Missouri Ends High School Baseball!!!!!!

Congratualtions to the MSHSAA. Now dictatorial high school coaches can't demand players play for them instead of Legion or travel teams. Someone is going to have to explain why not having coach driven high school summer ball will have any effect on the fields. Is someone going to blow them up?

I'm going to have to agree with RJM. How about that?

The Florida High School Athletic Association has language that "discourages" summer programs, but doesn't forbid them. I wish it did. There are several of those "dictatorial" coaches around here. We are fortunate that ours isn't one of them.

Regarding the field, a break is probably very good for the grass. Might have to work harder before the season starts to get it ready, but I hope you don't have to convert it from a football field like we do.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Congratualtions to the MSHSAA. Now dictatorial high school coaches can't demand players play for them instead of Legion or travel teams. Someone is going to have to explain why not having coach driven high school summer ball will have any effect on the fields. Is someone going to blow them up?

You hit the nail right on the head. That was total BS, the way the HS coaches were intimidating the kids into playing summer ball with them, destroying the competitive summer teams that coaches had been developing since their kids were 5-6.

I heard it over and over, "My HS coach said if I didn't play for him during the summer, then I wouldn't be playing on the school team." My son didn't experience this because he went to a very small school that was desperate just to field a complete team and the coaches certainly weren't interested in a summer team but virtually all of the larger public schools in my area (KC) have been pulling this same **** on their players over the past few years.

Whoever started this thread must be one of those HS coaches.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballregie:
Whoever started this thread must be one of those HS coaches.

Missouri Ends High School Baseball!!!!!!

He did sound kind of hysterical about it.

This has been the rule in Ohio for a long time. I don't see what the big deal is here.

Baseball is alive and well in Missouri.

Wew- glad you guys straightened that out I was worried when I read the title. Our HS Coach has always said I don't care where you play as long as you play at a high level.

What would the fields have to do with anything- our summer league will still pay rent to use the fields over the summer.

The MSHSAA did the right thing.

WOW, not quite the reaction I was expecting. The state of Missouri provides no money for Baseball Fields. The High School fields are maintained by the Booster clubs and their repective summer programs. No I am not a coach, I'm a dad who Gladly gave up daddy Ball so that my son could play for a great coach who cared enough to coach summer ball.
Any ballfield that does not get used in the Summer Dies!!! My sons college field does not get used during the summer and it is terrible. Has no watering system.So far most of the replies to this travesty have been self serving and short sighted.

Big Rip,

The setup you describe has always been the rule here in VA, and the sky has not fallen, not even now when the economy is putting a hurtin' on fund raising.

You'll get used to it. In fact, it really frees up your HS players to seek out better travel teams without worrying about retribution from their HS coach. So I agree with those above who say you will live to enjoy this new regime.

Yes, ditto Midlo Dad's take on it all. Not allowed in Virginia at least at the AAA level. I think single A high schools rules are more lax about how many players from a high school team can be playing for the HS coach on a summer team.

High school fields in Northern Virgini are used over the summer by multiple leagues -- Babe Ruth, Legion, Men's League. Field maintenance is a requirement for use of the field. I'm keenly in favor of community use of high school baseball fields if they are cared for. After all, we taxpayers pay for these fields, as far as I'm concerned.

Sounds like you have a different system in Missouri. Here in Virginia high school kids will often still play together in the summer -- but with a different coach. Doesn't have to be the end of summer I wouldn't think. Nor should it be.

I'm on the side of freeing up the kid for other summer opportunities. Let him get out there and seek his own level, find his way under a system with a different set of eyes evaluating and teaching.

It's all good. Those HS fields may still get used, just not by the team the HS fields.

quote:

Any ballfield that does not get used in the Summer Dies!

The school district mows the field once a week year round. They chalk the field only for varsity games. Other than that the team does all maintenance. Non school personnel and non students are not allowed to touch the field. All maintenance is done by players and coaches. It takes a requisition and patience if there's a problem with the fence. The field is rented out to Legion, Connie Mack and LL Juniors in the summer. It would be in better shape if Connie Mack and LL Juniors didn't use the field. They don't understand raking the infield after games and practices. The field looks awful by the end of August. Yet every spring the field looks great. I don't see the issue.

"I'm a dad who Gladly gave up daddy Ball"

My son has never played for a daddyball coach. It probably would have been to his benefit not to play for me. I demanded he be a perfect role model for my expectations on behavior. Now a soph if the coach told him he couldn't play showcase ball (not for me) I'd laugh at him. My son would transfer.

Fortunately, the coach doesn't want to interfere with the Legion and Junior Legion program. And for the handful of kids capable of playing at a higher level, he's grateful they've seeked out that of competition. He did run a fall ball team. He tells travel kids to show up when they can.

"So far most of the replies to this travesty"

There isn't a travesty

"have been self serving and short sighted"

Let me see. Would I prefer my son play in a scout league and three showcases or play for the high school coach? Would I want my son getting instruction from one coach all summer or from the list of college coaches his showcase coach brings in all summer?

What if the high school coach isn't a good coach? What if he doesn't have any connections to college ball? What if he doesn't understand the process of getting to the next level? Do you doom a kid his entire high school career?

No high school coach should have the right to tell a kid where he can and can't play summer ball. It's bad enough some high school coaches (in any sport) won't take a kid who didn't play his team's sport in summer ball.

In our area, the opposite is happening regarding summer teams.

Apparently, there will be a new summer league formed by the high school coaches from the conference and it will be for underclassmen jv and varsity. Anyone who just graduated won't be eligible.

Since these teams are pulling out of legion, sounds like either there's complaints that high school varsity players are getting bumped to the bench or off the senior legion teams by teams who use eligible college freshman or there's complaints on how American Legion is running their league.

While more opportunirties to play baseball are good, my guess is some underclassmen who are starting varsity players are gonna have to make a decision. Either play for the high school league for their high school coach or the senior legion team where they'd normally be playing which would be a higher level of baseball since they'd be playing with all recently graduated high schoolers and college freshman.

A question might be is that high school coach gonna "suggest" he play with the coaches high school league?...Would that hurt their status if they turned down playing in the coaches league and played up on senior legion? Although I don't think any coach will screw around with a top underclassman varsity player and let him choose where to play unless he's a control freak. Who knows.

A coaches high school league might benefit a player who a coach might otherwise overlook in a short spring tryout by getting a long look at over the summer and getting to learn his players better.

quote:

Whoever started this thread must be one of those HS coaches.

He's president of the booster club. This rule diminishes his power and access to the program and the coach for the summer.

Does the edict say the players cannot play----it says the HS coaches cannot coach their kids

That is how it is in our region---no big thing

2B,
When son was in HS, coaches were not allowed to coach fall or summer ball, it's relatively knew and I think it should not exist. The trick was the volunteer HS coaches coached fall and summer teams. I am not sure if that is why they changed it. I don't care how good a coach is, IMO this is preparing for the HS season, in disguise.
I got scared to, How about Missouri ends HS SUMMER baseball.

As far as the field, our fields were used for summer and fall ball and we had to do all the work and raise the expense to get it back to playing condition.

I am sure you will see lots of good programs cropping up, find a good scout team to play on.

I agree, good to get out there and play for someone else.

quote:

I don't care how good a coach is, IMO this is preparing for the HS season, in disguise

These HS coach ran leagues aren't doing it in disguise, They seem pretty open about their intentions.

It's not necessarily a bad thing if there's the option to play for your hs varsity coach in the summer.

Sidebar---in CT the HS coaches are not supposed to work (coach) showcases if there are at least 3 of their rostered players in the event

RJM, you think High School Coaches are "dictatorial" and Booster Club presidents are power hungry.I think neither are true but I have no doubt that YOU have issues.
In Missouri they keep their High Schools small and the school coach must cultivate players, he doesn't get to "cherry pick". He is lucky if he has three or four "travel team" players at any level.
The current Batch of young coaches trying to build school teams in S.W. Missouri could not be any more professional and don't deserve what is happening. I am sure we will adjust to this just as we will adjust to the socialistic wave taking over this once great Nation. MSHSAA knows what is best!

quote:

Originally posted by Big Rip:
RJM, you think High School Coaches are "dictatorial" and Booster Club presidents are power hungry.I think neither are true but I have no doubt that YOU have issues.
In Missouri they keep their High Schools small and the school coach must cultivate players, he doesn't get to "cherry pick". He is lucky if he has three or four "travel team" players at any level.
The current Batch of young coaches trying to build school teams in S.W. Missouri could not be any more professional and don't deserve what is happening. I am sure we will adjust to this just as we will adjust to the socialistic wave taking over this once great Nation. MSHSAA knows what is best!

It will be a better conversation if you avoid making it personal. Besides, it's frowned on hsbaseballweb.

You can't speak for all coaches narrowing your perspective to your little world. There have been many converations on this board regarding coaches forcing their players to play summer ball for them rather than where they prefer to play.

As far as cherry picking players, I don't know many public schools who can cherry pick. They're confinced to the boundaries of the school district. Private school can cherry pick.

I'll state with confidence not every coach in any state is a good coach. Why should a kid be forced to play year round for a weak coach?

Forcing a kid to play for a high school coach year round isn't socialistic. It's totalitarianism. Free market dictates the player can play where he wants in the summer. It's freedom of choice.

Now, let's say your son wants to play college ball out of state. Would you prefer he be stuck playing for his high school coach, or would you want him playing in a scout league and out of state showcases for his travel team?

Does the high school coach have the baseball knowledge of the universe? Or would you want your son to have the benefit of his travel coach bringing in college coaches as instructors? It's not only for a baseball education, but also exposure.

And if you think all booster clubs are pure, . Ours is ok. But I've heard horror stories from all over the country. Aside from the conversations on this board, I've lived in several areas of the country and have friends all over with high school age athletes.

Three cheers for your state governing body. They finally threw out tyranny and invoked freedom of choice for their baseball players. If the coaches are as good as you claim they shouldn't fear their players playing elsewhere in the summer.

Quote:He's president of the booster club. This rule diminishes his power and access to the program and the coach for the summer.
Your attempt to make this personel reveals more about you than I.
Your opinion of rules being made that protect players from bad coaches is a classic example of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Your premise that forcing ALL kids to go find a summer team because they might have a bad schoolball coach is ludicrous unless you are jaded.

quote:

Your premise that forcing ALL kids to go find a summer team because they might have a bad schoolball coach is ludicrous unless you are jaded.

Even if my son had the best high school coach in America I would still want him exposed to other coaching in the summer. No one coach has the knowledge of the baseball universe. He's exposed to college coaches in the summer. Not many high school coaches are more knowledegable than college coaches.

As it was when he played for me from thirteen to fifteen, we had four former college (two former pro) players with experience covering all the positions on the field. Very few high school coaching staffs has that kind of experience.

Is your son going to have trouble making a summer team? In our area every program already had tryouts.

My son plays in college. With most schools @ around 1000 students having the ability to raise funds through a summer program is crucial. Having experianced a "split" program the problems associated with sharing are numerous.
I prefer giving players the option to play for other coaches, which despite your experiance on this board, they DO currently have.
Now we have a heavy handed govt. agency passing an unwanted law which removes choice for ALL.

This rule hasn't hurt baseball in Texas, as many would argue it has helped enhance it.

TPM, you're right. The rule change only happened in the last 4-5 years. But even then there were ways to get around it. The assistant coach coaches a Babe Ruth team (or whatever) and gets the HS players on it, and the HS coach comes to watch. But our coach at that time was a big supporter of travel ball, and used the summer team to look at young players. Our current coach plays to win even in the summer, and the young players sit even in the summer, so it's disappointing. We aren't participating this year.

our school has enrollment of 563 students and we have a very nice field that our boosters and athletes maintain.

our coach has no desire to provide a summer program and refuses to help kids progress to the next level. (won't write recommendations, won't contact programs on kid's behalf, etc) his approach is that that is putting emphasis on individuals and not the team as whole.

that theory doesn't bother us because we have the freedom to play for a legion coach who makes it his responsbility to help the boys develop as players and get as much exposure as possible in a 8 week summer season.

a few may not like the rule in missouri, but i don't understand being outraged by it either....i'm sure most will very quickly learn to appreciate it.

And I thought in Wisconsin we had the worst high school baseball siuation in the nation, with Missouri doing what they did we still might.

Missouri without a doubt in the world made the best decision it could amking that move. The way it was in Missouri it was a contrilled environment. Now it sound almost like a "free market society".
In those situations cream always rise to the top.

Thye headline to this forum was like screaming fire in a crowded theater. That says plenty about the originator of this topic.

I totally agree with you OA5II. I think when you really look and think about this, it's a smart move by Missouri.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
Congratualtions to the MSHSAA. Now dictatorial high school coaches can't demand players play for them instead of Legion or travel teams. Someone is going to have to explain why not having coach driven high school summer ball will have any effect on the fields. Is someone going to blow them up?

I couldn't agree more RJM. We live in district here in FL that requires players to play Summer & Fall with the Legion team run by the Varsity coaches. If you do not play Legion, you will not play HS ball. Due to this Dictatorship; so many good players miss out on opportunities to play PG events, Junior Olympics and other showcase events that many of my son's former teammates will be participating in this summer.

quote:

They may form a team to play together but without the HS coach, it backs to Daddy ball again, the team won't hold long for couple of games into the summer season, you know Daddy ball was like, "My son is always the best player".

I agree here. Not every HS player goes select and elite. Most play summer legion ball. The legion team during my son's HS playing years were protected by the dads and made sure their kids played on it. That is why dads took these summer teams. In this sense, it's better the high school coach run the summer team and play in a league where they're more likely to play kids and see what they got for next year.

quote:

A lot of the HS players if they don't have a HS summer team to play, they will miss the entire summer baseball, because no travel team will take them.

There are many options available for summer ball other than travel. They may not all be available in your area. But chances are some are. Other than travel my son could play:

Legion
Senior Babe Ruth
LL Seniors
Connie Mack
Mickey Mantle
Community based travel (town teams)