Mike Marshall

Interesting, did they provide any reasoning for his shut down?

Nope. Here's the quote:

"Dr Marshall has closed up shop in the sense that he longer is taking or training students. If you go by his complex there is no indication it was a pitcher training and research center. It is all gone. For me, who enormously enjoyed chatting with Dr Marshall and watching his guys train it is pretty sad.

To be clear he is not going away. He will still answer questions on his web site and give presentations when asked.

The best way for the baseball community to put the steroid era behind us would be to induct Dr Marshall into the baseball Hall of Fame."

That's all I know. Took a few times asking the guy about it until he gave even that explanation.

The thing that is interesting to me is how his acolytes are now attempting to revise history.."Marshall is responsible for pronation", his "tenants" are quietly taking over baseball..heck in some circles they are even claiming Maddux was a closet follower who exemplified his "tenants"..I've seen them even claim the sinker due to the pronation charactoristics of the pitch. I guess when all else fails..gotta try to claim something.
I don't think Iron Mike will make the hall..but I think just his MLB career deserves note and mention, he was a tough and great closer. You don't make the hall as a trainer/coach if you have no success though.

Bub Bye-

FWIW, the Cardinals signed one of his disciples as a free agent, but it didn't work out, obviously.

Bballman,

quote:

“Wonder how long his followers will continue to spew”

As long as there are children being debilitated by bad pitching mechanics taught since before the turn of the century and having to defend the truth of the matter against ignorant people whom spew discontent with blatant lies about how they are performed and the history of the provenance.

quote:

“ his gobbledygook”

You might want to get specific here, rather than looking the way you do when you speak negatively about the subject.

quote:

“now that he has apparently decided it's not worth the effort”

He is a researcher, his place was a research center, he is retiring after 40 years of physical study where he eliminated all pitching injuries through mechanical understanding and expertise, apparently you have taken this haughty attitude ever since you first heard about it and really never looked in to it which would have well been well worth your effort.

quote:

“At least one of his followers is promoting that he be inducted into the Hall of Fame for his work”

I don’t think the NFL is going to induct him into the hall of fame for changing the way all QB’s throw the football, even though it was a historical event in sports that relieved many of the injuries QB’s were attaining just as all other tremendous and radical mechanical improvements are like the Fosbury flop, the sokker style kick, the one hand jumper, the dolphin kick and many more, unfortunately the negativity that surrounds baseballs inability to get their collective heads around science shows this will not happen until he is dead.

One of my clients for 4 years before he quit baseball was a direct recipient of the Marshall mechanics I teach and signed with the New York Jets for over 50 million.
Mark Sanchez can be seen throwing the Marshall “torque fastball” on weekends in the NFL. He was throwing 92 mph at his freshman tryout at Santa Margarita CHS just before he hung them up.

quote:

“How in the world can that happen if he didn't even get a student into MLB”

This statement shows just how misinformed you are! Marshall produced an MLB player
who played with Tampa bay after being rehabbed with two UCL tears attained in HS then College and this should not be a requirment to prove mechanics for any age group.

One of Marshall’s Full bottom half mechanic pitchers actually pitched for the Springfield AA/Cardinals this spring, can you name him?

quote:

”Anyway, just thought you all might be interested in this bit of news”

Oh well, you might as well speak disrespectfully while bringing us your take.

7steps,

quote:

“Interesting, did they provide any reasoning for his shut down?”

His research is finished, he only needs time to complete his final findings, finish and refine the pitchers training, mechanics and performance applications book and DVD’s.

JdfromFla.

quote:

“The thing that is interesting to me is how his acolytes are now attempting to revise history”

The thing that interests me is how someone could come to such a sophomoric conclusion
regarding a mechanic

quote:

"Marshall is responsible for pronation"

Marshall only described it and understood it’s benefits, this one tenet when performed
with all pitches including Cutters, Sliders and Curves eliminates many injuries.

quote:

“his "tenants" are quietly taking over baseball”

It’s happening but you would have to be able to know what they are to recognize them!
This is unlikely with your distaste in the whole subject and leaves you very short in the kind of information necessary to hold an intelligent conversation about it with out having to stop at every sentence to correct you about false notions.

quote:

“heck in some circles they are even claiming Maddux was a closet follower who exemplified his "tenants””

Maddux never lived at one of Marshall’s facilities, there for he could never have been one of his tenants.
Maddux displayed many of Marshall’s tenets, one being pronation of most of his pitches and I doubt very much any Marshall practitioner ever claimed Maddux followed Marshall tenets, how could he, Marshall’s information did not come out publicly until 1999 when Maddux at the end of his career.

quote:

“I've seen them even claim the sinker due to the pronation charactoristics of the pitch. I guess when all else fails..gotta try to claim something”

The only claim ever made was that this pitch is safe to throw, why don’t you show us all where Marshall has claimed what you are making up, second and third hand info such as yours is worthless. Nothing has failed and it would take to much bandwidth for some here to write down all his accomplishments, can you name the pitches he did invent?

quote:

“You don't make the hall as a trainer/coach”

maybe you should if you invent a totally new pitching mechanic that eliminates all pitching injuries and allows you to throw as fast as you are genetically possible and have a wide variety of pitches that can’t injure you ?
I guess winning the first Cy Young as a reliever and holding numerous records that will never be broken will not get you there, then what does?
Put both of these things together makes him the one I wan’t little johnnie to emulate.
In my opinion he should be at the top of the list

TPM,

quote:

“the Cardinals signed one of his disciples as a free agent, but it didn't work out, obviously.”

The problem here is it was working out!

In his last two relief appearances of 2 innings each he threw shutout ball, this is the time the MLB personnel found out about the signing and pulled the plug after only 2 weeks and 4 appearances, he was never pulled out of a game during an inning, obviously he was not given the same opportunities and encouragement that the rest are given, same as your response. Then the often-injured traditional pitcher whom he replaced recovered and was brought back in.
Before his assignment to AA he pitched in 9 games in Spring (Marshall and him were invited to demonstrate non injurious mechanics for the Cardinal pitching development crew), did not give up a run and dominated the minor league batters with many strike outs after not having competed for 4 years rehabbing with Marshall from a torn labrum that Marshall told him not to get operated on because Marshall’s mechanics do not disturb the labrum.
The Cardinal development guys saw that he competed well enough to sign him and assign him to AA, which should prove to all of you this thing works and works well. Take a guess at how many Milb batters he K’d.

OOOHHHH NOOOOO MYYYY HEAAADDDD ISSS E X X XXPLOOOODDDDINNNNGGG

I know about Sparks. He didn't last very long. Here is an excerpt from a Yahoo Sports article about him:

"He hasn't stopped. Not after the Devil Rays released him despite striking out 41 over 30 1/3 innings and not after he got released from an independent league for challenging his manager to a fight and not after his wife left him.

Over his career, Sparks averaged almost six walks per nine innings, and in his last outing before the Devil Rays shipped him off, he threw balls on 12 of 14 pitches and found himself on the Everlast end of a verbal beating from his frustrated catcher, Mike DiFelice. Enough signs are there for Sparks to at least consider the inevitable."

Sounds like his unorthodox mechanics might have fooled batters, but it also sounds like he had trouble throwing strikes.

Here is another quote from the article:

"In March, Sparks went to the Detroit Tigers tryout camp for the sixth consecutive year. The scout's radar gun had him at 83 mph. He's certain it was slow and thinks he can top out in the high 80s."

I don't think 83 will cut it in the major leagues. I know Jamie Moyer throws that, but he has pin point control. I believe he also threw harder than that earlier in his career. Radar guns don't lie. Sparks was no juggernaut on the mound and was let go.

I, for one, have been asking all along if there were a way to incorporate some of Marshall's teachings into the "traditional" pitching motion. The answer has always been "no". It's all or nothing. If that is true, why is a traditional pitcher pronating his release attributed to Marshall.

Yardbird, a big part of the problem most people have with Marshall is his and his followers refusal to work within the paramaters of the rest of the world. It's this all or nothing approach with something so radical that turns people off. As far as the "Fosbury flop, the sokker style kick, the one hand jumper, the dolphin kick and many more" analogy, these methods were all hugely successful from the start. They might have looked weird at the time, but they worked. Marshall mechanics look weird, but have not proved successful at the highest level after over 40 years of research and training. There is a big difference here.

quote:

The thing that interests me is how someone could come to such a sophomoric conclusion
regarding a mechanic

I could list out the conspiracy laden sophmoric quotes but it would be endless and tedious.


"Marshall only described it and understood it’s benefits, this one tenet when performed
with all pitches including Cutters, Sliders and Curves eliminates many injuries.

quote:
“his "tenants" are quietly taking over baseball”

It’s happening but you would have to be able to know what they are to recognize them!This is unlikely with your distaste in the whole subject and leaves you very short in the kind of information necessary to hold an intelligent conversation about it with out having to stop at every sentence to correct you about false notions.

quote:
“heck in some circles they are even claiming Maddux was a closet follower who exemplified his "tenants””

Maddux never lived at one of Marshall’s facilities, there for he could never have been one of his tenants.
Maddux displayed many of Marshall’s tenets, one being pronation of most of his pitches and I doubt very much any Marshall practitioner ever claimed Maddux followed Marshall tenets, how could he, Marshall’s information did not come out publicly until 1999 when Maddux at the end of his career.

quote:
“I've seen them even claim the sinker due to the pronation charactoristics of the pitch. I guess when all else fails..gotta try to claim something”

The only claim ever made was that this pitch is safe to throw, why don’t you show us all where Marshall has claimed what you are making up, second and third hand info such as yours is worthless. Nothing has failed and it would take to much bandwidth for some here to write down all his accomplishments, can you name the pitches he did invent?

quote:
“You don't make the hall as a trainer/coach”

maybe you should if you invent a totally new pitching mechanic that eliminates all pitching injuries and allows you to throw as fast as you are genetically possible and have a wide variety of pitches that can’t injure you ?
I guess winning the first Cy Young as a reliever and holding numerous records that will never be broken will not get you there, then what does?
Put both of these things together makes him the one I wan’t little johnnie to emulate.
In my opinion he should be at the top of the list"

Well I'll just use the rest of your post to prove out my point.
MM is responsible for Carl Hubble too and any other guy who ever threw a screwgie or pronated...Yard it just only works if you buy the conspiracy. I don't try to subtly change reality..MM's camp does. I don't need to, I just simply say prove it and it has never been proven. You, Kharma..the boys over on BB Fever (Whom I may add get completely free reign over there to expouse every aspect of his teachings..mostly unchallenged) all use the exact same tactics, have used them and are still standing on the outside looking in. For me, I say it matters not, I've seen quality instruction that has led to professional careers. The shame is kids like that little one in Huston who bought into the false dream and now has to flush the bs yrs wasted chasing it and re-learn "proper" mechanics if he has any hope at all of post HS play. That to me is the shame of MM. it certainly started with dreams of a great thing..I mean who out there will not stand against "arm-injury" but the reality is dashed "hope" and left out when it is too late.
Of course no ones ever been hurt..no one has ever made it..

I did acknowledge his primacy as a closer and player. He was "Great" but so were many who won't ever be inducted, guys like Mattingly or Ron Santo as just two "Greats" that likely won't go.

I see when you ran out of real arguement it, as is usually the case, left you with nothing but to attack me personally. I suspect you and your HS education and jingoist rhetoric may in fact convince youself..maybe your mom, that you are "smart". Good luck with that and your failed belief system.

ROTFLMAO

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
OOOHHHH NOOOOO MYYYY HEAAADDDD ISSS E X X XXPLOOOODDDDINNNNGGG

I don't want to speak negatively of a player that was trying to follow his dream but obviously used as a pawn to prove a point.

He began in AA because he was 28 years old.
His Springfield stats were, I do beleive, 6IP,9H,5R,5ER,2HR,3BB,3K 7.50ERA unless you can prove otherwise. The batters he faced that he struck out in extended were 18,19 year olds.

Below is an article I found, taken from an interview with Williams (have to be a member to hear it). By his own admission he had a long road in front of him. He seems grateful for his opportunity.

FWIW, all I wrote was that it didn't work out, if you read correctly, not negative or discouraging in anyway.

What were they suppose to do, keep him in milb until he was in his 30's?

http://stlcardinals.scout.com/2/865706.html

Perhaps he wasn't treated fairly, perhpas the cardinals just couldn't keep him on the roster and saw teh writing on teh wall, I doubt they did what they did to show up Marshall.

JMO.

BOF,

.”And all the kings horses and all the kings men”
That would be Excedrin headache #1999
You crack me up, Love your latest posts, and keep up the good work.

Bballman,

quote:

“I know about Sparks.”

Then why make a false statement about one of them not making it to the MLB when this is a retirement thread?
This leaves people with the notion that only MLB pitchers are worth emulating for correct pitching mechanics
. So now you have named his worst outing, can you name his best?

quote:

“Sounds like his unorthodox mechanics might have fooled batters, but it also sounds like he had trouble throwing strikes”

I don’t know what it sounds like in your head, how could he have possibly have made it through the Milb? I believe he had over 600 Milb strike outs, which would indicate earlier command, besides one of Marshall’s tenets is to not worry about walks if your not wild because in the end it means your throwing on the edge of the plate making all your offerings hard to deal with. I saw his supposed blow up video and he was not wild.
Here is what happens with umpires sometimes with a Marshall trained pitcher, watch closely?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...xmGA&feature=related

quote:

“scout's radar gun had him at 83 mph”

I know how to calibrate a stalker pro also, that would be the teams scouts who were ignoring him anyway and scouts in the stands unaffiliated had him much higher and the catcher there said he was in the low 9’s, same as when he was in the show and had the the best stuff and told him so, what does any of this have to do with the fact that he played MLB ball.

quote:

“Sparks was no juggernaut on the mound and was let go”

He was sanctioned from pro ball all together that same year after having lead the Rays in ERA before they found out about Marshall, I would say he was juggernauting, Isn’t 41 k’s in 30 innings also an MLB career record? Maybe not, again who cares, he was already damaged goods to begin with from his wonderful previous centripetal traditional mechanics.

quote:

“I, for one, have been asking all along if there were a way to incorporate some of Marshall's teachings into the "traditional" pitching motion”

You should have asked the right people with actual experience with it. You were given the wrong information

quote:

“ The answer has always been "no". It's all or nothing. “

This is an utterly ridiculous notion and has no truth within it. The mechanical elements have 2 halves of which the top half is most important, the bottom half can be performed with or with out a leg lift and the Crow-step motion only adds a potentially small increase in velocity about the speed your mass moves forwards, not much.

quote:

“If that is true”

It is not true!

quote:

“why is a traditional pitcher pronating his release attributed to Marshall”

Because the uninformed discussers pose it as this and you don’t have your BS detector turned up enough when dealing with Marshall disinformation.

quote:

”Yardbird, a big part of the problem most people have with Marshall is his and his followers refusal to work within the paramaters of the rest of the world.”

Bballman, a big part of the solution to simple change through science is peoples final curiosity to expose the truth where the world has dogmatically not accepted positive change from past beliefs at every turn.
Maybe if you could accept a little critisizm like I did you would be better for it.
Maybe if you could be more specific and the reasons why your example is correct then I could understand better what you’re talking about if the previous statement is not good for you?

quote:

“ It's this all or nothing approach with something so radical that turns people off”

Why is everything you say a generality and never speaks to an actual truth?
Do you know what the quasi-Marshall motion is? We can actually do that!
If you actually watch Sparks even Marshall knew that he would have to acquiecse with the useless and injurious gateway leg lift. Fosbury could not, he had to not mix elements.

quote:

“As far as the "Fosbury flop, the sokker style kick, the one hand jumper, the dolphin kick and many more" analogy, these methods were all hugely successful from the start.”

I believe you are way off here, every one those has been met with ridicule and scorn in the beginning and all had an uphill battle to get mainstreamed and since baseball advancement is subjective unlike the exact best measurement sports.
So far we have not been handed the ball, starting in High School.

quote:

“They might have looked weird at the time, but they worked”

Thanx, that’s exactly the way it’s playing out, it seems to be a human reaction to peoples aesthetic repugnancy tendencies with the full Crowstep motion.

quote:

“but have not proved successful at the highest level”

That’s your opinion, If I could strike out Dean, Chile, Garret, Bernie and 30 some others I’d think I was at the highest level.

quote:

“after over 40 years of research and training”

The top half was a tough nut to crack, he had to do it while playing pro and teaching and learning in College, the bottom half work to eliminate the back down injuries has only been exposed for the public the last 10 years.

Bballman would you hand the ball to a freshman full Marshall pitcher if you were the coach?

Jdfromfla

quote:

“Well I'll just use the rest of your post to prove out my point.”

Your problem is in the trying to prove anything. You have no data or experience with the mechanic let alone the truth about it and it’s history.

quote:

“MM is responsible for Carl Hubble too and any other guy who ever threw a screwgie or pronated”

You still do not get it! Let me go over this from a slightly different factual perspective.
Marshall only describes this pitch as non-injurious and has never claimed he taught Carl Hubbel his screwball, you the one saying that is what is in play here and I’m starting to get BOF’s head problems it’s mindboggleing.

quote:

“Yard it just only works if you buy the conspiracy.”

What conspiracy? You keep making up scenarios that don’t exist, don’t mix human behavior with conspiracies.

quote:

“I don't try to subtly change reality..MM's camp does. I don't need to”

Yet this is what you are actually doing, be specific I do not understand what you are talking about these generalities get us nowhere?

quote:

“I just simply say prove it and it has never been proven”

You would have to replicate it to prove it and this has been done at all levels now!
The fact that you do not see it tells us more about you than the real subject.
I have been getting incredible results now for over a decade and it is proven to me.
I can only tell you what has happened.

quote:

“You, Kharma..the boys over on BB Fever”

Everybody is different, nobody is the same. Kharma really hurt your feelings did’nt he,
Let me appologize for him, I’m sure if he were able to respond he would do the same.

quote:

“(Whom I may add get completely free reign over there to expouse every aspect of his teachings..mostly unchallenged)”

Yet they have all been eliminated along with all the threads as was done here also for a while because of disrespectful hate speak that posters like you have always conjured up.
I’m not here for that, I’m here so we can eliminate injuries in youth players and High school and below and then hopefully the adults. Bottom up.

quote:

“all use the exact same tactics”

Be specific you are making no sense here

quote:

“I've seen quality instruction that has led to professional careers”

It’s not only the genetically gifted ones that make it through that concern me; it is also the ones trying create this opportunity. None of the traditional pitching coaches anywhere teach safe mechanics no matter how loud they promote it.

quote:

“ The shame is kids like that little one in Huston who bought into the false dream and now has to flush the bs yrs wasted chasing it and re-learn "proper" mechanics if he has any hope at all of post HS play”

This sounds like a tall tail to me, show me the article.
All my clients must acquiesce (get rid of their powerful (crow step) leg drive to lift their legs and drop in to a stop eliminating powerful leg drive) by the time they reach High school or get cut, this is how it goes at this point in time. All of them go back and forth from one into the other while training and pitching with no problem yet from anyone in ten years.
Now give us this boys update with his new mechanics and his name so we can follow him to see his new outcome. If you can’t this story needs some salt over the Scapula.

quote:

“That to me is the shame of MM. it certainly started with dreams of a great thing”

The real shame is selling a product that produces injurious affects, where’s UL, FDA, OSHA, Nader and the Hippocratic oath when you need them.

quote:

“I mean who out there will not stand against "arm-injury" but the reality is dashed "hope" and left out when it is too late.”

Yet I have many pitchers in proball, high level College baseball and high school now after a decade of teaching these mechanics. You have to start somewhere?
All of these kids are proficiant in the Full crostep motion and the leglifted groin drive.

quote:

“Of course no ones ever been hurt..no one has ever made it”

Here you are making the same claim that was made before and then debunked.
You are also discounting all the thousands of youth injuries that happen before any one makes it.

quote:

“I see when you ran out of real argument”

Making up scenarios that are not in existence like I “ran out of real argument” does not make your false arguments look any more powerful.

quote:

“attack me personally”

That’s rather strong, you must be seeking sympathy from others after saying the things you said in a personally attacking way about others whom can’t defend them selves here.
This is how your camp has gotten threads eliminated and posters disqualified in the past.
Shame on you.

quote:

“I suspect you and your HS education”

All hail to Sieeerrraaa, to thee, ahhhhh what was the rest of that ?

quote:

“jingoist rhetoric may in fact convince youself.”

Look, even though I complained about your I’chingow rhetoric, I never called you a narcissist?

I have physically tested it with hundreds of youth pitchers now for over a decade with fantastic results, I need no other convincing.

quote:

“maybe your mom”

You have got to be kidding me, at this point the moderator is probably at the point where he/she has to decide whether letting you get away with this is worth saving this utterly negatively started thread. I believe the thread can be salvaged if you leave my heavenly mother out of this.

quote:

“Good luck with that and your failed belief system.”

I need no longer believe for I have done, eliminating the need to fantasize.

You need to sit back and chill before you pop a vein and then the injury will be blamed as the first Marshall injury, we already have to go back and put back together humpty BOF’s head so he can participate.

TPM,

quote:

“I don't want to speak negatively of a player that was trying to follow his dream but obviously used as a pawn to prove a point.”

And when the point backfired on them by him starting to eradicate AA batters they had to do something and fast. I don’t think so, I believe the development people actually wanted to see a fair test!!!!
Many of the Cardinal development people now understand better than all the rest from what they experienced and it will hopefully help them eliminate many injuries.
I’m sure Joe and doc realize he was only barnstorming for a while, they could have at least given him both ends of a double header to see if he could have done it.

quote:

”He began in AA because he was 28 years old”

Sounds fair to me, I would have been comfortable with Joe playing up in AAA but I’ve seen many MLB old timers get ready after rehab at even lower levels, that’s the normal course..

quote:

“His Springfield stats were, I do believe”

They are what they are belief has nothing to do with it.

quote:

“unless you can prove otherwise”

And why would I want to do that, I have questioned nothing? Nor given false testimony. This is that attitude thing, you say you are not conveying?
6 whole innings! If I had a son playing in Springfield and he was only given 6 relief innings and was improving with every performance then was released.
I wouldn’t be too happy.

quote:

“The batters he faced that he struck out in extended were 18,19 year olds”

Diminishing high-level batters by their age who are trying to get placed is not a good indicator of Joe’s perceived non-proficiency because of it. They were still high-level batters. I guess the three strike outs and 18 outs he delivered were against real slouches at the AA level also.

quote:

”Below is an article I found, taken from an interview with Williams (have to be a member to hear it). By his own admission he had a long road in front of him. He seems grateful for his opportunity”

Joe is currently going thru his next rigorous training trying to earn his “Trident pin” while suffering in silence and grateful for the chance to defend his country.

quote:

”FWIW, all I wrote was that it didn't work out, if you read correctly, not negative or discouraging in anyway.”

This is appreciated, Marshall says that the Mothers are the ones that ultimately are going to push for and attain change to protect their sons because the fathers are incapable of doing so!

quote:

”What were they suppose to do, keep him in milb until he was in his 30's?”

How about just a start or maybe 27 innings? The Cards and you probably do not realize that when your mechaics are non-injurious you can pitch into you early 50’s, that would have given him a 22 year career possibility.
Maybe even if he was around longer these experts would have asked someone to help them with some video equipment to capture what Joe was actually doing so to learn better how to eliminate the pitching injury problems that exist throughout their own particular system. I still can’t believe ther is no video of this event! It shows you how interested baseball personnel and expert they really are. One good thing though, Carpenter started looking into Marshalls material over a year ago with the use of Marshalls DVD.

quote:

“Perhaps he wasn't treated fairly”

Actually him and Dr.Marshall were treated very well by the Cardinal development people
who pushed for Joe’s advancement? Very smart people. But we all know where decisions dealing with advanced scenarios rests.

quote:

“saw the writing on the wall”

So it was written that he be given an opportunity then it was written that the opportunity should not be taken away, Hmmmmm, I don’t believe you are the right person to be commenting on this because of your personal associations and for your own protection

quote:

“I doubt they did what they did to show up Marshall”

The original object was exploratory with the Cardinal development (very courageous) people, what a great idea, what knowledge potential and possible proprietary strategic position for a while they were putting themselves in, can you even imagine a 3 man rotation with only 8 pitchers on your staff. It looks to me that the detractors trumped the advancers as usual and now at every level.

Your son is in good hands if he is under some of their influence.

A final note on the actual thread.

Marshall is attending many State High school association meetings and will present if asked to by concerned organizations, he is still running his youth comparative x-ray study that he is asking for as many participants as he can get from the public and with the finalization of his books I guess you could say he really has not retired but he does say all of his attention now goes to his lovely wife.
The word is the Washington Nationals are speaking with him, protecting your investments is prudent but I’ll bet they won’t actually take the step?

I apologize for descending to the level you took Yard.
I look forward to the day when people who read these threads take the time to just absorb the material and opine that has been written on the subject, weight it against the evidence and decide on their own.
Study the available vids as I have. I mean really why is it that there are so few? The majority of them being against very obviously inferior talent or as the case of that boy from SD who threw the pronated curve from the temp mound..why is it that there isn't a "body" of evidence? Surely if you fear they'll be blackballed you can black out the faces and uni numbers with a bit of video editing. We see just the one example of the kid from that temp mound and no follow-up showing him slay competition every where they roam. Zounds man you've got pro's? Why aren't the videos available? It's all promise and no delivery over x manys years of the same old tired "tactic" of "you'll see we'll take over it all soon" sort of inferences..and well, Yard, it just never happens. Marshall will move on but those left carrying his sand have nothing except revising history to validify the effort/treasure put into being a true disciple...I can't blame you I guess, it's that or look like a blind rube..whose "guru" jumped ship and got a job selling shoes or something.
Seriously I was being too cute by half I shouldn't have and am sorry.

I was gonna comment, but there wasn't any room left on this page. Guess I'll head back to the parenting thread.

I always feel that a good attitude gets it right back at you.
I can understand why so many people don't take the time to listen or read this stuff.

Anyway YB, I am going to end this because your responses are just too complicated and just too long.

The writing on the wall is that most MLB teams just do not give most a long time to prove themselves. Yes I agree perhaps a few weeks was unfair.

Best of luck to Joe Williams.

FWIW, I do hope that somewhere along the way you have contributed to the HSBBW ($).

You use a lot of bandwidth for your agenda.

Ooooooo Noooooooooooo..not another Yardbird pooooooossssst.......BooM

Holy ****!

Marshall was very successful...Successful in teaching his followers double-speak.

I have heard nothing but excuses from his followers. There are no excuses in baseball.

Perform or someone that does it better will get the job.

Mike Marshall is about as "polarizing" a personality as there is in the sport. It seems you are either a "cult member" or a naysayer. But does he have a story to tell about preventing pitching arm injuries or not? Certainly, he's lived it, and researched it thoroughly enough to warrant some credibility. For the record, I don't like his throwing motion and we never totally adopted it.

It looked for a short period there, that "Prime" might want to follow his "pitcher body type" and become a pitcher. Dad (Prime9), saw it as his duty to protect his arm as job #1, and teaching pitching as job #2. So I tried to find out as much as I could. I read all Dr. Marshalls stuff. We even visited and met him a few years ago during our annual Spring Training trip. We spoke with him, watched his "boys" train. He spent a great deal of time with us and was very gracious. It was fascinating theatre! From his published research and what we saw and heard, we gleaned what we thought would work for us and what we thought made sense. The same as I would with any other learning source (Coach, Instructor, trainer, etc.). He was a very interesting guy and seemed from our conversation to be a "Researcher" first and baseball guy second. His passion was "preventing" arm injuries, not putting a pitcher in MLB (although I'm sure he would love to say "I told you so").

Anyway, we used and still use most of his training facilitators (iron balls, wrist weights; 120 day cycle) and throw daily. That's been 3-4 years now. My son pitched some but never full-time as it never became his passion (recruited as a Hitter). But, as a result of what we learned, HAS NEVER had even a "sore" arm AND has by far, the strongest throwing arm on any team he's played on or against. Some base components of a healthy throwing motion, as they relate to how position players throw, we also use!

So, we didn't join the Cult but we did get some good stuff and met an interesting Baseball guy in the process!

There are positive things to be gleaned from all the pitching and hitting gurus provided you know how to decipher the good from the bad

TR

Great Advice...i wish our goverment officials would take the advice when trying to develop economic policy..instead of trying to pull one big lever ( for example "go after Banks") we need to pull all levers available to us just a little...take a little from all ideas...

I always like to get my son instruction from a variety of coaches and then told him to figure out what works and what does not...