Moderator removed a thread

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
The thread was focused mostly on whether players receive equal playing time in a fall showcase league. I think discussions like that are worthwhile, since they help parents know what to expect in various formats, and also provide feedback to league administrators so that they can continue to improve the format.

Then why not leave everything except the monotonous demands for people to sign their names and any other slanderous statements, but leave the opinions of the paying customers, as well as any rebuttals? Now it's all gone and anyone considering this league in the future does not have the benefit of these warnings.

Sandman, don't you ever stop crying? Why don't you read the moderator's full post? The same person was writing the anonymous posts that were slandering the SL. ONE person. ONE computer. You have no problem with that? Are you serious or don't you get it? It's unethical. It discredits everything they posted. Thank you, Julie!

Sandman, if you do not have a problem with that, there is something wrong with you. Or maybe you are in cahoots with these dissatisfied, angry people.

What is it? What do you have against these gentlemen? It is obvious you have agenda against the SL no matter how much you profess to have no horse in this race...No matter how much you pretend to be a voice of reason.

If you can, read #2 of the moderator's post again. I copied it for you below.

"Several "different" posters in the thread were posting from the same IP number. So it appeared that one parent was posting a complaint and then another member ID was replying from the same IP number (which usually means the same computer) saying they were also a parent who had a similar complaint. IF that is indeed what was happening, it is unfair for anonymous posters (or one poster with multiple IDs) to gang up that way against an identified organization."

Julie thinks that's UNFAIR. But you can't see it that way. Thanks to Julie these "cheaters" have ben censored.

My advice, if you have a complaint make it forthright. Be honest. Sign your name. Help the directors of the SL continue to improve their product. It's the best game in town.

Your last line Sandman, made my night. Thanks, I can't stop laughing.

"Now it's all gone and anyone considering this league in the future does not have the benefit of these warnings." Ha Ha. That's awesome.

Now I'll focus on Nolan Ryan and George Bush throwing out the 1st ball, and watch baseball with a smile on my face.

You're free to believe what you want. But I really do have no horse in this race. I find it interesting that you consider my objective, neutral input "crying". As far as I know, I might be the only one discussing this that DOESN'T have a stake. Your tough guy bravado is boring though, really and adds NOTHING to the discussion. But I understand that some people just get off on confrontation. Your problem, not mine pal.

But your detective skills need some work. Do you understand how a router works? I have 4 computers, my iPhone and my son's iPod Touch. They all use our wifi and therefore all register the same IP even though multiple different people can be on at once. Or it could be the same person. But we just don't know, do we?

I get it. You were pleased with this league. Why can't you get it that others were not and are entitled to their opinions?

And no matter how many times you say that posters should have to sign their names, I will continue to disagree. WHY is it necessary??? I know you're new here, but look around. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of posts in which people offer their opinions - probably almost all of them without their names. If I receive service that I'm not happy with and post a review on some website and it helps others avoid the same aggravation, is it somehow less helpful without my NAME attached to it? Maybe you need a stool to step off that high horse?

You can try all you want to discredit me too, as if doing so will further stifle input. But I really do have nothing at stake here, other than seeing free speech prevail. Of course, we could all do without the slander, but IMO the discussion of the pros and cons of ANY league should be allowed.

In the end though, your incessant whining about credibility prevailed and the thread is gone. What a shame.

Sandman, if the Ip address is the same...the multiple members are posting from the same house. I think it is safe to say they are the same person.

Huh? Really? I'm at my brother's house right now. We both have smart phones and I'm on my laptop. If we post on all 3 devices right now, does that make it all from me??? C'mon! It COULD be or it might not be.

It looks like you started a new thread, just like you wanted.

I don't care how many computers you have. Or iPads.....or i pod touches...That's the point. If a person is anonymous, and they say they hate the SL, it was the worst experience that they ever had...then they have their husband go on and agree, and same the same thing....on and on with all the computers they have.....maybe they even have 4 or 5. Is that ethical?

Do you really think anonymity is beneficial? One family of unsatisfied people can effectively slander a business' or a person's reputation without any liability. That's not fair. It's dishonest. I have a hard time believing that anyone would think that it is an acceptable for of dissent.

I have a better idea. Tell me what's wrong with the SL, sign your name, have a discussion....then you have credibility. Maybe I will agree with you. Maybe I won't. But I don't need everyone in the family's anonymous opinion saying the same thing.

The End!

If that is the case - multiple family members registering the same complaint about the same player - then I completely agree with you. That IS ganging up and rather low - and probably unnecessary, seeing their point had already been made in their original post. If it's found to have been the same family, then they shot themselves in the foot, trying to amplify their message. They would've been better off having just said it once and let the discussion around playing time and "showcase" continue. But if it were multiple parents of DIFFERENT players, all gathered at the same house, then that'd be different.

From everything I've read and heard, it sounds like they're running a great organization. Who knows? Maybe the end result might just be, as someone said in the thread, to change the name of the league and carry on?

I am not going to continue answering/responding on this thread but the allegations that a single family has made the allegations are false. If any one challenges a "good ol boy" network there always seems to be a way to discredit their points.

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:

However, I ended up removing the thread for two reasons:

1. Some of the comments were specific enough that they hinted at identifying individual players, and I will always err on the side of protecting players from embarrassment if possible.

Thanks,

Julie

There where two reasons to delete the original thread, and i think reason number one was the most important. Reason number two probably just added the final straw. It seems to be prevalent in the above posts as well...

Maybe some of us have a problem with schizophrenia.... just saying..

Yes, I’m a new contributor to the Northeast Forum, although I have followed some of the postings for a few months. Since my son turned 13 and is standing at a crossroads in his baseball life, I felt the forum would be beneficial in sorting out available programs and directions in which to move. I figured the forum would be a good place to learn more about the options awaiting him. Now I’m not so sure.
Upon coming across the thread on the Showcase League, I was initially interested in the anger of certain detractors. I read their posts about playing time, favoritism, and the idea that “Showcase” means equal time and equal opportunity. I began to consider the idea of anonymity. If I can post anything negative that I want without confirmation, is that in the proper spirit? Could I begin to discredit individuals for personal reasons? As I continued through the posts, I began to further weigh the pros and cons of this approach.
As I recall the thread, I do not remember specific players or teams identified, only the Showcase league. Now I must clarify that I did not read any posts, yesterday, until I read the moderator’s, MN-Mom, posting about removing the thread. Her second point struck me as relevant to the discussion. She says that multiple contributors were using the same IP address. To me this seems unacceptable and implies that one person was posting negative thoughts under different display names.
I suppose a group of angry detractors could have had a meeting at someone’s house, as one poster suggested, but that seems highly improbable. If parents are so organized and in solidarity with their beliefs, then they owe it to those in charge to be forthright with those criticisms. Maybe, instead, they should better use their meeting time to improve conditions in the USA. In all seriousness, posting anonymously using multiple names violates the idea of fair play.
The importance of voicing opinions about services can be valuable, but in this instance it seems the value gets lost in the anonymity. Yes, fear of reprisal is dangerous, but I have a difficult time believing that constructive criticism and mutual dialogue and concern for improving a service would be met with animosity by the directors of the afore mentioned organization.
Jslo, whom I believe is the writer that began this thread, doesn’t dispute the moderator’s challenge that the postings came from the same IP address, just that they were not from the same family. Although I’m not sure that I believe that defense, it still seems to me that families meeting together to discuss an organization or service or coach violates the idea of fair play when each of them post dialogue anonymously. It seems underhanded. You, who post on this forum, are not talking about social revolution, you are speaking about improving a game for boys and making it better.

Tim - what you missed was a targeted post which if one wanted to and knew where to look, one might be able to ascertain who the original author was. I fully understand why the whole stream was taken out and I think it makes a statement about accountability, but also a statement about making accusations behind character strings meant to protect ones anonymity. I have to assume the "Report This Post" button was used, although perhaps MN-Mon could have been following all along. This whole conversation took a very uncomfortable turn very quickly. In the end I would say protecting our own wins out over some of the things written.

Hopefully Shawn and SL Board can consider some of the underlying issues and principles that were found to be negative in order to keep making the program better. They have a good product with many success stories. I haven't been involved in a program where things were perfect or there weren't detractors, but handled well on all sides it is possible to turn the negatives around. The process of getting to continue the dream to play baseball in college is not easy. There is no silver bullet for the "common player". There's far more parents (or players) that believe their child (or they) is (or are) better than the one that is playing.

As for the IP Address thing - most (especially larger) companies have ways to "hide" the IP Address of outgoing packets - if you know the protocol it's not all that difficult. The reason they do that is to hide their network topology from hackers and attackers.

Good luck Tim; your kid is young and things change. I wish you better luck than what we have found with the established baseball powers that be.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Michaud:
Since my son turned 13 and is standing at a crossroads in his baseball life, I felt the forum would be beneficial in sorting out available programs and directions in which to move. I figured the forum would be a good place to learn more about the options awaiting him. Now I’m not so sure.

Tim,
Please excuse an outsider for jumping in on this regional forum. I saw some interesting dialog and couldn't resist.

Your post is intelligent and insightful. I don't know anything about the organization in question. I would, however, like to address your comment about not being sure about this being a good place to learn about options awaiting your son.

I have been utilizing this resource (HSBBW) for about 1 1/2 years. I reference the site for a wide variety of needs and come here in a variety of capacities. I ask questions from A-Z, I debate general topics, I contribute (hopefully) where I can, I search, I learn... a lot. There is no resource even remotely close to providing the information necessary to navigate the process as your son continues to advance in baseball levels. The people that run and oversee the site have shown me nothing but the best of intentions and the finest of character, time and time again. Re-read MN Mom's post and it's all there... honest, straight forward, open, considerate, fair, high standards.

This is a public forum. Yes, you will get a variety of opinions, viewpoints, experiences, etc. Yes, at times, you will have to sort out the real from the bogus and determine what works best or applies most to your situation. Yes, you will also get varying degrees of anonymity and run across those with agendas as you would with most forums. That being said, this is truely a resource like no other. You will also find great folks who have been down the road we are traveling and are more than willing to help guide us. I only wish I had discovered this site when my son was 13.

I strongly encourage you to spend some more time here before you decide to abandon the site and don't limit yourself to the regional section.
Best of luck in the journey.

Wow, so many helpful evaluation threads around here... and go figure... every poster DIDN'T sign their names?! How on earth can we trust anything they say?

USSSA All American Games
top 96 showcase New England
Blue Grey Classic
Blue Grey "Best of North England" Lowell Mass August 2009
Under Armour Pre-Season All American Tournament

These are just some of the negative reviews. There are countless other positive reviews on various showcases. Should we ignore the positive ones too because most posters didn't sign their names? (I mean, they could all work for or be friends of the organizations that hosted them, right?)

Bah!

Some members have posted requests that those who are criticizing publicly-named organizations post their real names in order to add credibility - a reasonable suggestion, but not a requirement of this forum.

But what bothers me right now is that as I go back and read posts by the 4 member IDs that were posting from the same IP number, all 4 of those member IDs have posted negative reviews of one organization. As I noted above, honest feedback is a valid use of this forum, but the 4 members posting from the same IP looks suspicious.

The first thread I already removed was started by one of those 4 matching-IP members, and there is a second thread which I am removing right now which has two more of those matching IP members as thread starter and second post.

If any of the real people who are associated with those 4 member IDs wish to contact me by PM to clear things up, please feel free. From where I sit it looks like there was some dishonest intent.

Julie

Tim,

Welcome.

We just got back from a PG tournament in Florida. We live in the boonies of Connecticut, and there is zero chance that my son would have had the opportunity to play in that tournament without this website. He played on a team coached by one of the contributors on this website, whom I hadn't met in person.

Through this website I have gotten some wonderful advice and input from people in NY, CT, RI, NH and Mass, among other places. IMHO, those of us in these baseball boonies need this kind of network more than those sitting in the hotbeds for youth baseball. Some of the best information is actually transmitted via PM, without all of the noise.

As for the removed thread, I thought it was out of control. Sometimes people get on a point and won't give up until everyone agrees with them. This is the worst part of the forums. Frankly, I thought it was out of character for the NE group, but I do understand that when it comes to our kids we can be a bit obsessed.

Sometimes I have to take a break from the forum if I think it has become too negative. Sometimes I start a positive thread to try to counteract the negativity.

I hope you hang in there, and take what you need from here. Just leave the rest.

And as for my advice to the parent of a 13 year old - invest in a really good folding chair and get a designated blanket to keep with it.

Tim,

Great job. You must be a barrister. You have coolly and succinctly presented your views on this unfortunate situation that has led to growing suspicions regarding the true intent of a specific group of contributors. I’m too emotional and perhaps I get confrontational when I have to say the same thing 5 times. But that’s who I am.

I agree with everything you wrote. Your objectivity puts you in line for the job of arbiter for the NBA vs. players disagreement. I believe that you understand the real issue at stake.

I support your well-articulated beliefs, and I quote…. “The importance of voicing opinions about services can be valuable, but in this instance it seems the value gets lost in the anonymity. Yes, fear of reprisal is dangerous, but I have a difficult time believing that constructive criticism and mutual dialogue and concern for improving a service would be met with animosity by the directors of the afore mentioned organization.” (Tim Michaud)

I have never, and I assume the records of my previous posts are lost in internet oblivion, called for censorship of criticism against the SL. If I were a member of their staff of directors, I would, in fact, encourage honest dissent. Just as any player or team strives to improve, wouldn’t the gentleman who run the SL want a discussion regarding others’ take on the SL experience. Don’t they want to put the best product on the market that they can? I am positive they would feel the same way.

It makes one hopeful to see that our moderator, MN-Mom, understands that the danger of having different authors posting negative comments from the same IP address, is creating the suspicion of dishonest intent.

Thank You Tim. Thank you Jullie.

Our son never played in this league and I wouldn't recognize any of the owners if they walked in front of me. My two cents for what its worth.

The owners of the league started it to give the kids of New Hampshire more chances to play baseball and that's great. They must be doing something right, they have expanded.

They recognized a market and they went after it probably investing personal assets and a ton of time. Why shouldn't they make a profit. How much can the profit be per player after paying umpires, field costs, balls, shirts/hats and other miscellaneous expenses. So what if they are making $100-$200 per player. They made the investments; they deserve a return on their investment.

Get rid of the name Showcase League. If its Fall baseball position it as such. Under promise and over deliver. Still work your college contacts and get them to come to some games. If they do, its a bonus. If they don't nobody gets upset.

Consider a mid season/end of season college showcase using other successful models. Make it an add on to your core product/service. Maybe you charge a nominal fee ($20) and use it pay for coaches transportation to the event...but make sure you get colleges to attend.

Set up a written vehicle where customers can give you feedback Having been in business for 30 years I am not one who believes "The Customer Is Always Right." However, I have learned alot from customers comments. Most will do so in professional manner.


Thank you giving the kids of New Hampshire more opportunites to play baseball. You may not be perfect but I applaud what you are doing.

I will sign my name.

Bob Montville
Portsmouth, NH
dad: Mike Montville, University of Maryland

It's too bad that everything was removed, why not just posts that were derogatory?

There were some good and varied opinions that were posted.

My son had a bad experience with the coach of the first team and a good experience after he was traded.

People need to see different opinions on the league. The price is great compared to some of the money maker one day showcases some of the colleges run.

But, how come the link on the GSB website to the Northeast Forum disappeared when the previous thread started to get a lot of posts?

" traded? "

TRhit,

Yes traded. If you follow the league you would know that trades occur. Some weeks a player is traded to another team and then traded right back the next week, some trades stay permanent. During 2009 and 2010 the transactions were listed each week on the website. Not sure about 2011.

My son is a pitches, plays 3rd and plays first. The league thought he was good enough to play in the league, but his first coach thought he was only good enough to play in left field for a couple of innings per game. The coach had his favorites. There is no other way to say that.

My son was traded to a new team and got the opportunity to pitch each week after that and had a great experience.

Would I reccommend the league - absolutely. For the price and the game experience it is well worth it. Do I think some players get in because they know someone - yes.