Merit Scholarships

For D3's I wouldn't think he wouldn't be on shaky ground as D3's cannot offer athletic scholarships.

For D1/D2's if he doesn't have an athletic scholarship and is a "walk-on" it gets harder - on average there's only a few spots on the roster for walk-ons.

I will say this - had my son's GPA from HS and JuCo been a bit higher, the coach would have been able to tap into more scholarship $$. He received a nice D2 offer after his 2nd year in JC.

Not  sure if this answers your question.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear that I know D3's have no athletic money to give. That leads me to another question...At D3's is there such a thing as a guaranteed roster spot or is everyone considered a walk-on?

My original question is mainly if he continues to receive D1 interest.  Obviously, they cannot communicate with him directly yet.  At the above mentioned tournaments, his coach let us know that he had received several phone calls/texts about my son.  

Many D3's carry large rosters so in general there is a not cut policy, but every school is different. If you are recruited you are pretty much guaranteed a "roster spot". That does not mean the travel team which is typically 25. D1's there is a 35 man roster limit so no matter how good your grades are in the end it just depends on the relative talent of a player. 

His ability to get merit aid will make him attractive to many colleges (not just coaches).  D1 coaches only get so much athletic scholarship money (11.7 divided among 28 players).  For the lower level D1's that you mentioned, academic scholarships are a good thing as long as your son can add value to the program.  The coach would be incented to keep him around because he is adding value, and someone else (not the coach) is paying his way.  For D3s, his grades and baseball skill combination may open some doors to some national D3 programs.  There are so many, many options with D3.

My suggestion would be to set SAT goals based upon his PSATs.  Take some SAT classes to try to get a boost on his next round of tests.  Research the schools/major he is interested in on College Navigator, and identify who has baseball teams.  Research those baseball teams to see if it is a baseball level that fits your son.  Review the incoming classes academic stats for the 20+ schools he's most interested in.  Rule of thumb, if your son is in the top 25% of (most) schools incoming class, he could be offered academic $$.  There are many exceptions.  Keep in mind a highly competitive school is not going to be incented to offer your son a lot of money because it is in high demand/low supply.   However a competitive school would be incented to give your son academic money to help them boost their stats.  It is all about the stats for these schools.  It is how they are measured in their industry.

As far as honors programs, I don't know.  Both my oldest son's looked at honors programs and we only found them at large (D1) universities.  I don't recall seeing any honor programs at any of the D3s we visited or talked to.

Good luck!

Agree with everything Fenway posted, same experience with Honors programs, they typically are in large schools with a broader population of students, small high academic D3's are essentially 100% "honors programs". 

Small high academic D1s are essentially 100% "honors programs", too!   

Yep.. some bigger ones too.

Thanks for all  of the replies.  The reason I mentioned honors programs is because of what I have read about baseball players being discouraged from studying engineering at some schools.  If my son continues to develop on the field and is good enough and lucky enough to be considered by a D1 school with a larger population and higher acceptance rates, he would want to be in a business honors program.  I am aware that the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, and Berkeley's undergraduate programs, along with most of the D3's that would interest him, are rigorous for all who are accepted. 

Fenwaysouth, I understand what you said about adding value to the baseball program.  If I'm interpreting that correctly, if he is offered merit aid only, his best bet would be to choose a school that fits him academically and personality-wise where he is in the top half of the talent on the team. I'm just trying to educate myself so that I can guide him in the right direction and ask the right questions.  I just worry that if the coach hasn't invested any money in him, he will be more expendable than other players with similar talent.  

He has the beginnings of a list of schools and has begun the process of scheduling SAT tutoring leading up to the first test in October. 

Thanks for your help.

Matty,

Understood.  I'm looking at it from the Coaches perspective.  If I've got a player who is getting academic money, and is starting at a position or giving me competition for a starting position that is value.  I'd want to keep that player because now I can invest in an another area of need (ie pitching).   As I look at it, this kind of player gives me flexibility as a Coach.   If the player is not giving me value then I'm going to look for a player who can give me value, but I may have to spend some of my valuable scholarship money to find that player.  At the highest levels of college baseball, these programs get players willing to play for no scholarship money.  At the lower levels (which you mentioned you were interested in)  I think baseball scholarship money can be more valuable in terms of attracting talent.  So, if the college is paying my players way.....I'm all for it as a Coach.   JMO.

Personally, yes I would pick a school based on academics.  Because my kids aren't going to be professional baseball players anytime soon.  There is no shame in that.  The world needs accountants, business leaders, sales professionals, engineers, lawyers, researchers, etc...

My two cents...I think wanting to find a great school with an honors college is a fantastic goal, but I'm not sure I'd want to restrict my search for a 2016 with only the Honors College designation.  It may be that one schools (D1 of D3) normal everyday college  is a better fit for your son than another school's honor's college.  I think what your son studies is going to be most important.  Finding that specific major discipline or interest would be first then I would focus on the best academic opportunity in that field whether than includes an honor college or not.  My point is not to limit your search at this time because your son's end goal is not a typical end goal.  Give yourself some flexibility as you are research these various situations.  Trust me, it took us almost 20 months to finally find my son's perfect fit.  And still there was some small compromises (weather) on his part.

When you do find the school and/or honors college, I'd want to find out how many baseball players are part of the honors college and does the program have a history of honors college graduates. 

BTW...I'm going to have to partially recant my earlier post.   I forgot there were honors college programs at William & Mary, Richmond and Elon...all smaller D1s (near me) and not large universities as I previously posted.  My father teaches at one of these graduate schools, so I can't believe I missed that one.   

This is a very interesting question. First, all coaches like good students. Less of a risk on academic eligibility. Second, how they feel about merit money versus baseball scholarship will probably vary by the coach. Third, yes, personally I would read something into if the coach doesn't want to give athletic scholarship money to your son. From what I've read, catchers are on the higher end of the scholarship money, versus other position players.

I should caveat this by saying my son is a D3 player, so my information about D1s is based on what others have told me or I've read here.

Yes, there is a guaranteed roster spot at some D3s, depending on the coach. Of course it is only as good as the coach's word. Lots of D3s cut players. Some don't.

Junior and senior year are lots of fun, as long as you don't focus too much on what happens baseball-wise after high school. Enjoy!

At son's D3, if you are a recruited player you are guaranteed a roster spot for 2 years. After that if he feels that you will not contribute,(lots a ways to contribute on and off the field) you will be cut.

There is another reason to value the merit money.

My oldest son was a football player and a national merit scholar.  After his freshman season, which went pretty well, he took a hard look the opportunity cost of playing football.  He loved football, but he realized he didn't love it enough to give up every other activity on campus that he wanted to be part of.  Because he had a full tuition academic scholarship, he had the freedom to make a very mature decision without worrying about the financial consequences. 

The overwhelming majority of college baseball players do not get the experience they think they are signing up for when they commit.  Academic money expands the range of options when the reality of college sports hits.

Swampboy:

Can you expand on this statement from your previous post?

"The overwhelming majority of college baseball players do not get the experience they think they are signing up for when they commit."

That is a classic statement, and it couldn't be anymore true IMHO.   One of my oldest son's travel buddies commented during his first Fall week of college baseball practice....."I have now seen the dark underbelly of XYZ and college baseball"   He was referring to a top 10 national program.  Those words will forever stick with me.   I love college baseball but it is far from perfect.  There is a very high price to pay for many  players.

Had my son's friend had the academic options (leverage)  that Swampboy's son had I think it would have been different.  Instead, I think he felt stuck in a situation he did not see coming.   JMO.

A year ago (before my son went to college) I would have been cynical about the statement that playing a college sport isn't what the players expect. After all, I've read a lot of posts. Now I believe it. It is just one of those things it is hard to fully understand until you've been in the middle of it.

For my son, a D3 player, the experience was different, but he liked it. Since his scholarship is merit based, I know he is playing baseball solely because he enjoys it. I recently saw one of my son's friends who is a D1 athlete. I asked her how her first year went. She said she didn't like it but would stay one more year since she was being paid to play.

That's not to say that D1 baseball isn't a great experience for many players. Some guys love it. However, I tend to agree that most don't know the full picture until they have lived it. To a lesser extent the same is true for other levels as well.

And that's how life is, right? We take on new challenges and commitments without knowing the full impact beforehand. Then we adapt our expectations and make course corrections, if necessary.

I don't know the actual statistics but all you need to do is to look at how many Sr's, (or Jr's in the top 50 programs) are left vs their recruiting class size.

How could a HS Sr really know what to expect when you think about it ?For some it is wonderful, for many others it is not. 

This is a great question that I am going to ask my son, just to see his response. 

Or even look at players on roster as Freshman but not as Sophomores.

Before keewartson committed, I pulled rosters from 5 years back and compared.  My spouse thought I was crazy looking at that stuff.

9 months before son is to be on campus, there is a head coach change and five freshman players don't return for their sophomore season (after finding only 2 players falling from the roster in the prior 5 years.)

So no matter how much research you do....things can still change. 

Fenwaysouth, Twotex, BOF, and Kewart have all touched on my point.

What optimistic players and parents imagine as a "normal" college baseball career is extremely rare. Very, very few players earn regular playing time early, stay healthy, become an increasingly significant contributor to the team, avoid the upheaval of a coaching change, remain on the roster for four years, and graduate with a marketable degree. 

The rate of attrition--from injury, cuts, lack of playing time, relentless internal competition, merciless conditioning sessions, non-renewed scholarships, fatigue, lost sense of baseball as "fun", new coaches wanting their own players, old coaches repenting of their own recruiting decisions, academic pressure, financial pressure, changed life plans, conduct/attitude problems--is astounding.

At my son's first school, of his recruiting class of 15, only two will be on the team next year as seniors, and neither is likely to play much. 

I have a list that is slowly growing and coming into focus in my mind regarding college baseball and my 2017.  It is called "10 reasons I hope my son does not play college baseball".  This thread is certainly adding to it.

.... but of course if he decides that's what he wants I will support him 150%.

Let me Add to Swampboy's excellent post.

My son plays at a D3, and his school looses a few players between Freshman and Sophomore year. Sometimes it as simple as grades. Many times it is lack of playing time as a freshman. 

The thing that gets me is many of the players that leave are the ones who get an opportunity and struggle. Maybe they see the writing on the wall.  

So while I am sure it is tougher at a highly competitive D1, It can also be tough at the other levels as well. But as Swampboy said at least then you have the option of walking away and not having to worry about the extra expense.

You missed the biggest contributor of all.

................girls. 

Ah, yes - but without them, you'll have no future baseball players!

BOF, I seriously thought about making girls a separate category, then decided to lump them into "changed life plans."

...and Momof2015 I am sure your Freshmen son will come home and tell you all about that.... say in September of next year. 

Seriously I have seen 2-3 transfers out of my son's program because of this. 

Girls, or future ball players? Hope he graduates first! He's down at Headfirst now, which may help determine where he winds up...

Totally agree.

In many ways it's a harder path than they thought they had chosen, but it's also a more worthwhile path than they realized.

This is probably worth a whole new thread regarding expectations of your (or your son's) college baseball experience,so I will open one up in the next few days when I get the time, but I asked my son this last night swamp's question regarding college baseball and how it was different from his expectations. I don't have a lot of time today to get into it, but he basically said that for him and his friend that "to expect the unexpected" ie: both good and bad things happened when they did not expect it to. I will get into it later when I have some time. 

One of the most level headed kids I know has gone off track since the Spring of this year (he was a senior in HS this year). Big kid, played football. Wanted a D1 offer but was only offered as a walk-on. Accepted a very good D2 offer and was all set to go. Then there was a change in the coaching staff and he completely bailed on the offer even though he had already signed. IMO, he was a perfect fit both athletically and academically at the D2.

Decided to go a a bigger school that he liked better where several friends were at, and just be a student. Went up for summer school and came home every weekend to see his new girlfriend. Did not acclimate to school life at all because all he did was call/text her and then come home.

At this point, it's 50/50 as to whether or not he makes it in college through fall semester. Would have never seen this coming with this kid, so you just never know.

I look forward to BOF's new thread as my son leaves for college next week.  He will be at a NAIA school on a merit scholarship so he's basically a walk on for the baseball team.  I've tried to prepare him the best I can without knowing what the situation will be.  He knows they will condition every morning, practice every afternoon and try to fit the rest of school in somewhere.  I've tried to tell him that he shouldn't expect much if any playing time this year and that the recruited players will be given every chance to make it.  Fortunantely he has a great attitude and has had to prove himself every year on every team he has ever played on.  He's not a gifted athelete but just seems to succeed thru a lot of hard work.  

I'm sure things will happen that he doesn't expect and there will be lots of ups and downs.  Hopefully a lot more ups though.

BOF, 

Very much looking forward to the thread and reading N.'s take on the issue.

S

This is a great question.  I looked at the 2014 rosters at a dozen or so D1 schools on the west coast and found that most had ~12-15 freshman and 2-4 seniors (mostly pitchers).  This was eye opening.

 I did the same thing.  Very eye opening!   Very unexpected!  Is baseball unusual in this regard?  (Have to set aside basketball because of the one and done business.)  I think somebody told me the other day that baseball has the lowest graduation rate of all the sports. Could that be right? Or am I misremembering?  

Some top 10 LACs do have "honors" courses sections. Check out AISS (Claremont) which is selective for Frosh. If yours is a National AP Scholar (8 or more 4/5's on APs) then some schools invite them to upper division level highly academic courses hand selected via professorial interview. Again, common at the top 10 or 15, much less elsewhere. If yours is thinking grad school after sports/five year clock, just as in HS, they look at your Grad School Standardized Tests (MCAT, LSAT, GRE, DAT) your GPA (C- s are a killer) and your academic rigor. Consider Latin instead of that 5th/6th year of Spanish to satisfy the college core req.   As a NMS, your student will receive funds through the school, but with demand high at those schools, it's quite variable. Pomona runs it's own science courses. Merit aid for a D1 is always welcomed by coach, but you must apply with everybody else in the cycle.  If it can eclipse the NLI offer, then it may not count against the 11.7, if "non-recruited" (i.e. parents paid for visits/ food/ hosting)  but guaranteed roster spot ("know" the coach and his offer.) That first 25% is typically for year #1, and is open to review (and non-renew) every season end. Lots of great advice here. Map your top 10 academic fits with your top 10 baseball fits, find the intersects (10 or so) then apply now (if you're a '15!) and go after that merit $$.

Well also TOP D1's must lose a fair number of juniors to the draft. I think most guys who get drafted junior year,  sign, don't they?  They say you have much less leverage as a senior. 

That would be a surprise with all you hear about good grades being a requirement to play baseball in college.

The link below only took about 10 seconds of Googling to find, so I don't know if there is anything more definitive around or anything that interperets these numbers in terms of kids leaving the for draft, quitting their sport but staying in school, etc.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/defa...nds%2B2013_Final.pdf

(table format doesn't transfer - first percentage for each sport is 02-25 data, and second is 03-06 data.

SPORT
Four-Class Average
2002-05 Cohorts
Four-Class Average
2003-06 Cohorts

Baseball 73% 74%
Basketball 68% 70%
Cross Country/Track 76% 76%
Fencing 88% 89%
Football (FBS) 68% 70%
Football (FCS) 68% 68%
Golf 82% 84%
Gymnastics 89% 91%
Ice Hockey 83% 85%
Lacrosse 86% 88%
Rifle 78% 80%
Skiing 87% 86%
Soccer 79% 81%
Swimming 85% 84%
Tennis 86% 85%
Volleyball 76% 82%
Water Polo 82% 85%
Wrestling 74% 74%

I guess if you want your D1 athlete to get his degree, Gymnastics, Lacross, Tennis, Skiing and Fencing are the way to go!

From our perspective the merit scholarship, especially in the private D3 schools are great!  My son will be attending Linfield and basically got a little over 50% in merit money!  It would be hard pressed to get that amount looking at athletic money, and as long as he keeps his grades up, he's good to go for all four years!  Private schools are more expensive, but if you have a smart kid, it will balance out with the public schools, plus if baseball does throw him a curve ball (pun intended!) he still will have to money to complete his major.

So, Mallot's Dad, back to my original question:  How do you know he is assured a spot on the team for his freshman season?

From what the Coach told me, they basically try out every Fall.  I see a benefit for the athlete that is self motivated and can come into fall prepared to battle for a spot vs the unmotivated athlete that is sitting on his athletic scholarship and guaranteed a spot. So no, they really aren't guaranteed a spot from what I hear.  To add another positive wrinkle, Linfield does field a JV Team, so at least they can play instead of redshirting. Another reason to really look at D3 for the athlete with good grades!