Minor League Poverty

I have a friend whose sister has 3 under 5 and husband has a great job and she got diapers and formula.

That was here in FL.

Glad to hear everyone is OK!

Out of curiosity, what helps the teams determine how much to give a player for a bonus?  I understand the whole slot thing, but looking through the draft signings, I saw some things that make me wonder. There's a kid my son played against that got drafted in the 6th round. Signed for $1.5 million - $1.23 million over slot. And he's unable to pitch right now due to having had TJ surgery earlier in the year. Then I see other guys signing for hundreds of thousands under slot in the same round. I'm sure there's a rhyme and reason for it, but there's a huge amount of swing in it all.

Must be another program.. WIC is nutrition only 

JH and PG may be better to answer that question.
But keep in mind there are many variables.  Age,  future projection, tools, how ready is the player to contribute and other options ( ex.signed at a top bb program).

 

Every draft pick is a vulnerable asset with a certain amount of risk and a certain amount of reward involved. That determines a player's draft position and signing bonus - both relative to his value as determined by the team. Signability is rooted in a similar assessment process, except the player is weighing the opportunity cost of other options (for example: a college scholarship).

 

I can't speak to the specific player you mentioned, but everyone is sort of case-by-case. If something confuses me in the game I usually try to revert back to economic (which was my college degree) terminology. It's tough to think of human beings as assets sometimes, but it's the reality of the business. The economic analysis helps me understand processes like that.

 

       
       

That could be. He was signed to a top baseball school. But still, as he is still recovering from TJ, that seems like a lot. After looking a little, this team signed their 1st round pick for over $1.4 million under slot. That team must have had a bunch of extra slot money sitting around.

bballman,

 

I'm guessing this is the player you are referring to.

http://www.perfectgame.org/Pla...ofile.aspx?ID=336351

 

He was a definite 1st round candidate before the injury.  One of the best arms in the country.  Not your typical 6th rounder.  It was probably going to take a lot of money to sign him.  I'm sure the club knew what their first pick was going to cost and saved money to go well over slot on some high ceiling HS pitchers. The pitcher above has a very high ceiling and could turn out to be a big bargain.  They simply took a chance and got a first round talent in the 6th round and worked it into the budget.

Yes, that's him. And that makes sense. 1st round talent, dropped to 6th round because of the injury, but still got 1st round money. Hope he recovers and does well.

And he throws 99+

Just thought I'd add a few details on the economic state of players at the low levels who are still in their initial contracts.

 

Courts have held that because players are under multi-year contracts, which require them to be at the beck and call of the clubs 24/7/365, they are not able to claim unemployment during the off season. (Note that one of MLB's defense to the lawsuit is that the industry is "seasonal" and, therefore, exempt from the minimum wage. Compare this result to teachers (who in some states can get unemployment in the summer; life guards and ski instructors who can also receive unemployment in the off season.)) MLB is able to deny unemployment because it's lawyers drafted magic words into the milb contracts for players under their draft contracts.)

 

The inability to get a bridge cash flow (unemployment) is compounded by the difficulty on finding an employer who is willing to hire and train a guy who is only able to work five to six months a year (and who needs to work out two to four hours each day).

 

Host families are entitled, and in many cases, accept rent from players. Clubs set the maximum amounts and host families can decline the payment. So, out of that $1,000 per month in wage (less FICA and Medicare)s, I know of players who are forced to pay $300 per month to their host families. To add to the inconvenience, ATMs dispense

less then that per day, so it takes two days to get that cash. (As a side note, I wonder how much of that rent is declared by the recipients.)

 

Players who do not have generous agents also must supply their cleats and gloves. (Hard to play barefoot and catch bare handed.) Those cleats, for the less well off players who can only afford a single pair, really smell by the end of the season - but spending a significant portion of their take home pay on a second pair is out of reach for some. Play a game on a wet field early in the season, and those shoes become toxic very soon. (Colleges give their players multiple pairs; MLB can't afford that luxury.)

 

A player must be available 24/7 for drug tests. Therefore, a player must inform the club about all travel plans (vacation) and be available - even on vacation - for those tests. Miss the test and you get an unpaid vacation. (Rumor has it that Hawaiian players are really subject to testing during the off-season because the testers can write off the cost of their Hawaiian vacations - but that is merely rumor.)

 

A player must be aware of which supplements  - from Flintstone vitamins to protein - he can consume. One slip up in reading a label can result in an unpaid vacation.

 

My point here is not to whine about how hard it is to be at the low levels (and the general public sees the product in front of the screen, not the behind the scene preparation); my point is to illustrate how MLB owns them 24/7/365 but claims that they don't need to pay them the same wages as a fast food worker. 

Goosegg,

 

I understand what you mean, but MLB does not "own" any player.

 

In most cases the worst thing that happens in the players mind is called a "release".

 

This is when the MLB club no longer believes the player is worth the small or large amount they are paid. Players can quit anytime they wish, yet not many actually quit after one year of being paid the minimum.

Goosegg,

You have painted a pretty bleak picture.

Everyone knows (or should) know that life in milb as a late sign can be difficult for many. Each and every player should know what is ahead of them when they sign their "indentured slave contract". 

 

That is why I always suggest to those that ask, go to college, get a degree, just in case things don't work out. Have a back up plan. Understand that most players do not get large bonus.

I do have to agree with PG on his last point.

As bad as you make it sound, there are hundreds of players that live in this poverty but don't leave the game unless someone tells them to. 

 

Even then, for many, they try to get into the independent leagues, which pays even less, for yet another chance to get back into that life of poverty.

 

Anyway that you can explain that?

What I meant was that if it was soooo bad, then why when players are released do they try to get back into the game sometimes via a league that pays even less.

 

 

Calling it an "indentured slave contract" and then recognizing that some employees continue to be employed in such a manner does not make the practice of the "indentured slavery" acceptable.

 

I was joking, he was making it sound like the players are slaves!

 

What did he say that was untrue?

 

I didnt say what he said was untrue. I was suggesting that if it were so bad, then why do players still come back year after year?

 

If you want to debate this send a pm.

 

There are four pages of debate here that back my stance on the issue pretty well. I don't really wish to further continue in private. I'm surprised at the sources of defense of the system here, that's all.

 

Am not in defense of the system, I agree they should be paid more,  just wondering if it is so bad why do players return year after year or why they keep trying to get back in the game if the pay isn't enough?  

 

Getting drafted by a specific team is like going to college, the better programs, the better teams make life easier for you, do your homework, ask the scout questions before you sign. Where will I go first, where are the farm teams located, etc.

 

The testing in the off season was for a reason. I as a parent of a milb was glad that was in place because the temptation is too great for everyone (even for the bonus babies).

Everyone has an opinion, but no one can answer a question?

 

Have seen many many players who did not receive a very good bonus, have in the off season manage to make money (using their college education), give lessons, etc.

 

They made it work. If it was so terrible why did they not use their college education, not take a job with a better opportunity to make more money?

 

I am very very sorry, I do not feel badly for the very late round pick out of HS who took 10K to go off to live his dream. If you have what it takes, the talent, the drive you can only get better. Go to school, then after 3-4 years you might have a better option, a jump start on your education.

 

In other words educate yourself in life in the minor leagues. Then you wont be surprised.

 

 

Am not in defense of the system, I agree they should be paid more

Then why do you keep trying to rationalize it?

 

 just wondering if it is so bad why do players return year after year or why they keep trying to get back in the game if the pay isn't enough?  

You'd have to ask a specific person about their specific situation. However, I assure you that the majority would explain that baseball is what they do best. It's not their fault that they do not get paid legal minimum for the skillset they choose to pursue. Not to mention, given that people are free to choose their own employment in the United States, it's very ironic to say that someone must choose to pursue something they don't wish to pursue because the economic system in place doesn't allow for them to live on their skillset.

 

Getting drafted by a specific team is like going to college

This is a ridiculous statement, so I won't even copy and paste the rest of the sentence. You can choose where you go to college, you can't choose where you get drafted. You can switch colleges, you can't switch organizations. Getting drafted is literally nothing like choosing a college.

 

Have seen many many players who did not receive a very good bonus, have in the off season manage to make money (using their college education), give lessons, etc.

 

"I've seen players that are able to supplement their criminally low-paying full-time wages with other jobs, so therefore it's OK for everyone."  Anecdotal, not evidential. Not a reason to defend the system.

 

They made it work. If it was so terrible why did they not use their college education, not take a job with a better opportunity to make more money?

See my second answer above. 

 

I am very very sorry, I do not feel badly for the very late round pick out of HS who took 10K to go off to live his dream. If you have what it takes, the talent, the drive you can only get better. Go to school, then after 3-4 years you might have a better option, a jump start on your education.

 

Not everyone has access to, or the ability to pursue, or the desire to pursue, a college education. And, given that a college degree is not a prerequisite for employment in professional baseball, suggesting that getting one is the only way to "survive" this full-time employment is a great example of the exact problem with the system.

 

In other words educate yourself in life in the minor leagues. Then you wont be surprised.

Educating oneself does not raise one's salary.

 

 

 

Sorry, TPM. Your argument holds no water. You're contradicting yourself at every turn and providing anecdotal examples that aren't relevant to the matter at hand at all. I don't really know what else to say.

 

 

Also, I don't know why people are ignoring the fact that a significant portion of minor league baseball is made up of people that did not get drafted and are from other countries, with entirely different socioeconomic and educational history...

 

Me too.

not defending the system. 
I have stated players should get more money.
I just dont feel its as bad as some have made it out to be. Perhaps to those who feel they are entitled to better...or it might cramp their lifestyle...they might. This job is a way of life. Very difficult. You sacrifice. Even when you make more you sacrifice. 
As for foreign players , as I stated that is a whole other issue.

 

This would go for those foreign players as well who play in this country.  What a player decides to do with what they earn is irrelevant just as it is with any other employee (e.g. some young people earning only a minimum wage are able to live with their parents and save to get a good start on their life).

 

Baseball is a great part of the entertainment industry it's big enough it should be able to easily take the high road rather than any other.

I dont disagree.
Its not gonna happen especially when there is another guy waiting to take your spot.  I know that doesnt make it right. Its not designed for one to make a career in milb. You have a very short time to make it work.

I understand you don't disagree.  But you keep coming up with things like this as if it's different from other jobs.    There are people waiting to take your spot if you're a parking lot attendant, money changer or whatever.   You see?

 

 That is again, really irrelevant.   You see, the same might be said of a farm worker picking lettuce out of a field.  If they're not able to produce at a certain level, there's always some there ready to take their place.  But at least while they ARE working, they get the minimum wage set by local government that is applied to ALL workers in all fields of endeavor (except Baseball ).

 

So how do you place a minimum hourly wage on milb?
Minimum wages are not the same in every state. How do we determine what is fair?  If you play in CA you get more than you do in FL?
Maybe they should have an american league winterball.  You know let the guys play year round like they do in the dominican or venezuelen leagues so they can get better and make some more money.  Afterall, its not a year round job. But wait...most guys are pretty tired and just want to go home and have nothing to do with bb.
Give me a plan.

BTW what states pay teachers unemployment.

Do it just like any other business would do it when they have employees in various state.  I don't see it as needing to be special for baseball.  Yes, that means some players will get paid different than others at this lowest level, but this is often reflected in cost of living in the various states or counties.

 

Imagine the players on Low or High A in an area like Silicon Valley where the lowest rent for a 600SqFt 1B1BA runs around $1,200 mo.   Yeah, I know. . . the player can always take the charity of a sponsor family. . .and in this area of CA, that's usually what happens.

 

Remember, we're really only talking about those players at the very bottom of the pay scale.  So, we're not talking about ALL Milb players.

 

 Until a player is promoted to the next pay level above what's equivalent to minimum wage level, the player gets paid during regular season AND if playing when ask to play at other times (e.g. Extended Season).   It's all really very simple and with the computer systems HR departments have these days, it's a breeze to control.

 

Unemployment???

 

As far as I know when teachers are let go, they are "unemployed" in any state and they get unemployment payments.   But, if you're referring to the summer breaks as being "unemployed", then I'd say that it's NOT a time for them to receive unemployment money as their salaries should be such that it takes that into consideration.  I'm not aware of any full time teacher's salary anywhere that their total annual salary is equal to or less than what 2080 hrs at minimum wage might be. 

Goosegg mentioned in some states teachers get unemployment in summer. Maybe I was wrong.
So how long will a milb player remain in the lower levels?  Its very expensive here in jupiter to live as well. The cardinals make arrangements for players to live at special rates so its affordable.  So do the Marlins. The tigers have their  GLC and high A teams live in dorms.  The pirates I believe do the same.  Most of sons friends who were drafted out of college all had living arrangements first season. Son lived with a host family in ss penn league. The next season he had to make ends meet in jupiter.  He had to live on his paycheck like everyone else. Here in FL we make half of what everyone else does up north or in california.  1B1B in the 1000 range as well.
There are questions to ask especially for those leaving HS before you sign.
But most people dont. They are too excited to think of anything else but their son on the ML field.  Some have no clue even where their sons might spend the next 1-4 years of their lives.  They dont care.
I get what you are sayin.  I just dont feel badly for anyone.

Shouldn't you not want other people to have to go through the hardships you went through? Or other people went through? There is a strange lack of empathy for an insanely demanding and difficult job.

Yes. . . a shortage empathy AND compassion or even sympathy.

OK, you've made that very clear.   

I'm not sure that anyone here is saying minor league players are paid well enough.

 

We can talk and argue all we want, but what is anyone here going to do to change it.  Does anyone here feel so strongly about this that they will take it to Park Avenue?

 

If not, it is what it is.  Nobody is playing because of that monthly paycheck.  There would be just as many players if they were all volunteers. Players are not equal, the monthly check is one thing, but clubs invest millions in some players and very little in others.  There are no multi million dollar bonus babies working in the fast food industry.

 

To claim others don't get it is simply a matter of not knowing enough about who your talking about.  I have had two sons go through "Minor League Poverty". It never dawned on me they were being taken advantage of or suffering. They understood what it was about ahead of time. Scouts need to be prepared to sign kids up for this poverty level existence. Nobody grows up dreaming about flipping burgers at the local fast food joint.

 

Why and how, other than minimum wage, do we compare working at a fast food chain to playing professional baseball. What type of benefits, insurance, enjoyment do these fast food places offer?  What is the best possible future in that company? Manager? Do kids travel long distances at their own expense to try out for one of those fast food jobs? Please lets quit comparing playing professional baseball to a fast food job.

 

Bottom line... At this time, the entry level position in professional baseball includes being under paid in comparison to other professions.  Should it pay better, YES! But as of now it does not!  Obviously no one is hiding the fact that first year players make very little money.  Do I wish they would be paid more? YES, I believe everyone here thinks they should be paid more.  Now what are we going to do about that? Maybe we can boycott baseball and end up chasing even more kids away from the game. Maybe these former players will accomplish something through the legal system. But after having two boys live that life, I have no complaints. I wish more kids could get the opportunity. It is what it is.  Complaining on a message board isn't going to change it.  

 

I have no interest in chasing people away from the game.  We all know players don't get paid much at the lowest levels and we all wish they were paid more. It has been going on forever... So now what? Is it right? Guess it must be OK seeing they have been doing it for so long. Do we wish it were different, damn right we do!  What's next?

PGStaff- I see this as a discussion, not complaining. For some it might be educational. The minor league process is not a big topic of conversation for most people. I think a discussion on the topic is a good thing.

 

What confuses me the most about the lack of empathy I'm noticing here is something you alluded to in your post…and it might be more of a disconnect in interpretation than a disconnect in opinion. The perceived lack of empathy revolves around the fact that there really isn't anything to be done at this point in time to quell the financial issues involving minor league baseball. I don't believe any single person here has the power to influence such a change, but I don't believe discourse on the matter is a bad thing either. To acknowledge that the way things are done may be inappropriate and to ignore that issue is, to me, of far greater concern than people voicing that the issue should be addressed. Just because something has happened a certain way doesn't mean that it should be dealt with as is.

 

I'm not sure how the issue would be addressed. Certainly the leverage dictated in the CBA does not bode well for minor league representation. For the record, I'm a proponent of many of the facets of the current CBA. I think the MLB revenue sharing program and salary boundaries are probably the best among major American sports. There's certainly more parity in MLB than there is in other sports. 

 

Another issue to be addressed is the question of how much a minor league player is truly worth to an organization. Surely, with most organizations having overseas affiliates, several short-season affiliates, and at least four full-season affiliates, that is the largest minor league system of any major professional sport in America by a lot. That creates distorted profit margins not equally distributed amongst the organization (rightly so, given the entertainment value of MLB in comparison to MiLB). While we can sit here and state that minor leaguers are unfairly paid, it's 

1) difficult to come up with even an estimated figure of value,

2) even more difficult to effectively address the issue.

 

I only disagree with your post on a few points, PGStaff. First was the notion that discussion on this topic is a waste of time, which I argue on the contrary. Second is the notion that comparing an example of a fast food employee is not the same as a minor league baseball player. From an economic standpoint, one can simply say "Profession A" and "Profession B." The vocation is irrelevant when discussing minimum wage (including such benefits you outlined). Each occupation has similarities and differences, and each occupation has a minimum wage scale by which to abide.

 

I 100% recognize the fact that none of us here are capable of doing anything to address such issues. But acknowledging the truth in the matter is the first step to tweaking things appropriately. I'm well aware that many players are able to live comfortably on their salaries. I'm well aware of the dream and the monetary reward(s) at the highest level. I'm also aware of the struggles and difficulties that come with minor league lifestyle, as it is part of my job to have knowledge of such things. Addressing the fact that these issues exist doesn't take away from recognizing the realities of the game. I think discussion of this is a good thing. 

 

I completely agree with PG and would offer that, if given the choice as an "either or" situation (play for free or not play due to an unfair pay scale) I would wager my son and every single one of his professional ball teammates would take playing the game they love for free.  Honestly, they don't know what they don/t know and they think they actually have things really good . . . they think a Holiday Inn Express and $15 for dinner is livin' large.  Also, hearing what some of their former teammates are doing (real world jobs at admittedly a lot more money) makes them feel like THEY have the best end of the deal and most of their former teammates would give up their well paying job for the same opportunity to chase the dream.  

I think the above is much more realistic than gooseggs post.  How many of us here have stated our kids would play for free for the chance to follow their dream?  The money thing actually gains greater importance when the player is released or never given the chance. Before that most people are happy with the situation.  Most will look back and say they wouldnt have done it any other way. 
My argument is that it is not as bad as some are making it out to be.  I may not be in the businessnof baseball but having a player who has lived it for 7-8 years you understand.

BTW the story about the cleats is a bit dramatic.

I understand that this discussion is more about the first level players.  If a player is really good he wont be there too long. The only reason he may is that he gets hurt. More than likely if that happens in low level you get sent back to rehab at the spring facility.  There you live for free and still get a paycheck. I do have empathy for the player that spends time on the DL for any reason.  That is the biggest reason why they end up not making it to ML.
I did say it is a good discussion.  I always believe a player and his family should do their homework.  And FWIW you will get more honesty from those that have lived it than those who have not.
Honestly one is better taking the college route first than being a late HS sign.  This  might avoid that dreaded milb poverty goosegg has described (you know that indentured slavery being "owned" by MLB). 
For those with no sense of humor that was a joke!

My points were not to convey that a player, given a chance, NOT pursue the dream.

 

My points were to give information to those who see what is taking place on the field and mistakenly extrapolate that to the entire life. There is no question (to me at least) that living this life at the age these players live it richly adds to their experience and character. It grows them, matures them, adds to them; it is good, very, very good from the perspective of collecting life experience.

 

To TPMs point, while the decision to turn pro out of HS is a personal and unique one (dictated and shaped by personal values, goals, and ability), for MOST college is probably a better choice. (Leaving for another discussion whether power baseball colleges provide the educational opportunities which maximize a student/athletes non baseball potential; after all, in college, baseball can be essentially like a full time job.)

 

But, even those who "do their homework" have no real control over the process. You really can't control which organization drafts you (ask Aiken, Appel, and other elite players) (Although the pay is no different until your initial draft contract ends.) And, you are "owned" by baseball should you want to stay in baseball. You can be sold, traded, or discarded; just like a used car, and unlike any other non-sports profession. (I wonder what opinions would have been during the Curt Flood era which challenged baseball's right to forever own a player. I assume many would have said, "suck it up or quit." )

 

In all other industries, supply and demand dictate pay (subject to minimum wage laws).  Low supply of workers; employers increase wages. That is the nature of the capitalistic free market. Baseball is not an industry where someone shows up ready and willing to work and is hired; baseball is an industry which has incredibly difficult prerequisites, developed over a decade (on the nickel of someone other then baseball) of hard, hard work and sacrifice. Basically, even if not drafted, a player who can pique the interest of a club gets a job - there is no surplus pool of able workers (there is a huge pool of willing workers).

 

I think we all agree that many would give anything to have the chance to play. But baseball doesn't want those people (as earnest as they are).

 

Is there any disagreement that those that are selected because of their perceived potential, should get paid minimum wage?

 

(TPM, what was so dramatic about the vignette about the cleats? It's true and was simply illustrative of the life.)

 

 

As far as discussion on players from other countries are you all aware that their salaries are regulated by INS?
I was not aware which means that the 1100 per month we are talking about  more than likely for  american born players who,  by the way , definetly have more choices!
Yes they definetly can go work at MCDonalds for more money in many states!!!
Go for it!

About the cleatsm
Most patents have expensively outfotted their sons for many years. Helping your 18 year old who you supported to sign wont hurt you.
For the college drafted player who signs walk into the nearest sporting goods store to your affiliate. Show your player card.  You will be amazed at how much you can get for so little.
In most clubhouses equipment is exchanged for free or a fee. The bonus guys often help out the non bonus guys.
As I said it can work. It does for most.