice that your legs are in roughly the same place but the ball is just leaving your hand while it is a foot or so out of Schilling's hand. However, I would expect a problem like leaning forward too soon to cause you to miss down rather than up.

One thing that I did notice and that might cause problems is how you seem to stiffen your glove-side knee as you release the ball (that's likely what is causing the dirt to pile up in front of your foot). You might to want to try to maintain a little more flex in your glove-side knee. It might cost you a few MPH but might also improve your control.

One thing that stands out in my mind is something I learned last year. The JV baseball coach at my school was also a left-handed pitcher. He began telling me to not bend my back knee like I normally did in the past (since I was 8 years old), and drop my arm angle to 3/4. While it felt weird at first, it worked wonders and seemed to be excellent. However, that was on JV. Now that I'm on varsity and clocking a lot of innings for the team, I've realized that just a fastball doesn't work, and I can't do what I did last year. I started going back to the "drop and drive" like I had done in the past (similar to Beckett and Seaver I guess but not that extreme), and my fastball gained some zip. What would I do to bend my front leg more, like you said thepainguy? I have a sense of what to do, but of course saying it and being able to do it are two different things.

In terms of the stride, I see what you're saying, but I don't think I should lessen the length of my stride if that's what you mean. (Oh and PS, the dirt in front of my plant foot is there because it was late in the game and the opposing pitcher and I landed in the same spot throughout the game, creating a ditch)

I am afraid I have the opposite opinion.
I think you are not releasing the ball out front (too early). Get your chest out over the landing foot like you are seeming to do and finish with your leg up high and your ball hand wat down by your calf. Don't try to stand up too soon. Drive to the plate. Use the towel drill to make sure you finish out front and low.
The picture is only a slit second in time and doesnot reveal any real problems. You need a video to show your mechanics.
Get the book "Everything You Need To Know About Pitching" by Louisville Slugger. It will help you a lot. Even suggests corrections to overcome problems. Shows several styles of pitching and is the most comprehensive book I have real.

Shep

Nice clips...If you would like, I will go back to posting as my first board name here, Rat Shapiro, that way we will not be confusing to others. peace, Shep

JH,

Rule of thumb on the Change is to try to stay back a little longer than your FB. On the Change we are not looking for the Velocity, we are looking for the ball down in the zone and with some action. If the ball is up , more than likely your front side is out in front of your back side(your arm). Its hard to see on a still, but this still of you looks pretty good. Back foot will automatically come out of the hole but you'll be surprised as to the result of the location when you just think stay in the hole a little longer. Experiment and try different things, find the key word you can use and apply it to yourself. You'll be ok because your working at getting better. Keep it up.

quote:

Originally posted by dm59:
I looked at video of Clemens, Beckett, Ryan and Kevin Brown and find that the back foot drags (over onto the toes) and then comes up as a "result" of forward trunk flexion/momentum, etc. Schilling definitely lifts his early. I'm not sure how to post video or images. The lifting of the foot seems to happen (as a result) well after the back leg pushes and rotates. Those images you posted are interesting and I'm not sure why Clemens' foot is up that early but several videos I have of him show it much later.

Here is a link to a thread I posted a while back: Schilling. There is an angled front/side view clip of Schilling in that thread that may (or may not) help this discussion.

On a side note... It's never a good idea to reach any kind of conclusion about throwing mechanics after looking at a still image/picture. Video is your best bet.

Jason

Sorry for the thread hijack but by any chance do you have a clip of Cole Hamels Flipp?? I know you've got a bunch and I wanna see this 86-90 lefthander that is dominating pro players

I just remembered last fall fooling around with some friends at the local elementary school one day... one of the guys took a video clip (like 4 seconds) of me throwing a curveball. It's not great quality and through a fence but you can tell by the batter's react and the catcher that it was a pretty good curve. Even though it was 8 months ago and I've gotten bigger, etc., I'm sure my mechanics are pretty much the same. Now the only question is... how would I post the clip on this site?

hey guys im wondering case im also lefty and am in low 80's for a good amount of my FB. anyway im wondering is it good to push and spin off with my back foot, do u know what i mean? also I was wondering is is good/bad/preference with how close the ball is to the back of your head. like this pic of maddux. tel me what u guys think.

and here also

and heres a lefty some of you might know that also gets pretty close to his head with his arm..

I think you should try tucking your thumb under the ball like Maddux does. Push off smoothly and then rotate your hips and you will get into a similar position that Maddux does too. In fact, get some film of him instead of still pictures and copy his delivery. It is one of the very best ever and emulating him is a good way to go.

Hey guys. I have a video of me pitching and I'm not really sure if I do everything correct, but it looks good to me. The only concern I really have about my mechanics is my back foot dragging through my delivery. I know it is supposed to drag, but mine seems to drag more than usual. Feel free to critique the video and give me feedback.

Video: http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=114116&cdate=20060512

ShepFPC28,

Man... You have a very fast arm! I bet you throw GASSS!

Have we seen you before?