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They wont be offered alot, one reason because of their commitment. They wont get offered much for the ML scholarship plan either.

But then what I consider alot may be alot to someone else.

 

High school players unless paid a lot for bonusshould go to school.

JMO

 

Due to new bonus rules, rounds 11-14 can and often are offered a lot, while rounds 8-10 are offered close to the minimum. It has to do with bonus pooling and how it breaks down. Read about it on Baseball America.

Kyle,
What is alot that would be offered to a JUCO sign?

The one in the later round per MLB.com was projected to go sooner than he did.  They had him around #150 +/- area code kid  and very signable which would have been more $$$.  I can't see him sigining unless he's over slot and IMO that's not gonna happen at that round.

Round 14 can be overslot depending on how good the kid is and what his demands were. Not likely, though. If he's very signable, that's not more $$$, that's less. That means less leverage over the pro team.

I dunno. There are some dummies out there who sign with JCs because they can't get into a good four-year and don't want to go NAIA, and some end up with good money. Like mid six figures.

 

Elliot Morris was a TJ kid from the PacNW who carved up NWAC JC league in his first full year; went in the 4th round and cleared almost 400k. That's decent money, especially given the surgery and the fact that he played in a bad JC league.

 

EDIT:

 

TPM said:
"High school players unless paid a lot for bonusshould go to school. JMO"

 

I could not agree more. Especially if they are position players. The difference in pitching is... unreal. Very hard to adjust to. I tell my guys that unless the bonus covers the scholarship award (after taxes!), it's not worth talking about, which means 350k or so at least, ruling out most offers.

 

If it's above that... gotta start thinking about your future, how much you like school, etc.

There aren't any slot values after the 10th round. The rules change after 10. Teams can pay up to $100K without impacting their pool or luxury tax in 11-40. But unlike 1-10, they do not lose any pool allocation if they don't sign the player in 11-40. 

 

I think it's unusual for a team to pay more than $100K in rounds 11-40. From what I've seen, a good bonus in those rounds is about $50K. Lots of guys sign for $5-10K.

 

Yeah, it seemed confusing based on some published info I read about some local kids.

 

One kid is drafted in the 4th round and the local paper notes a slot value of $400,000+. Family responded that they were able to negotiate for a slightly higher amount than slot.

 

Another kid goes in the 13th round. Paper reports a $300,000 signing bonus + future paid college tuition. That number seemed way out of line for the pick, but I don't know.

 

The college tuition is pretty common (through the Professional Baseball Scholarship Plan) so that doesn't surprise me, but I'm stumped on why a team would take a $200K hit to their pool for a 13th rounder. They could have taken him in the 10th and only taken about a $150K hit.

 

I wish Josh was still posting here.

 

I read sometimes a team will draft a 50/50 guy outside of round 10.  The logic is that they want to make a run at the guy but don't want to lose pool dollars if they do not sign.  If they sign the guy for $500k, then they have to find the money using under slot signings in rounds 1-10.  If they cannot sign the guy, no real loss.  The would be guys with signability issues where the team goes on a fishing expedition with their fingers crossed.

 

On a related topic, are the scholarship dollars negotiable?  If so, what is the typical range?  Also, are they counted outside of the bonus for over/under slot calculations?

 

The allotted pool money for some of the rounds 10 and under was never met. So doesnt that give the team leeway after round 10?

TPM - are you referencing the current draft or prior drafts?  I have read one article were one player mentioned an agreed bonus but was not aware that there had been any wholesale signings for 2015 so far.  Deadline for signing is July 15th (?) so it may take a little while for over slot offers to be made.  I believe Nix had an "agreement" last year BUT is was premised upon the Astros signing Aiken well below slot (apparently Aiken had agreed to under slot deal well before physical  at which point everything was on the table).  When they failed to sign Aiken they had no slush money to follow through with the Nix bonus.

2014.

For many of the picks, the deadline would have passed before a team was able to get a hard dollar figure and maybe go back to one or two.  Some guys (I think college seniors with no remaining eligibility) are signable up through the next draft date.  Also not sure if a kid can become off limits - for instance if he went ahead and showed up on college campus for summer school - might preclude a last minute deal if a team has a few leftover dollars.  I assume the pool money is available for one year subject to the signing deadline (by far the biggest cutoff date) and potential eligibility issues.

 

Still interested in any insight into the scholarship program and how this gets incorproated into an agreement.

There is no "slot money" for rounds 11-40.   Each organization can pay $100k  to any player in those rounds without penalty for exceeding their total amount allotted draft budget (each team has a different amount for their budget).  If an organization pays more than their budget, then they will wind up paying additional amounts to the league on what they've paid in excess of that budget.  So, players in the 11-40 rounds typically can get $100k, but very few do.  After the 15th  round it's really rare that a players gets any money.  And, some players in those rounds can be offered amounts equivalent to 2nd and 3rd round money(typically, those that get this kind of money in theses rounds are High Schoolers; last year the Marlins gave 20th round pick high schooler Jordan Holloway $400K).   So, for a 14th and 19th rounders out of a JC, the best they might expect is $100k. . . IF, they're very lucky.

 

I don't see it clearly explained on the PBSP FAQ, but I'm pretty sure the signing bonus and the PBSP are two separate parts of the contract, and the PBSP money does not count against slot value.

 

The scholarship program doesn't count against an organization's budget limit.  But the organizations do negotiate scholarship amounts along with the signing bonuses and look at the total for it all during negotiations.  The amount negotiated in an agreement will depend on the level of school the player has attended or is likely to attend.  So, if a HS player has scholarship offers to a private school that costs $60k year, that's $240K for 4 years of school the organization considers spending in addition to whatever signing bonus they might negotiate.

 

Don't know if that's the kind of thing you're looking for or what, but I hope it helps.

Thanks Truman!  I had no idea the scholarship total could be north of $200k.  With a $100k signing bonus, that could get you in the neighborhood of $350M thrown out by Kyle Boddy as I assume taxes on bonus dollars (over two years?) and scholarship spead out over 4 would greatly lesses the tax effect.  I guess part of the equation is committing to and meeting acceptance criteria to a good school.  If only the typical MiLB lifestyle was a little better I could see MiLB as an extended gap year(s) before heading to college.  In reality, could a player not knock out the first, maybe second year during the offseason at some local institution and then maybe only have two years left when/if their playing days end?  Assuming they get $100k for scholarship, could they not tap into $10k for years #1 and #2 (local college) and then have $80k left to finish out at the college of their choice?

There is no prohibition on a team paying anything to anyone; if a team pays over their total bonus pool, there is an economic penalty (expressed as either or both loss of future draft picks and a monetary penalty) only. The amount of the pool for the top ten picks is listed in various sources (e.g., Baseball America). If a club pays more than it's bonus pool to those top ten picks in total, the penalty kicks in. If a club doesn't pay out the total pool to the top ten picks, left over money can be paid any other player (drafted or not) PLUS $100,000 to that player. For example, if a club has 300k left over from its top ten picks it can pay a player drafted in round 40 400k without penalty (300 + 100).

 

Bonus money goes to who has leverage. Leverage generally rests in the young - HS has more then JUCO, JUCO has more then juniors, juniors more then seniors. But leverage doesn't displace MLB potential. Every player drafted - at whatever age - according to at least one expert (called scouts) has at least one potential major league tool. At least one expert has seen the player and concluded that the player has potential to make it to MLB if developed properly and the stars line up (e.g., no injuries).

 

If a team doesn't sign a top ten pick, the team gets dinged for the full slot amount. This makes it critical for a team to know - especially with picks 6 - 10 - to absolutely know what the draftee will take. Since the new CBA went into effect, rounds 8 - 10 have been fertile ground for seniors. The seniors drafted in those rounds would have, if they had their senior years as juniors, most likely drafted much higher (with better leverage) with much higher bonuses. There are even a few seniors who get much closer to full value - the absolute best of the senior class. In 2014, senior Jake Stinnett of Maryland comes to mind; 1 million bonus. But every senior taken in the top ten rounds (a) have been judged to have MLB potential, (b) had a great senior year (or an excuse for not), and (c) was called before being selected and agreed to a heavily discounted bonus. That savings will be wheeled to HS, JUCO, or juniors.

 

Additionally, there will be a number of HS players taken in the top ten rounds who will sign for less than slot. (Joe Musgrove from the 2010 draft comes to mind.) For one reason or another, college may not be the right path for some of these kids (e.g., not academically eligible), they may really need the immediate money, or they may simply want to hurry up and get to proball. These savings will be wheeled to others; but the fact that these high leverage players may settle for less than slot makes them move up a bit on the draft board.

 

As for the MLB scholarship fund, it is a honey trap waiting to ensnare the unaware. With this money, the devil is in the details. I have heard that only about 20% of money set aside is ever used. When compared to the scholarship money offered by D1, the MLB money is treated as wages and subject to taxes (Including FICA and Medicare as well as state and federal income tax); it has limits as to when and how fast it must be used; its nominal value diminishes over time as tuition, room and board, and fees increase; the amount is reduced by certain bonuses a player makes (e.g., I think a player makes a 1k bonus for making it to AA -  that money comes from the scholarship money); the club will try to negotiate a state rate while a kid wants private school money set aside; it does not cover whatever the player wants - e.g., it covers the cheapest type of room and board (may be fine for an 18 year old, but not so fine for a 26 year old with a wife and a kid). 

 

It it is well within the realm of probability that even a private school MLB scholarship will cover less then 1/3 of the real total cost of that school six years down the road (the length of the draft contract). (Full amount of the scholarship - taxes (30%) - college cost inflation (30%) = not as much as you think.)

 

Teams taking HS players late are not just throwing them a bone. Lots can happen between the draft and the signing deadline; coaches change, priorities change, the team may find it has significant bonus money left over, family crisis changes economic circumstances, etc.  For these reasons, a team might as well take a flyer on a highly regarded HS player.

 

 

 Yup, depending on just how one handles it.

 That would affect how much can be negotiated with an organization.

 And life happens in those "gap years" where many who planned to return to college don't or can't find a way to finish college (what a waist!). 

 I suppose it's possible depending on the curriculum of the school (quarterly vs. semester) and the availability of particular classes for any period.  With the season ending in Sep and spring training starting at the end of February or early March, there's not really a lot of off season time to get a full years worth in.  Certainly, there's no reason one can't get some of it done during off season.

 

 Yes, one might manage it that way.  Keeping in mind that what's paid out is for actual school expenses as a reimbursement.  Some cases, housing and food expense can be part of that too.  Then, whenever the organization writes the check the date on the check will determine the year it's taxed.

 

Good points!

 

(emphasis mine)

As I often say . . . "life happens" and it's hard to go back to college when you're older and many feel out of place attending classes with a much mentally younger crowd.

 

 One probably can't expect to get private school money unless there is a private school scholarship already on the table.

 

 Inflation. . . .a point of negotiation that should be addressed.

 

25 or so years ago Brad Ausmus was admitted to Dartmouth when he got drafted out of high school. He ended up signing and going into pro ball AND going to Dartmouth. Dartmouth was and is on a quarter system (similar to the UC system in California), where the fall quarter starts around September 20th, the winter quarter starts early January and finishes mid-March, and the spring quarter starts early April and finishes early June. So he went to school for the fall and winter quarters (taking a heavier course load than normal), and then played pro baseball from mid-March through the end of August or early September. He graduated from Dartmouth (in 5 and 1/2 years), AND made the majors.Obviously he needed the approval of both his team and the school to pull this off. But I've often thought it would be an ideal approach for the right kid. And there are enough schools on a quarter system that it could work.

 My son completed a semester last fall and has one left to graduate.  The only problem now is, the school he wants to graduate from doesn't only offers the class he needs in the fall (and nothing on line for it either).  So, he'll have to wait for baseball career to end or for the school to change the time when the classes are offered.

Good advice Truman, I would like to highlight and add some points.

 

First off,  going to school AND playing pro ball isnt easy. To state what Truman posted, once you begin the process, it must be completed within a certain time frame, and as the player advances up the ladder, the money can disappear. The scholarship money expires after a 10 year period and it also does if the player is out of affiliated ball for 2 championship seasons.  The terms in the MLB plan  are negotiable and have to be specific, my sons agent negotiated and the terms were acceptable.  For example,  his agreement was not put in dollars, but in semesters. So it would be based upon current amount to attend 2 semesters, less his incentives for moving up and sticking  for the required amount of time (I think 90 days). My sons college mate negotiated room and board only, as he was a resident of the state where he would finish. You really have to know what you are negotiating, it all sounds great but they have a way of making it work so you never see a dime. So the amount you agree upon 8 years later is 1/3 of the current tuition, now what do you do?

Years ago son was offered by the Yankees (HS). Their ML scholarship offer was based upon living in FL, not attending in another state, and that was not acceptable to us.

 

Most teams WILL agree to allow players to attend school and possibly miss some time in certain instances:  the player has one more year or less left to graduate or the player wants to start his college career and is a VERY high pick in the draft. They don't give senior signs $$ to graduate, but they may build it into their bonus. 

 

Bonus money can be paid out over a long period of time, this usually is for the multi million dollar bonus player.  

 

The government takes 25% off immediately. This way they know they will get something and you have to file to get it back, based upon deductions of the player. Most of the really good agencies will not take their share immediately so it doesnt hurt all at once.

 

Remember, major league scholarships handed out are not equal,  depending on the team and the player.  100K, no way. But if that will make a difference to a player they want to sign, they will make it happen, not sure they will for anyone who is not considered top priority, they will just go onto the next guy who doesn't need to finish school.

 

My son is going to be 30 and will be returning to school, 20% taken out right away meant he would have to put up the rest, that was ok, as he has had money put away for that. He has to go back to where he started, he was a bit nervous at first, but as luck may have it, there is a program that helps athletes previously on scholaship and a living allowance. He also is welcomed back to join the team as a student coach.

This may be a factor in deciding when and where to commit, for the higher prospect who will have options down the road, ask about what will happen if your son is drafted and needs to return. I have to be honest, not sure if all of this might have happened had he not been given what he will have, he really wasnt going to work a job and attend school, going back after being away isnt as easy as it might seem.

 

Understand one very important thing, in order to move forward each season the player has to be in physical shape, that requires hours and hours in the gym in the off season, cant really do that and attend school and study, maybe have to work to make some income and expect to keep your job in spring.

 

Brad Ausmus is a genius,  he is not your typical player and times have changed.

I'm not sure how you guys keep so much knowledge stuffed into your brains.  Hope some day we get to put this to use but in the meantime this is fascinating reading and I get to keep repeating "better grades means a bigger bounus".    If only the teams paid extra for kids who kept their rooms spotless.

 

Guess when push comes to shove the "advisor" may actually earn their commission dealing with these finer points.

I didnt know this until my son had an advisor and from his experience, so I am passing the info along to you, free of charge!!!!

As far as the clean room thing, mine would have been a walk on or a very late pick.

He has gotten better with age though.....

Before my son had an adviser, he/we learned a lot from a long session that was provided when my son was at Area Codes.   I don't know if they still do that and don't remember whether or not it was just something my son's particular Area Code team did, but we found that extremely helpful. And the education came early enough to provide time to think about our particular situation and approach before HS graduation.   

Re-emphasizing a point made earlier: proball is a full time job - in season and off-season.

 

When compared to college ball (and HS), the conditioning required in the off season is much, much more. Most guys who work out in my area together, are working on their careers at least 6 hours a day; most have jobs at some level of baseball (lessons, TB coach, batting cage staff, etc.) which enables them to fill the car with gas, eat (and these guys can eat), and have a few shekels left over for entertainment. Going to class on top of that may be difficult for some (and easy for others).

 

Using your MLB scholarship money early in order to take one class in the off season on top of that is, IMO, a very, very bad idea. A player who draws upon the MLB money starts the clock ticking on the time the money is actually available. There are several important dates for the program: (a) the money MUST begin to flow to school within a specified maximum period of time from the conclusion of a career (it can begin to flow during the career) and (b) once the money flow begins, the money available can be accessed for only a specified period of time.. So, a player using the MLB fund to, let's say take an on-line GED course (a normal pre-requisite before even choosing a major) for a few hundred dollars, begins the clock ticking. In this situation, it would be near impossible to complete the degree within the time available. I would advise that the players parents pick up the tab for all classes until the player can devote all his attention and time to school.

 

I think all bonuses are now paid in a single year (new to this CBA), unless the player is a multi-sport player; thus, taxes are cruel in the draft year. (Less cruel in subsequent years when they earn almost nothing.) Combined with the elimination of "income averaging," the taxes can be quite a bite (That's one reason to max out all the types of retirement savings available in that year.)

 

As TPM noted, it's a type of shell game to MLB. Make the desert look like its a swimming pool; there are free lunches for all with no downside; remember this: if a multi billion dollar industry which pays its low level employees below minimum wage is offering stuff which looks too good to be true, buyer beware (read and understand the fine print). Of course, the fine print can get lost in the shuffle, excitement, and pressure inheren in this time of year - leaving the player to step on the land mines years down the road.

 

All that having been said, it's still the adventure of a lifetime for most.

Getting ready to drop my kid off at an on campus event next week - my biggest concern is not his performance on the field but rather his room check out where it says room will be inspected before he can leave.

 

Thanks for the very intersting read.  While I doubt we will ever have to put it to use, I am quite certain there are some folks out there today that are benefitting from the insight.  We're just starting to focus on where he might fit at the collegiate level (quite a range) and no draft out of HS unless he picks up about a dozen mph - closer to two dozen to to get into top 10 rounds.  Just weird to see LHP throwing upwards of 100.

I agree!

 

With regards to conditioning in HS and college, it's very true for HS. . . .but, I think the conditioning within college really depends a lot on the particular college and/or coach.  I know in my son's case, though he tends to spend 6 hrs or so working out in the off season as he went back to school, he found it was actually easier to manage it all than it was when we was a student athlete at his college.  I asked him once why he felt it was "easier", he said he didn't have to get up so early for conditioning nor have to deal with the long road trips and making up of missed classes.  So, for someone with the college student athlete experience, it seems that going back to school might be more often easier than what was experienced in college before hand.

 

 I feel there's some very good points here.  But one approach doesn't fit all.  So, people should take these kinds of things into consideration and do what best fits their situation and goals.

 

 . . . . still gotta be careful about a one-size fits all approach.  If such a young person maxes out their retirement and really has a need for it latter on, there's early withdrawal penalties on top of tax that can be a detriment.

 

 Indeed!  

 

People just do not realize how grueling this profession is. Once you are in you are in. Theres no thinking about school but how you will beat out the next guy for the job.

 

Trying to come up with these scenarios doesnt make sense.  Thinking that some team is going to give you 100k to attend school 5 years down the road isn't going to work in your favor.  College is VERY expensive now and will be more so in the future. And if you do get some bonus money, there is very little options to turn a profit. I hear folks say, well he didn't make a lot of money in the draft, but I will help him to follow his dream until he can go to college to earn a degree.  Well, maybe I am old school, but if you are going to go join the workforce at 18 and you don't have money to begin with, you wont have it for another 4-6 years and I am not going to support you.

 

I am not sure where people come up with an adventure of a lifetime. Its a job and a very tough one at that. 

I just spoke to a friend of mine, a senior sign from a few years ago, a graduate of Northwestern.  Just released (happens before and after draft time), she was so happy he was moving on, he realized that he wasnt going to ever make a ml roster and after a few years of making nothing he knew he could turn his degree into a very nice living.

 

Dont get me wrong,  son wouldnt be who he is without the struggles he has had to go through, but when all is said and done maybe the hardest thing he will face is going back to school at almost 30 to attend classes, study, and be involved with baseball once again.  I am not sure he could have done that without having to do it before he was drafted.

 

Get in as much education as you can, let someone help you pay for it, then after 3 years if you have improved get someone to pay for the rest. BE SMART!!!

"I am not sure where people come up with an adventure of a lifetime. Its a job and a very tough one at that."

 

Just because something is a job and tough, doesn't mean that that thing isn't the adventure of a lifetime. I look back at my time in the service as fitting that exact description.

 

According to one dictionary, the word "adventure" means:

• an an undertaking involving risk, or unexpected excitement;
• an exciting or remarkable experience;
• to take a chance;
• to take the risk involved in something.

To me, pursuing a professional baseball career fits many of the dictionary definitions.  

 

Hard, yes. Tough, yes. Most likely ending without culminating at the top level, yes. Work, yes. A life worth of lessons taught early, yes. Unique experiences, yes. Boring, yes. Exciting, yes. Fun, yes. Stressful, yes. Lots of yesses.

 

Can many people do it, no.

Just another reality to consider...

 

While there may only be 20% of those offered the MLB scholarship that use it, for those that take advantage of the program this is a very good option.  In my son's case the offer wasn't based on a "state rate" as mentioned earlier, he actually was able to negotiate 120% of the estimated total COA using the university he had a scholarship to as a benchmark (UNC).  I'm not sure about the "nominal value" statement since the scholarship turned to be A LOT of more money than his offer from the university.  

 

Outside of the signing bonus, the scholarship fund is pretty much the only other thing that can be negotiated and I feel the player has a bit of an advantage in this area.  The MLB team doesn't expect many will use the funds so they can be quite agreeable to a fairly significant scholarship offer...the key is to use it.  While jerseyson had a nice scholarship to UNC it certainly wasn't at 100% and being from out of state it would have still been quite expensive (not to mention coming out of mom and dads pocket not his) :-). His packaged covered over 100% of his COA so far and there will be money left over. 

 

As for taxes, he started using the scholarship fund the year after his bonus was paid so based on his milb salary his tax bracket was about as low as you can go. :-)

 

Just thought I would offer a "real world" scenario about the upside of the MLB Scholarship fund...Jerseyson "retired" from baseball after his first contract was up this December and after a lot of hard work he only has 1 year left of school to go and the scholarship fund has more than covered his total COA. Not going to say it's not difficult to go to school while playing (or after playing 6 years) however it can be done...if baseball doesn't work out, the scholarship fund can be just a valuable as the signing bonus.  

 

Mine was offered the equivalent of an instate tuition, not what was based on COA out of state.

But then the yankees didnt want DK as much as the pirates wanted QM.